Subcontracted video rights at DVinfo.net

Sean Rowe · November 27th, 2013, 03:58 PM

Hey guys

So i was subcontracted by a entertainment company that supplies Dj's and lighting for weddings. I was paid to shoot the wedding and edit it like it was my own wedding. In the beginning of the highlight video on my Vimeo PAge i put "the entertainment company present" a "my company name film" and at the end of the video i put their information and mine also. The Company told me putting my information at the end is a no no. I understand why they wouldn't like it because they want clients to book video through them. Do you think there is a way we both can get credit from the video?

Dave Partington · November 27th, 2013, 04:13 PM

If you were there on a 'work for hire' basis, they probably own it all and you don't own anything. You did the work for the money you were being paid and that's the end of it. If you weren't there on a work-for-hire basis then you may have some claim to adding your name to the credits.

The question is….. what does the contract say?

Sean Rowe · November 27th, 2013, 04:17 PM

Well we didnt sign a contract it was a verbal agreement, Hey man can you shoot this wedding it pays $XXX . thats it

Chris Medico · November 27th, 2013, 04:28 PM

If someone brings you a job it is impolite to put your brand on it unless that was part of the agreement up front. You may be burning a bridge if you do that.

Additionally I would strongly suggest creating a contract for your next subcontracted job spelling out those details.

Sean Rowe · November 27th, 2013, 04:32 PM

I agree and will definitely consider it. Im gonna look up some contract for this type of thing, or do any of you have one?

Dave Partington · November 27th, 2013, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Rowe

Well we didnt sign a contract it was a verbal agreement, Hey man can you shoot this wedding it pays $XXX . thats it

Next question - who's public liability insurance were you working under, yours or his? If it was his then it sounds even more like work for hire, which makes it his, not yours.

Contracts are there for a reason. Too many people go ahead and do things on a hand shake assuming that contracts aren't needed. Most of the time they're never referenced again and are only really needed when things go wrong. When a problem comes up (as this has) it's too late to try to write the contract.

Contracts cost money, along with insurance and business taxes and everything else that goes along with running a real company. That's why proper companies need to charge more. They aren't ripping people off, they are just covering the costs of doing it right.

Put this one down to experience and education. No education worth having ever comes for free ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Rowe

I agree and will definitely consider it. Im gonna look up some contract for this type of thing, or do any of you have one?

Of course we have one. If cost us money to get it too.

Contracts are floating around the web, but realise that different legal jurisdictions have different requirements, so you can't just take one and assume it works. Also, business to business contracts are often different to business to consumer contracts where consumers have a lot more rights and protection. If you get it wrong with a consumer (i.e. bride & groom) then they have a lot more law on their side than yours.

Don Bloom · November 27th, 2013, 05:57 PM

I've shot weddings for a guy I've known for 14 years. No paperwork (one of the very few I know well enough to know he's not going to screw me) and when I shoot one of his jobs, I work for him. I have HIS company's business cards and if someone asks for a card, I give them HIS not mine. Why? Well morals if nothing else. He spent the ad money and the time to secure the client and asked (hired) me to shoot the job so I'm representing HIS company.

His money, his company, his client so my name is nowhere on the video.

Now granted we've worked together for a long time and trust one another 100% (again, one of the very few I work with without paperwork) but he knows what he gets when I do a job for him and I know the check won't bounce and I, 100%, do not believe in client stealing in any form. Not saying you were just saying that for ME, anything that puts MY name in front of the client is not something I do.

That's just me!

Charles Newcomb · November 27th, 2013, 07:37 PM

Obviously you're an old geezer like me. You've got what they used to call scruples. We're a dying breed for the most part, but there are some younger folks who've posted on DVInfo who give me hope all is not lost.

I'm going to guess you served in the military, too.

Happy Turkey Day,

Charles "Doc" Newcomb

Don Bloom · November 27th, 2013, 10:40 PM

Charles,
Yep old geezer is correct. As for scruples, I've heard there's a pill for that. I'll ask my doctor the next time I see him. ;-)

Yep, 3 years-2 in RVN way back when.

Seriously though, those that have been around for a bit longer have been able to do that by having morals, scruples and some business sense. Steal a client and BAM! you're done. Toast, not going to get work again. Word gets around real fast. Do it the right way and that word also gets around, not as fast but in a much better light.

I too have seen an influx of young people getting into the business that have the morals, scruples and good business sense that seemed to be lacking for a while and that's a good thing.

Happy T day back at ya!
From one geezer to another! ;-)

Christian Brown · December 14th, 2013, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Bloom

I've shot weddings for a guy I've known for 14 years. No paperwork (one of the very few I know well enough to know he's not going to screw me) and when I shoot one of his jobs, I work for him. I have HIS company's business cards and if someone asks for a card, I give them HIS not mine. Why? Well morals if nothing else. He spent the ad money and the time to secure the client and asked (hired) me to shoot the job so I'm representing HIS company.

Great input from Don. I hire contractors and assistants frequently, and I expect the same from them. Freelancers who can't stick to this don't get hired back.

In the final product, all contributing parties are often (but not always) listed in the credits, but it is their individual names, not their company. Some projects don't have any credits.

