Not one has booked a short form for this year??

[Steve Bleasdale]

Hey guys, short form, medium format, long form. 19 bookings for 2014 and not one has wanted a short form (mine 30 minutes long).. The feedback is we want to see as much as possible?
Yes i have told them at the end of the film you will get all the speeches and ceremony, but still the same no i like your medium format better.
Anyone else getting this? Steve

[Danny O'Neill]

Hi Steve, what are you charging for each? Same?

Try this, put the price of the short form up. Also, when people get in touch are you showing them an example of a short form, long form or both?

We used to offer both and in a year only 1 went for the long form. We then dropped it totally and our new sister studio is also short form only (A Hint of Mint Ltd | Wedding Video / Films | Wedding Videographer based near London UK).

Maybe a regional thing?

[Dave Partington]

Originally Posted by Steve Bleasdale

Hey guys, short form, medium format, long form. 19 bookings for 2014 and not one has wanted a short form (mine 30 minutes long).. The feedback is we want to see as much as possible?
Yes i have told them at the end of the film you will get all the speeches and ceremony, but still the same no i like your medium format better.
Anyone else getting this? Steve

ALL THE TIME Steve, all the time. Like you I don't have a single short form only video booking this year.

Maybe it's northern brides who just want more for less, I really don't know, though I've talked to a few people around the country and they are saying the same thing.

Persuading people that they don't want/need absolutely every minute of the ceremony and every minute of the speeches can sometimes (actually often) be an up hill battle. The whole reason they want a video is not the amazing highlights, great as they are, it's because they want the memories of the day in full and to see things they missed, even in the ceremony. If we choose to edit that bit out they'd never see it and they hate the thought of missing anything.

From recent inquiries, people are definitely looking for cheaper packages and seem more willing to give up the cinematic short form / highlights / trailers than they are the full ceremony & full speeches.

While it's true that people will can only buy what you sell, so tell them what you want to sell and nothing more, sometimes you just have to sell what they want to buy and get on with it.

I think the majority of this industry got really hung up on the DSLR shallow DOF effect wow videos we see posted and forgot what the majority of brides in this area at least actually want.

Producing the wow videos is great for morale, a real sense of satisfaction and a job well done, but if you still have to put food on the table at the end of it then selling what they want to buy is how it's done.

[Noa Put]

My packages are short form only but they can choose to have the ceremony or long speeches completely separately and I charge extra for that, they always choose the extra parts that include the full coverage of longer events.

[Steve Bleasdale]

Originally Posted by Danny O'Neill

Hi Steve, what are you charging for each? Same?

Try this, put the price of the short form up. Also, when people get in touch are you showing them an example of a short form, long form or both?

We used to offer both and in a year only 1 went for the long form. We then dropped it totally and our new sister studio is also short form only (A Hint of Mint Ltd | Wedding Video / Films | Wedding Videographer based near London UK).

Maybe a regional thing?

Maybe Danny I think bit is regional! With respect to liverpool they are a northern hard breed and want a lot for their money! Fir sure I sit them down and they still book medium to long!

[Steve Bleasdale]

Originally Posted by Dave Partington

ALL THE TIME Steve, all the time. Like you I don't have a single short form only video booking this year.

Maybe it's northern brides who just want more for less, I really don't know, though I've talked to a few people around the country and they are saying the same thing.

Persuading people that they don't want/need absolutely every minute of the ceremony and every minute of the speeches can sometimes (actually often) be an up hill battle. The whole reason they want a video is not the amazing highlights, great as they are, it's because they want the memories of the day in full and to see things they missed, even in the ceremony. If we choose to edit that bit out they'd never see it and they hate the thought of missing anything.

From recent inquiries, people are definitely looking for cheaper packages and seem more willing to give up the cinematic short form / highlights / trailers than they are the full ceremony & full speeches.

While it's true that people will can only buy what you sell, so tell them what you want to sell and nothing more, sometimes you just have to sell what they want to buy and get on with it.

I think the majority of this industry got really hung up on the DSLR shallow DOF effect wow videos we see posted and forgot what the majority of brides in this area at least actually want.

Producing the wow videos is great for morale, a real sense of satisfaction and a job well done, but if you still have to put food on the table at the end of it then selling what they want to buy is how it's done.

Good points Dave!!
In the end my medium forms are very cinematic and I do stipulate I don't do hyms and other bits so I am ok with the medium formats, it is slightly easier to edit than short form as you know! Ah well keep plodding on! If I go all short form I probably would have no orders so I should be grateful!! Cheers guys

[Roger Gunkel]

This is interesting, as I have just come in from a visit to a potential client and this is the first thread I have looked at.

This particular couple had contacted me by email and tried to beat me down in price, which I refused to do and explained my reasons. They emailed me again and asked for a meeting which I had this evening, an hours drive both ways. They made me a cup of tea, I played with their dog and their 3 year old sat on my lap while we went through his Toy Story figures. After about 30 minutes of general chatter, I suggested that we talked about their wedding. After asking me various questions about what they would get and looking intently at an example, the Bride suddenly said 'That is refreshing to see and hear!' I asked her what she meant and they said that they had had 2 other video companies visiting and 4 others sent demos, and all but one offered very polished film like videos ranging from 15-30 minutes as their main package. The remaining company offered various packages and prices covering different parts of the day. None offered what they wanted, which was a documentary video of their whole day, showing them, their friends and family enjoying their special day. I happily came away with a request for a booking contract which I gave them after asking them to be sure before signing it.

