Achieving filmic 'motion' rather than stuttering at DVinfo.net

Bill Edmunds · July 28th, 2014, 08:12 AM

I've been shooting 30p on my GH2/3 for a couple of years and generally enjoy the look. However, it still has a stuttering effect whenever panning the camera. When you watch TV programs shot with progressive video, they all look just like film, rather than what I produce which looks like a cross between film and video (if you get what I mean). This is especially apparent when comparing shots with camera motion. Are tv programs and films using some post production tools to enhance a filmic look? I know about color grading, but I'm specifically talking about movement that lacks that stuttering look.

Jeff Harper · July 28th, 2014, 09:11 AM

For panning in 24p, and 30p, you need to be following a subject when you pan. This will help you immensely. Even hollywood budget films shot in 24p DO look awful when they pan because it cannot be helped, so they tend to pan mostly when following subjects. The subject is fine when you follow them in 24p, but you'll notice the backgrounds will still look awful but are not noticeable because your eye is on the subject.

All in all, Bill, achieving a film look is not as simple as slapping a post production film effect on a production.

Lens and camera choice, frame rate, FILMING TECHNIQUE, and more go into a gorgeous film look.

If it was as simple as choosing 24p or 30p and using a "film effect", then the endless, mind-numbing and tedious posts about how to achieve a film look would not exist.

Dave Blackhurst · July 28th, 2014, 02:12 PM

After some early odd results with the AX100 (which only shoots 30p in 4K), I'd suggest you fiddle with shutter speed. Too fast and you don't get enough motion blur to soften up moving objects, so they look a bit jerky/stuttery/juddery. It was very noticeable having 30 very high rez "stills", very "unsmooth" where there was motion! By adjusting shutter speeds down to get a little blur during the shutter duration, everything looks quite natural!

Sometimes I think "film look" is just a term used because someone can't get their stuff shot on a Handycam to look like a big budget Hollywood production... it's not just equipment, it's craft... often specialized craft, that's why there are a "few" people rolling by on typical credits, each one part of the "secret sauce"!

Adrian Tan · July 28th, 2014, 07:08 PM

Hi Bill, to be honest, I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Any chance you could post a sample? And could I just confirm that the issue you're talking about is none of the following:

-- whip pans (you're panning at a sensible speed, right?)
-- frame rate (ie, if you shoot on 24p rather than 30p, is the effect still visible?)
-- shutter speed (you're not using a high shutter speed, right? it's just a 180-degree shutter?)
-- rolling shutter
-- something in the camera or lens causing image jumps. For instance, auto exposure/shutter priority mode on DSLRs sometimes creates image jumps. And if a lens has IS, and it's damaged, it will sometimes be overly sensitive to any sort of movement, creating little jumps if you pan it or adjust focus.

I'm not aware of TV and film crews using any special software to smooth out pans, but that's probably my ignorance talking. I know there's guidelines in the American Cinematographer Manual about how fast to pan for smooth viewing.

A final thought is that there's a remote possibility it's something to do with bitrate. But I'm pretty skeptical...

July 28th, 2014, 08:12 AM	#1
Bill Edmunds Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Conway, NH Posts: 574	Achieving filmic 'motion' rather than stuttering I've been shooting 30p on my GH2/3 for a couple of years and generally enjoy the look. However, it still has a stuttering effect whenever panning the camera. When you watch TV programs shot with progressive video, they all look just like film, rather than what I produce which looks like a cross between film and video (if you get what I mean). This is especially apparent when comparing shots with camera motion. Are tv programs and films using some post production tools to enhance a filmic look? I know about color grading, but I'm specifically talking about movement that lacks that stuttering look.

July 28th, 2014, 09:11 AM	#2
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Achieving filmic 'motion' rather than stuttering For panning in 24p, and 30p, you need to be following a subject when you pan. This will help you immensely. Even hollywood budget films shot in 24p DO look awful when they pan because it cannot be helped, so they tend to pan mostly when following subjects. The subject is fine when you follow them in 24p, but you'll notice the backgrounds will still look awful but are not noticeable because your eye is on the subject. All in all, Bill, achieving a film look is not as simple as slapping a post production film effect on a production. Lens and camera choice, frame rate, FILMING TECHNIQUE, and more go into a gorgeous film look. If it was as simple as choosing 24p or 30p and using a "film effect", then the endless, mind-numbing and tedious posts about how to achieve a film look would not exist. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

July 28th, 2014, 02:12 PM	#3
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Achieving filmic 'motion' rather than stuttering After some early odd results with the AX100 (which only shoots 30p in 4K), I'd suggest you fiddle with shutter speed. Too fast and you don't get enough motion blur to soften up moving objects, so they look a bit jerky/stuttery/juddery. It was very noticeable having 30 very high rez "stills", very "unsmooth" where there was motion! By adjusting shutter speeds down to get a little blur during the shutter duration, everything looks quite natural! Sometimes I think "film look" is just a term used because someone can't get their stuff shot on a Handycam to look like a big budget Hollywood production... it's not just equipment, it's craft... often specialized craft, that's why there are a "few" people rolling by on typical credits, each one part of the "secret sauce"!

July 28th, 2014, 07:08 PM	#4
Adrian Tan Trustee Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1,149	Re: Achieving filmic 'motion' rather than stuttering Hi Bill, to be honest, I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Any chance you could post a sample? And could I just confirm that the issue you're talking about is none of the following: -- whip pans (you're panning at a sensible speed, right?) -- frame rate (ie, if you shoot on 24p rather than 30p, is the effect still visible?) -- shutter speed (you're not using a high shutter speed, right? it's just a 180-degree shutter?) -- rolling shutter -- something in the camera or lens causing image jumps. For instance, auto exposure/shutter priority mode on DSLRs sometimes creates image jumps. And if a lens has IS, and it's damaged, it will sometimes be overly sensitive to any sort of movement, creating little jumps if you pan it or adjust focus. I'm not aware of TV and film crews using any special software to smooth out pans, but that's probably my ignorance talking. I know there's guidelines in the American Cinematographer Manual about how fast to pan for smooth viewing. A final thought is that there's a remote possibility it's something to do with bitrate. But I'm pretty skeptical...