Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under £500 to go with it?

[Craig McKenna]

Originally Posted by Dave Partington

You can buy Manfrotto quick release (QR) plate bases that you'd screw to the Sachtler QR plate. I've used these for my other gear, e.g. telepromter, to make it easier to mount a camera quickly.

Example: 577 Rapid Connect Adapter w Sliding Mounting Plate 501PL for Manfrotto HEAD HDV | eBay

Generally they don't. There's an amazing number of people about who come and go but are doing this on the side for fun and never make it to full time status (absolutely nothing wrong with doing it part time, as long as you're giving a great service).

They typically spend just a few hundred on consumer gear and think "I'll do a couple of weddings for £500 and it will pay for all the gear, then if I do another one it's all profit". They don't get insurance, they don't pay the music royalties, don't count the travel costs, they don't count their time properly, they just see pound notes and think it's awesome.

Unfortunately most of the time their videos pretty much match the price but it really screws with the local market for those that 'are' full time or those who are doing it part time but still offer a great service and a great product. OTOH, they are perhaps servicing a segment of the market that simply doesn't care about quality and just want a cheap video ;)

You don't have to wait for the live event to practice the multi cam stuff. Set all your cameras up in your garden, park, road, anywhere really. Get them all running, all recording audio then import them and see how well they sync.

Haven't used parallels for sync. I've used PluralEyes with FCP7 and Premiere Pro but now I use FCPX's own internal sync and it's worked about 99.999% of the time perfectly well and doesn't have the side effects of creating ghost files/sequences within the app like PluralEyes did.

There's a definite knack to FCPX sync, and the very first thing to do is name your camera angles (in the info panel) for each clip (you can do all from the same camera in a single operation). Once you've done that the sync just works. If you don't do that then it's all up for grabs. Once you have them sync'd (as a multi cam) editing the multiple angles is trivial. If you haven't done it before check out the plethora of free videos on YouTube or get the training from Ripple.com or LarryJordan.com or one or two others out there. It will save you hours of just mousing around and not being sure what's going on.

Thanks for that link!!

Insane with the £500 crew. I'm hoping to provide a decent video to this couple, I recommended that they get a pro, but they said they don't want to pay anything at all, as the budget is already spent. So I agreed, a bit reluctantly, but also a bit excitedly. I've always wanted to have a go!

Do pros charge £1000 per wedding minimum? That's the only way I can see anyone making any money.

I'll do the garden thing then! Record myself doing keepy ups!

That's great, I'll try the internal sync too then! PluralEyes looked really simple to use too though with FCP X, and the XML.

That's fab, I have the training by Larry Jordan. Bought it the summer before last, and I'm sure it has the multiple cam edit. I'll check when I get back on Sunday. Cheers. Larry's jokes need some work, but otherwise he's great! He's the first person I checked out.

Originally Posted by Noa

Now I"m confused, you live in PAL land and you have a gh3 and you are asking if it shoots 25p?

Same here, you have a em5 and you are asking me how their codecs are? I don't own a Olympus so wouldn't now. :)

I use 3200 iso a lot at darker receptions and 6400 if I really need to. 6400 iso still looks better then what 3200 iso did look like on my 550d.

f2.8 is fast enough for most situations but it can be a problem incase of a candlelit venue. the 12-50 Oly would be a better/cheaper solution for you since you have a Olympus em5 so you don't need to pay the high premium prize for a stabilized lens.

If you live in pal land you shouldn't, shoot 25 or 50p, mix in the 30p from your em5 in a 25 or 50p project.

Yes, sorry. GH3 wasn't close by to check, and I've not had it long. I set it to 24p and just did a few videos around the house and at friends'. I've since checked and it does. Along with 50p.

My apologies! I thought you also had an EM 5! My EM 5 is in England, and I'm currently in France, so I can't check, but I'll google and see! I just view you both as video Gods and think you know everything :)

Ok cool. I'll go to 3200 then as well and stick with the 12-50. This venue has candles, but as yet I'm unsure if it is the only lighting. My problem is that they've spent quite a bit on the photographers, so although I want to do a great job, I don't want to come in and have an effect on the lighting. Similarly with the preps, I'd love to have the bride being prepared with great natural light pouring in from the windows, but I think I'll end up following the photographers lead... Is this a legitimate worry and do you think I'm correct to do this given the circumstances and my experience?

Thanks!

[Peter Riding]

I am shooting my niece's christening as a practice, a week earlier. Should be good to have a tinker.

Don't underestimate how demanding christenings can be.

For starters it is common for more than one child to be baptised during the same ceremony. However much your inlaws might be pleased to have a video record you can be sure you will be viewed as an unwelcome intrusion by the other families. Add to that you may be in competition with pro photographers or photo enthusiasts for the best shooting positions - or they may simply block your view either intentionally or by accident. You'll still have relations taking photos even if there is only one child.