Based on previous experience, I am very confident that they will sign and return it over the next couple of days. It does help to reinforce my long held belief that in the UK, those companies that are predominantly offering short form are competing for a small part of an already small wedding video market. That is in no way trying to denigrate those that offer superb short form with high technical and artistic values and indeed many that do are fully booked, but I have not even been asked if I can do them at all this last few years, so have to assume that certainly in my area, there is little demand.

Roger

[Chris Harding]

I'm definitely also with Roger here with regards to what the bride wants.
Despite being at risk of getting slaughtered here, I have to ask if anyone actually does ask what the bride wants or has the short form cinematic video been "designed" by videographers to show off their creative talents and make them look artistic ???

I admit that the cinematic style is very pleasant to look at and all in all it's simply a product and with adequate skill anyone can sell a product. It may not capture all the memories that a bride needs but with sufficient salesmanship she could be convinced that this is all she needs.

If I was a bride and wanted memories of my wedding I'm sure I would want everything captured not just fleeting moments chosen by the videographer.

So I do need to ask the question now ... If you only do short form what is the reason ..Is it for satisfaction of your own creative skills or does it make you as a videographer look impressive or is it simply easier (or less time consuming) to shoot. As already explained by Roger, it seems that most brides don't want half of their memories left out.

Chris

[Tim Lewis]

Chris, your comments remind me of "don't sell the sausage, sell the sizzle".

The Cinematic form may be more of the sizzle. But do brides actually want the sizzle or the sausage? Like you say, has anyone asked them?

[Chris Harding]

Hi Tim

I'm not saying I'm right at all ..I could be very wrong but I would have assumed that if you want memories do you want just fleeting ones??? I have yet to seem a reason for short fancy videos being offered .... are they to impress the bride? or do they make the video guy look impressive?? I'm simply saying that are brides happy with short form and are those memories enough?

Chris

[Don Bloom]

I started doing short form edits back in the 90s. Probably about 97 after hearing about a guy in New Jersey that did them. (Robert Allan Erhlich). I did them to keep myself from going insane. Remember back them we delivered VHS tape finished product. Once I got into Non lineal editing I stopped delivering long form and went with straight short form. My business dropped off. Everyone loved the short form but also wanted the long form. since I started with the long form anyway to get to the short form it wasn't a big deal to deliver both. So that's what I started to do again and my business improved.
In my area while there weren't too many people doing short form it seemed that those that were and are today DO deliver both short form (this can be up to 30 minutes which is what mine generally were) AND long form which was nothing more than a cleaned up version of the RAW footage. Some though like myself figured since I was already into it why not make it right. I charged for it of course but keeping in mind that while Chicago is a very large market place it is also one of the lowest priced markets for video. No clue as to why...not important to this conversation.
IMO if you're going to charge big and deliver a great short form product why not take a little extra time and give them the cleaned up RAW footage (long form) so no one can say anything to you. They got it all! Done and done!

[Byron Jones]

Don, I'm not too far away from you and it is the same here. They want a shorter version to show friends and family, but they want the whole thing, too, for themselves. All of my clients originally requested the full show through the end of the reception. Only a couple had to cut out the end of the reception for financial reasons. My nights are normally late as they pay to keep me recording until the end. Some even pay extra for all the raw footage... In light of some recent news, I always watch AND listen to all the raw footage before giving to a client. No reason to ruin someone's day over a drunk comment from a guest or a "not to bright" photographer's second shooter.

[Steve Bleasdale]

Some great points guys thanks for joining the discussion. I feel better now...

[Don Bloom]

Byron said...I always watch AND listen to all the raw footage before giving to a client. No reason to ruin someone's day over a drunk comment from a guest or a "not to bright" photographer's second shooter

Absolutely. It's a 100% PITA to do it but I've caught a few things that I didn't hear in the headphones during the shoot. I always tried to mark down some sort of landmark if I heard something, timecode, scene description something so I could be aware of it during editing. Some people forget or don't care that they're standing next to me and say something that's inappropriate. Not so much during the ceremony but certainly during the dancing at the reception. Luckily I've only missed 1 thing and the B&G didn't care but I always tried to catch those things. Nothing can ruin your reputation faster than leaving inappropriate remarks in the final version.

[Roger Gunkel]

Just thought you might be interested in a footnote to my earlier post about the couple I visited last night. I received this email at 8.00am this morning.......

--------------------------------------
'Good morning

You will pleased to here that we have chosen to use you for our wedding next year, we like the style and have not seen anyone else do it the way you do. Booking form is in the post and should arrive soon.

Mark'
--------------------------------------

I am delighted, but it does reinforce my thoughts about what couples actually want. You can sell a 'cinematic'
short form, but in my opinion it is in the same luxury item category as chocolate fountains, ice sculptures, etc. It looks great, is romantic and has the wow factor, but will still leave the client with no real record of what their day was actually all about. To a couple embarking on planning a wedding, most really have no idea what they actually want and can easily be drawn to things that have a high wow factor. The long form has no particular wow factor, but if done properly is a true record that they will regularly view in the future as a piece of family history for them and future generations.

Roger