720 or 1080 for HD Delivery at DVinfo.net

Peter Rush · May 3rd, 2013, 08:55 AM

Hi All - I'm not noticing a massive difference between sequences edited at 720 vs 1080 either from my premiere timeline or playing from USB stick on any of my HD monitors.

If you say you deliver in HD then should HD be Full HD at 1080 or would 720 suffice?

Shooting and editing in 720 would give me the option of 50fps from my 5d and GoPro so I'm tempted.

Pete

Nigel Barker · May 3rd, 2013, 09:15 AM

If you can't see the difference then your TV isn't big enough or you are sitting too far away:-)

Online videos on Vimeo we do 720p mainly because you don't know how fast the viewers broadband will be but for Blu-ray it's got to be Full HD 1080p.

James Manford · May 3rd, 2013, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

If you can't see the difference then your TV isn't big enough or you are sitting too far away:-)

Online videos on Vimeo we do 720p mainly because you don't know how fast the viewers broadband will be but for Blu-ray it's got to be Full HD 1080p.

+1

You can not advertise FULL HD and deliver 720p. It's morally wrong. But ... then again, it's your business.

If you think you can get away with it, then go for it.

Generally, this rule applies ...

720p looks perfect up to 32" anything bigger than a 32" and you will be able to tell the difference between 720p & 1080p

Katie Fasel · May 3rd, 2013, 09:48 AM

We switched starting this season from delivering 720p to 1080, and I see a dramatic difference. Not only in our blurays, but in the DVDs as well.

Peter Riding · May 3rd, 2013, 09:59 AM

I do entirely 1080 partly because that makes them rather more future proof now the 4000 is just around the corner and before long players will need to upscale to it.

I supply instructions with my MP4 files advising clients that if their playback device chokes on it they should try the manufacturers software to do a downconversion. The files play fine on my Ipad3 and Galaxy S3.

Pete

David Stoneburner · May 3rd, 2013, 12:58 PM

I think it depends on where the product is going. First of all you say you are doing HD then 720p is HD. If you advertise Full HD, then you provide 1080. I don't do weddings anymore but I do a lot of events. If I have a client that wants a video for their website, then I provide them 720 for two reasons. 1. The quality is great and it comes in at a smaller file size. 2. As listed above 720 has better reliability for web playback depending on the viewers connection speed. I still provide them a 1080 master copy for future proofing.

Tim Polster · May 5th, 2013, 07:09 AM

If you are shooting in 24p or 30p, you might as well get the original in the highest resolution. Although 30p is not a Blu-ray standard format. If you are shooting action events then 720p50/60 is perfectly fine. I think of the framerate first when choosing a shooting format. If you have a 1080p60 camera, then shoot everything in 60p and output in your delivery resolution & framerate. Best of both worlds.

On a Blu-ray, I do not see that much difference between the two. But my 1080p Pana plasma might be very good at scaling. This varies from TV to TV.

Paul R Johnson · May 5th, 2013, 08:44 AM

With HD pixel counts spiralling away, as far as I'm concerned, HD is the better version of SD. That is all. Sticking superlatives or descriptors with fancy names in front of it aren't technical. Full HD may well be an accepted definition for 1080p but for how long. It also is really a definition of a format at a moment in time, so it is really a format definition, not a quality definition. You can have a clip of video sitting as a file on a memory stick in Full HD, but it might have come from a 20 year old VHS tape. Clearly, the image is poorer, but the picture standard is still Full HD. Some 720 cameras will produce better images than 1080 cameras - we see this with things like GoPros once the light has gone in.

So for me, HD is simply HD and some of my stuff is 720 some 1080, and I don't have an issue with formats at all - just quality. 720 from a camera with excellent glass and 3 sensors looks better to me on my big screen than 1080 from a 1/3" 1080 camera.