You will also have to contend with venue rules as regards when you can shoot, what you can shhot, and where you can shoot from. These can be surprisingly restrictive.

If there are no other babies to be christened and if there are no restrictive rules, you will still need to cope with low ambient light and with parents and god parents huddling together almost like a rugby scrum with no faces or baby visible to you on the outside of the group. I recommend that you try to ensure the parents god parents and priest are somewhat camera-aware so that you get a decent field of view as far as possible, especially when they are gathered at the font. Also check out whether there will be any readings and if so who by and where from.

Try to get a hidden audio recorder such as a Zoom H1 close to where reading are to be made from. Also try to get a lav and recorder onto the father especially if he will be close to the action for most of the time. You may be able to get one on the priest as well but they may well say no. Don't rely on a feed from any church deck because even if its set up and working OK the priest may not switch his house lav on for something as intimate as a christening.

Some churches are all geared up for it and even have their own wide-angle cams which can enable overseas relations to watch in real time. Others can be quite obstructive playing their "video and photography break the sanctity of the ceremony" card.

I don't think I've got any christening videos online at present but here are a couple of photo galleries that may help you anticipate what to expect:

baptism christening naming ceremony photographers videographers london brompton oratory photography video carlos ashton lamont photo galleries

christening baptism naming ceremony photographers videographers london st andrews cathedral kentish town photography video filippos ashton lamont photo galleries

baptism christening naming ceremony photographers videographers london st sophia's cathedral bayswater photography video stephanos ashton lamont photo galleries

baptism christening naming ceremony photographers london oratory brompton photography henry ashton lamont photo galleries

Be aware of the rules regarding use of commercial music especially if any of your work is to go online.

Pete

[Craig McKenna]

Thanks Pete. Those links are useful! Thanks for the tips too... It's mostly my bro doing a favour to let me video the ceremony. But he will want some pictures, which I have no problem with taking.

Should be good to set up the cameras and shoot static whilst I hover with my OM-D. If I do the garden shoot for multi-cam that might even be enough practice, and then I'll do a better job of the photos.

Thanks to everyone for your replies, I'm going to get the Sachtler, and then decide between a duzi or a second Sachtler. I'll see. Thanks again and I'll continue to enjoy your craft.

I may be back with more questions.... Hopefully you'll still be able to assist me, and I'll definitely be back with my video too!

[b]As a final question, do you storyboard before the wedding, and if so, where did you learn to do so? Any top tips for the day that an amateur may overlook in terms of basic videography (angles and lighting in particular). And I'm shooting the video to James Morrison's You Make it Real... The video will be the length of the song... Any ideas??? I realise this is a copyright breach? But it's just for their use and I'm not getting paid, so I assume it's ok to use? [\b]

Thanks again!

[Noa Put]

As a final question, do you storyboard before the wedding

If you are new to weddings THE most important part is to get the basics right, that's good focus, whitebalance, exposure and sound, It also means that you shoot every little detail and you let your camera's roll continuously during all important events even if you think it might not be necessary. Also know your gear inside out and blindfolded. Once you are comfortable with that you can move further on to sliders, steadicam, cranes, timelapse or whatever can enhance your videoproduction.

Weddings are not cimema, which means you have very little to no control of what is going on, it's a documentary on the battlefield and you either get the shot or be shot. There is no storyboarding to be done, you get a planning from the couple and that is your storyboard, a timetable with a list of events that occur during the day.

If you are lucky you get a beautiful looking (sort of brad pitt/angelina jolie look-a-likes) rich couple that marries at a awesome location, the groom plays some golf, his favorite hobby, in the morning on the golf playground that's located outside the venue, the bride prepares in a spacious room that's flooded with natural light and they get married at the beach on a windstill cloudless sunny and warm day, their friends have so many meaningful stories to tell at the ceremony and again at the reception, the bride cries when she hears his vows and the groom cries when he sees he bride for the first time in a white dress and the friends cry when they hear all these heartwarming stories, the dj supplies you with an excellent feed so your sound is topnotch and every speaker knows that a microphone is not supposed to be held at waistheight, in the venue they flood the dancefloor with white high quality led lights that don't flicker and maybe if you are really lucky, there is no photog around to block any of your camera's.

This will enable you to edit in a way that will get you close to what many refer to as a "cinema" and a "story", you get the verbal base to carry your visuals, which ofcourse are stunning as well unless you mess them up by not having your basics right.

If you are not lucky you get non of the above, which are the kind of weddings I do now and then and even tough it may appear I have nothing to work with I can assure you I do whatever I can to get my basics right, because if I do, I will always have a happy client.

