Finally it's stopped bothering me :)

[Daniel James]

Originally Posted by Dave Partington

Crazy, so you have to be set up and in position 15 minutes before the bride arrives and not move? C'mon, how are you supposed to get the bride arriving? Silly rules.

If you have that earlier 3 camera wedding available to show on an iPad then showing what you are trying to do could help....

I read it that the camera position must be setup, i.e. ready to go not that the operator needed to be glued to the spot.

we ask for forgiveness rather than permission when possible.

Agreed, I was brought up a roman catholic, I always thought it best to ask forgiveness after the event, rather than seek permission first.... :-)

[Dave Partington]

Originally Posted by Daniel James

I read it that the camera position must be setup, i.e. ready to go not that the operator needed to be glued to the spot.

Hmmm... so if you're capturing the bride with a second camera you won't be allowed to bring that in to church when you come in to film the ceremony? This is why these rules are really not very well thought out.

[Steven Davis]

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

Peter, you figured it out. You tell the bride and let them battle it out if they so choose. It's not your fight.

Dave is right, turn off the record light and put up a second camera up anyway where it won't be seen. Here in Cincinnati we ask for forgiveness rather than permission when possible.

Peter R., I would tell the church that your barrister will not permit you to sign any such documents. Let your client know that if you are not permitted into the church you will have to skip the service. See what happens.

I agree with Jeff. One thing I do is have in my agreement, that it is the client's responsibility to clear the video/photo stuff with the church. That way there is a conversation (hopefully) between the church and client, so everyone is on the same page. But if someone comes to you with restrictions that will harm your product, I go straight to the bride and groom, no hesitation,and I'm bringing that person with me for a 'come to Jesus' meeting. Because if you don't, you will get the blame and not have a leg to stand on. I did a wedding recently, where the church ladies told the photographers to stop taking photos, at the beginning of the ceremony, I then watched the photographers beg for a good portion of the ceremony. I just stood their and shook my head thinking, some people don't care at all about others.

You have to weigh it out, if you know ahead of time, well then you're stuck, but if you're in a pinch, that's a gut decision.

[Peter Rush]

Well guys I went to the rehearsal last night and despite having signed off that badly worded form, the vicar remembered my from a few years ago and now I can place my usual 3 cameras wherever I want - A thoroughly nice chap and a good way to end this thread :)

Pete

[Rob Cantwell]

nice one!
I too was at a rehearsal last night, and typically the photog wasn't, priest was a grand fella no objections to me at all.
i've noticed in my part of the country a lot of couples will have their 'own' priest to perform the wedding, usually a relative or family friend and consequently much more accommodating to the couple's wishes. Perfect!

[Chris Hewitt]

And me...after the rehearsal, I got talking to the vicar for about half an hour regarding this subject and it basically comes down to this for them....photographers especially, who treat the church as just a venue when for the people that actually work there, it is "the house of God"....their quote and they see the disregard for their rules as a complete lack of respect and yes, to them, video and photography are basically the same thing and we do all get lumped in together. So the rules get tightened with each photographer/videographer that ignores the protocol.
I think this is pretty widespread and the vicars and priests have had enough and are reacting the only way they can short of banning us all together and to be fair, I can see their point. It's their place, after all, and we don't have any right to march in and dictate how it's going to be and then just disregard their rules....people like that make it harder for those who follow later so you can see why they get angry.
If we were filming a medical operation, we would be happy enough to go where we were told but it also came up that the clergy feel we see the church as a soft target.
To make things better in the future, I think we have to meet halfway and hope that the relationship can improve. They don't owe us anything really so maybe it might help to put ourselves in their shoes.

That vicar last night said "we would be happy to let you guys do your job in the way you want to if you just showed us a bit more respect and observed the house rules....give and take. A wedding is primarily a solemn occasion in the eyes of God, it's a church, not a film set."
And you know what, she was spot on...some of the attitudes that some of us have could be less blinkered.

I wonder if they all have a forum where they can go to town on us?

[Jeff Harper]

I feel that videographers and photogs are becoming more and more intrusive, especially the newer ones. I completely emphathize with the churches.

[Dave Blackhurst]

As much complaining as WE do about ill mannered photogs, imagine that they see it as much or more.

SO restrictive silly rules are put down to put a stop to the shenanigans... They no doubt have meetings and lunches where these sorts of thing come up...

There does need to be "respect" for both the institution and the venue, unlike a public banquet hall, that is "just a building" vs. "house of God". In fact if the building itself has history, showing a sense of awe and interest in it might gain you some cred.

Perhaps there is an answer - draft our own "set of standards" that can be provided to the couple, who can in turn provide it to the venue/church. Doesn't need to be too fancy, but can lay out the sort of techniques we use to be discreet/nearly invisible, the sorts of small and non-intrusive gear to be used, how our goal is to be in the right place at the right time, but without ANY disruption to the ceremony. Particularly since this is a problem in the UK, form up a casual "professional organization" that can represent the level of professionalism to the churches, and also give a boost to the profession?

As with many "service" type offerings, there is little or no "professional standard", licensing or education, so of course the quality of vendors varies widely... and a few bad apples can make it difficult for everyone! Sometimes all it takes is to show how it's SUPPOSED to be done!