Steve Slattery · May 7th, 2013, 03:06 AM

720 from a camera with excellent glass and 3 sensors looks better to me on my big screen than 1080 from a 1/3" 1080 camera.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excellent point. 720P is equiv to 1080i and I doubt most clients will see the difference. I read recently an article on the benefit of 4K and how it wouldnt be mathematically possible to se the difference on anything over 65" screen (dependant on viewing distance). They stated that most home set ups cant see the difference between 720 and 1080 because of the distance/screen size. Personally I no longer sell blue-rays and instead sell the HD file at 720p and it looks great, I do it because there are still quite a few media players on the market that cant handle 1080p.

Steve

Noa Put · May 7th, 2013, 04:23 AM

"full hd" and "hd ready" are just marketing terms, my wife's pocketcamera can do "full hd" but with a lens as large as a eurocent and a bitrate of a few megs you know what to expect in terms of imagequality, but it's full hd! :)
Like Paul said, 720p can look better then 1080p depending on the camera used,

Not sure how the 5d does in 720p 50p but my t2i takes a resolution hit that way and you can see the quality difference with 1080p, that might be a issue if you deliver in that format and if your client has a very big lcd screen.

Greg Fiske · May 7th, 2013, 04:15 PM

Dslr's do not resolve more than 500 lines, so there is no discernible difference between 720p and 1080p. But like the previous posters said, it varies by the tv. On my panasonic, I've tested it and can't see any difference. 720p allows you to creatively crop in post and to stabilize. By default vimeo downscales to 720p.

Vince Baker · May 14th, 2013, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Manford

+1

You can not advertise FULL HD and deliver 720p. It's morally wrong. But ... then again, it's your business.

If you think you can get away with it, then go for it.

Generally, this rule applies ...

720p looks perfect up to 32" anything bigger than a 32" and you will be able to tell the difference between 720p & 1080p

I have to agree with James, if you state full HD, supply full HD.... there is always someone that will look at what you have supplied and no that it is not what you have published....

If you see no difference then for the web fair enough, but just let them know what you are doing...

I remember supplying something some time ago stating 2.1 sound, it was simply stereo and they picked me up on it.... just not worth the bad publicity. IMOA.

Dave Blackhurst · May 16th, 2013, 01:25 PM

I can see the difference between a "720" HD panel and a 1080 HD panel, at 24" screen sizes... I bought a TV advertised as "full HD", and showing 1080 on the box, but it had a 720 panel when I researched, it was returned immediately as it looked like poo.

As far as it goes, I'd recommend ALWAYS stay at the highest quality possible as far into the workflow as possible. Of course if you're dropping old SD footage into a HD "container", it's still going to look like SD footage...

It's quite possible, maybe even probable, that most viewers won't spot or know the difference, but more and more people are beginning to see and expect better "HD" quality as more TV's are properly set up, and HD content is more standard. You could get away with bad quality while in the transitionary period, and I still see some clearly "SD" quality commercials and such here and there, but they really stick out!

May 3rd, 2013, 08:55 AM	#1
Peter Rush Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: UK/Yorkshire Posts: 2,069	720 or 1080 for HD Delivery Hi All - I'm not noticing a massive difference between sequences edited at 720 vs 1080 either from my premiere timeline or playing from USB stick on any of my HD monitors. If you say you deliver in HD then should HD be Full HD at 1080 or would 720 suffice? Shooting and editing in 720 would give me the option of 50fps from my 5d and GoPro so I'm tempted. Pete

May 3rd, 2013, 09:15 AM	#2
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	Re: 720 or 1080 for HD Delivery If you can't see the difference then your TV isn't big enough or you are sitting too far away:-) Online videos on Vimeo we do 720p mainly because you don't know how fast the viewers broadband will be but for Blu-ray it's got to be Full HD 1080p.

May 3rd, 2013, 09:48 AM	#4
Katie Fasel Major Player Join Date: May 2011 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 236	Re: 720 or 1080 for HD Delivery We switched starting this season from delivering 720p to 1080, and I see a dramatic difference. Not only in our blurays, but in the DVDs as well.