I don't want to sound patronizing but it's just some good advise from someone who has learned the hard way when he started out, as a solo shooter a good preparation is key to everything you do during the day and you need backup for every single piece of equipment you use, a slider motion or a steadicammove is worthless if you messed up the audio recordings or if your footage is out of focus or worse, that you missed the shot.

My suggestion stays; leave all the fancy stuff at home and master the basics first, just keep your eyes open, stay alert, keep it all light and simple and follow the day as it comes along, you WILL make mistakes the first weddings you do, just make sure you try not to make them again. And don't be frustrated when after many weddings you still mess up once in a while, we all do, only remember that unlike in cinema, there is no second take. :)

[Craig McKenna]

Thanks Noa, perfect advice! Appreciate it :)

I know my cameras pretty well now, the GH3 has been out with me all week in the south of France and I already know my other two well. I am thinking to get the two tripods, which I think are necessary for the vows? And then practice, practice, practice. Fortunately, there's an evening the night before where I could practise... Quite looking forward to that too.

Thanks again!!

[Craig McKenna]

Hi All,

I've decided to purchase the sachtler tripod, as mentioned in this thread, but I'm also getting the Cinevate Duzi Slider.

I want to know which Manfrotto Tripod Head you would get to fit the Cinevate Duzi Slider, so that I can take the camera from my Manfrotto Monopod and attach it using the quick release plate.

Does anyone know of the cheapest Manfrotto head that would enable this?

Thank you for all of your help so far!!! I am about to purchase the Sachtler and the Duzi, and then it will be a case of getting a cheap recorder to please the groom, but as my single delivery is a four minute video to music, sound is not going to help this production.

Thanks again!

P.s. should I get the ground level, or mid-level spreader for the Sachtler M?

[Danny O'Neill]

Mid level. Churches love putting you in the choir with steps in the way.

[Craig McKenna]

Thanks Danny...

Can anyone recommend a head for the Duzi, which will enable me to join the Manfrotto Quick Release plate to it (from the monopod)?

Also, is this an OK place to buy the Sachtler?

Thanks again!

http://cvp.com/index.php?t=product/s...pod-mid_system
Or here:
http://www.visuals.co.uk/salesProduc...DUCTID=2842189

[Dave Partington]

Originally Posted by Craig McKenna

Thanks Danny...

Can anyone recommend a head for the Duzi, which will enable me to join the Manfrotto Quick Release plate to it (from the monopod)?

Also, is this an OK place to buy the Sachtler?

Thanks again!

Sachtler ACE M MS System includes Ace Fluid Head, Ace Tripod with mid-level spreader and bag (p/n 1001)
Or here:
SACHTLER System Ace M MS - System Ace M MS Ace M fluid head + tripod Ace ...

I've bought from CVP many times and also seen them at several trade shows. They're a real company if that's what you're worried about. I have no experience of the other one.

Small head for the slider would be the 701HDV.
Manfrotto 701HDV (701-HDV) Pro Fluid Video Mini Head

[Edit:] Oops, looks like the 701HDV has been replaced so just click on the link to the new one.

Definitely get the mid level spreader and not the ground level version of the tripod.

[Craig McKenna]

Originally Posted by Dave Partington

I've bought from CVP many times and also seen them at several trade shows. They're a real company if that's what you're worried about. I have no experience of the other one.

Small head for the slider would be the 701HDV.
Manfrotto 701HDV (701-HDV) Pro Fluid Video Mini Head

[Edit:] Oops, looks like the 701HDV has been replaced so just click on the link to the new one.

Definitely get the mid level spreader and not the ground level version of the tripod.

Thanks Dave! CVP it is! That is all I was worried about, I'm always nervous when buying online, as I only ever seem to use Amazon...

I've got them both in the basket! Finally, can the Cinevate Duzi Slider just attach to the Sachtler Tripod or do I need a connection kit of some kind???

Thank you so much for all of your help! Without this forum, I would have spent many more hours than I already have researching everything possible! I'm really excited for the wedding now, and feel I couldn't have done more to be prepared. I know that it won't be a masterpiece, seeing as it's my first go... but I'm trying.

[Dave Partington]

Originally Posted by Craig McKenna

Finally, can the Cinevate Duzi Slider just attach to the Sachtler Tripod or do I need a connection kit of some kind???

What ever you want to mount you'll need the appropriate quick release plate. If it's a sacthler head then you'll need a sachtler quick release plate on the bottom of the Duzi. If your Sachtler has a Manfrotto adapter then use a Manfrotto quick release plate. Hopefully you get the idea :)

[Craig McKenna]

Originally Posted by Dave Partington

What ever you want to mount you'll need the appropriate quick release plate. If it's a sacthler head then you'll need a sachtler quick release plate on the bottom of the Duzi. If your Sachtler has a Manfrotto adapter then use a Manfrotto quick release plate. Hopefully you get the idea :)

Hmmm... I don't think I do... but I think it will click once the equipment arrives...