Paul R Johnson · December 14th, 2013, 02:04 PM

I must admit I can't understand this kind of thing. Like others, when you do this kind of job, you're essentially 'them', not yourself. Look at the Broadcasters - you might find the credits saying "and XYZ production for the BBC", but virtually all the production people are freelance, and the only time you see another business name will be in the form of Editing - The Edit Company, Titles - the Font Shop etc. Where you see names, it because the contract they had is aimed at the person, not a business. None of these would feature the business name or logo in the body of the programme.

Even if you had a verbal contract, this could have been spoken about. I like the bit about business cards - this is the key. The name on the cards is who's job it is, and it would be very bad form to hand out your own cards at am event!

November 27th, 2013, 03:58 PM	#1
Sean Rowe Tourist Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 4	Subcontracted video rights Hey guys So i was subcontracted by a entertainment company that supplies Dj's and lighting for weddings. I was paid to shoot the wedding and edit it like it was my own wedding. In the beginning of the highlight video on my Vimeo PAge i put "the entertainment company present" a "my company name film" and at the end of the video i put their information and mine also. The Company told me putting my information at the end is a no no. I understand why they wouldn't like it because they want clients to book video through them. Do you think there is a way we both can get credit from the video?

November 27th, 2013, 04:13 PM	#2
Dave Partington Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: York, England Posts: 1,323	Re: Subcontracted video rights If you were there on a 'work for hire' basis, they probably own it all and you don't own anything. You did the work for the money you were being paid and that's the end of it. If you weren't there on a work-for-hire basis then you may have some claim to adding your name to the credits. The question is….. what does the contract say? __________________ Qualified UAV Pilot with CAA PFAW Aerial Photo / Aerial Video \| Corporate Video Production

November 27th, 2013, 04:17 PM	#3
Sean Rowe Tourist Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 4	Re: Subcontracted video rights Well we didnt sign a contract it was a verbal agreement, Hey man can you shoot this wedding it pays $XXX . thats it

November 27th, 2013, 04:28 PM	#4
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: Subcontracted video rights If someone brings you a job it is impolite to put your brand on it unless that was part of the agreement up front. You may be burning a bridge if you do that. Additionally I would strongly suggest creating a contract for your next subcontracted job spelling out those details. __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

November 27th, 2013, 04:32 PM	#5
Sean Rowe Tourist Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 4	Re: Subcontracted video rights I agree and will definitely consider it. Im gonna look up some contract for this type of thing, or do any of you have one?

November 27th, 2013, 05:57 PM	#7
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Re: Subcontracted video rights I've shot weddings for a guy I've known for 14 years. No paperwork (one of the very few I know well enough to know he's not going to screw me) and when I shoot one of his jobs, I work for him. I have HIS company's business cards and if someone asks for a card, I give them HIS not mine. Why? Well morals if nothing else. He spent the ad money and the time to secure the client and asked (hired) me to shoot the job so I'm representing HIS company. His money, his company, his client so my name is nowhere on the video. Now granted we've worked together for a long time and trust one another 100% (again, one of the very few I work with without paperwork) but he knows what he gets when I do a job for him and I know the check won't bounce and I, 100%, do not believe in client stealing in any form. Not saying you were just saying that for ME, anything that puts MY name in front of the client is not something I do. That's just me! __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

November 27th, 2013, 07:37 PM	#8
Charles Newcomb Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Salida, Colorado Posts: 561	Re: Subcontracted video rights Obviously you're an old geezer like me. You've got what they used to call scruples. We're a dying breed for the most part, but there are some younger folks who've posted on DVInfo who give me hope all is not lost. I'm going to guess you served in the military, too. Happy Turkey Day, Charles "Doc" Newcomb

November 27th, 2013, 10:40 PM	#9
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Re: Subcontracted video rights Charles, Yep old geezer is correct. As for scruples, I've heard there's a pill for that. I'll ask my doctor the next time I see him. ;-) Yep, 3 years-2 in RVN way back when. Seriously though, those that have been around for a bit longer have been able to do that by having morals, scruples and some business sense. Steal a client and BAM! you're done. Toast, not going to get work again. Word gets around real fast. Do it the right way and that word also gets around, not as fast but in a much better light. I too have seen an influx of young people getting into the business that have the morals, scruples and good business sense that seemed to be lacking for a while and that's a good thing. Happy T day back at ya! From one geezer to another! ;-) __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

December 14th, 2013, 02:04 PM	#11
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: Subcontracted video rights I must admit I can't understand this kind of thing. Like others, when you do this kind of job, you're essentially 'them', not yourself. Look at the Broadcasters - you might find the credits saying "and XYZ production for the BBC", but virtually all the production people are freelance, and the only time you see another business name will be in the form of Editing - The Edit Company, Titles - the Font Shop etc. Where you see names, it because the contract they had is aimed at the person, not a business. None of these would feature the business name or logo in the body of the programme. Even if you had a verbal contract, this could have been spoken about. I like the bit about business cards - this is the key. The name on the cards is who's job it is, and it would be very bad form to hand out your own cards at am event!