I'll have a Sachtler head... and it'll need to connect to the Duzi via a Manfrotto Quick Release Plate? Like this one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Manfrotto-20...nfrotto+plates

I'm confused!!! Sorry to keep bothering you, but if you can ellaborate, I'd be really thankful. I'm heading to the venue on Saturday, and was going to try out my gear.

[Dave Partington]

Originally Posted by Craig McKenna

Hmmm... I don't think I do... but I think it will click once the equipment arrives...

I'll have a Sachtler head... and it'll need to connect to the Duzi via a Manfrotto Quick Release Plate? Like this one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Manfrotto-20...nfrotto+plates

I'm confused!!! Sorry to keep bothering you, but if you can ellaborate, I'd be really thankful. I'm heading to the venue on Saturday, and was going to try out my gear.

Noooo.....

If you have a Sachtler head then what ever you mount with need a Sacthler quick release plate. End of story.

If you want to be able to take your camera from (say) your mono pod or the head on the Duzi and mount it on your Sacthler then you'll either need to remove the Manroto mounting plate you've been using on the camera for the monopod / slider and fit the Sacthler plate, OR you'll need to use a Manfroto adapter on the Sacthler plate so that it accepts the Manftotto QR plate. The same goes for mounting the slider on the Sachtler, you'll need some way of mounting it.

The one you linked to is a photo plate and not suitable for video.

The Manfrotto plates look like this (this will be on the mono pod and small head you're buying)
Manfrotto 501PL Accessory Plate: Amazon.co.uk: Camera & Photo

This is the 577 R adapter that 'could' mount to your Sachler QR plate and allow you to slide in the Manfrotto plates "if that's what you want to do".
http://www.amazon.co.uk/MANFROTTO-57...Y9S7TBHJ8SB2X5

One thing I learned a very long time ago is not to mix and match plates because you'll always want to mount a camera with one type of plate on a tripod with a different plate and it's a PITA to have to keep changing them.

Sachtler and Manfrotto (and just about everyone) uses different QR plates. We went all Manfrotto to simplify things, but if you are going with the Sachtler then you'll need to make compromises by either having different plates or by using the Manfrotto 577QR plate to adapter everything else to the Sachtler head.

I'm not a big fan of the 577 QR, even though we have two or three of them. The lever on the right side bumps up against the bottom of the camera when tightening and can be a problem to undo if it's too tight because you can't get much leverage on it.

[Craig McKenna]

Originally Posted by Dave Partington

Noooo.....

If you have a Sachtler head then what ever you mount with need a Sacthler quick release plate. End of story.

If you want to be able to take your camera from (say) your mono pod or the head on the Duzi and mount it on your Sacthler then you'll either need to remove the Manroto mounting plate you've been using on the camera for the monopod / slider and fit the Sacthler plate, OR you'll need to use a Manfroto adapter on the Sacthler plate so that it accepts the Manftotto QR plate. The same goes for mounting the slider on the Sachtler, you'll need some way of mounting it.

The one you linked to is a photo plate and not suitable for video.

The Manfrotto plates look like this (this will be on the mono pod and small head you're buying)
Manfrotto 501PL Accessory Plate: Amazon.co.uk: Camera & Photo

This is the 577 R adapter that 'could' mount to your Sachler QR plate and allow you to slide in the Manfrotto plates "if that's what you want to do".
http://www.amazon.co.uk/MANFROTTO-57...Y9S7TBHJ8SB2X5

One thing I learned a very long time ago is not to mix and match plates because you'll always want to mount a camera with one type of plate on a tripod with a different plate and it's a PITA to have to keep changing them.

Sachtler and Manfrotto (and just about everyone) uses different QR plates. We went all Manfrotto to simplify things, but if you are going with the Sachtler then you'll need to make compromises by either having different plates or by using the Manfrotto 577QR plate to adapter everything else to the Sachtler head.

I'm not a big fan of the 577 QR, even though we have two or three of them. The lever on the right side bumps up against the bottom of the camera when tightening and can be a problem to undo if it's too tight because you can't get much leverage on it.

Thanks Dave!!! This makes a lot more sense now...

So given that it's a hassle, is there a Manfrotto Video Tripod that can hold up against the Sachtler in your opinion? I agree that it sounds like a hassle and would be interested in hearing your advice if I was to switch from the Sachtler... if not, at least there's a plate that you've provided and I'll pick that up too!

I'll buy tomorrow instead of tonight. Cheers!

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Dave Partington

Sachtler and Manfrotto (and just about everyone) uses different QR plates.

Eventhough the plate from my sachtler ace is twice as long as the plate of my manfrotto 501hdv I can exchange and use both plates on both tripodheads.