May 3rd, 2013, 09:59 AM	#5
Peter Riding Major Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Reading Berkshire UK Posts: 872	Re: 720 or 1080 for HD Delivery I do entirely 1080 partly because that makes them rather more future proof now the 4000 is just around the corner and before long players will need to upscale to it. I supply instructions with my MP4 files advising clients that if their playback device chokes on it they should try the manufacturers software to do a downconversion. The files play fine on my Ipad3 and Galaxy S3. Pete

May 3rd, 2013, 12:58 PM	#6
David Stoneburner Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 493	Re: 720 or 1080 for HD Delivery I think it depends on where the product is going. First of all you say you are doing HD then 720p is HD. If you advertise Full HD, then you provide 1080. I don't do weddings anymore but I do a lot of events. If I have a client that wants a video for their website, then I provide them 720 for two reasons. 1. The quality is great and it comes in at a smaller file size. 2. As listed above 720 has better reliability for web playback depending on the viewers connection speed. I still provide them a 1080 master copy for future proofing.

May 5th, 2013, 07:09 AM	#7
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: 720 or 1080 for HD Delivery If you are shooting in 24p or 30p, you might as well get the original in the highest resolution. Although 30p is not a Blu-ray standard format. If you are shooting action events then 720p50/60 is perfectly fine. I think of the framerate first when choosing a shooting format. If you have a 1080p60 camera, then shoot everything in 60p and output in your delivery resolution & framerate. Best of both worlds. On a Blu-ray, I do not see that much difference between the two. But my 1080p Pana plasma might be very good at scaling. This varies from TV to TV.

May 5th, 2013, 08:44 AM	#8
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: 720 or 1080 for HD Delivery With HD pixel counts spiralling away, as far as I'm concerned, HD is the better version of SD. That is all. Sticking superlatives or descriptors with fancy names in front of it aren't technical. Full HD may well be an accepted definition for 1080p but for how long. It also is really a definition of a format at a moment in time, so it is really a format definition, not a quality definition. You can have a clip of video sitting as a file on a memory stick in Full HD, but it might have come from a 20 year old VHS tape. Clearly, the image is poorer, but the picture standard is still Full HD. Some 720 cameras will produce better images than 1080 cameras - we see this with things like GoPros once the light has gone in. So for me, HD is simply HD and some of my stuff is 720 some 1080, and I don't have an issue with formats at all - just quality. 720 from a camera with excellent glass and 3 sensors looks better to me on my big screen than 1080 from a 1/3" 1080 camera.

May 7th, 2013, 03:06 AM	#9
Steve Slattery Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Lancashire Posts: 73	Re: 720 or 1080 for HD Delivery 720 from a camera with excellent glass and 3 sensors looks better to me on my big screen than 1080 from a 1/3" 1080 camera. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Excellent point. 720P is equiv to 1080i and I doubt most clients will see the difference. I read recently an article on the benefit of 4K and how it wouldnt be mathematically possible to se the difference on anything over 65" screen (dependant on viewing distance). They stated that most home set ups cant see the difference between 720 and 1080 because of the distance/screen size. Personally I no longer sell blue-rays and instead sell the HD file at 720p and it looks great, I do it because there are still quite a few media players on the market that cant handle 1080p. Steve __________________ http://www.wedding-video.co.uk http://www.cedarhouseproductions.co.uk

May 7th, 2013, 04:23 AM	#10
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: 720 or 1080 for HD Delivery "full hd" and "hd ready" are just marketing terms, my wife's pocketcamera can do "full hd" but with a lens as large as a eurocent and a bitrate of a few megs you know what to expect in terms of imagequality, but it's full hd! :) Like Paul said, 720p can look better then 1080p depending on the camera used, Not sure how the 5d does in 720p 50p but my t2i takes a resolution hit that way and you can see the quality difference with 1080p, that might be a issue if you deliver in that format and if your client has a very big lcd screen.

May 7th, 2013, 04:15 PM	#11
Greg Fiske Major Player Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Santa Ana, CA Posts: 499	Re: 720 or 1080 for HD Delivery Dslr's do not resolve more than 500 lines, so there is no discernible difference between 720p and 1080p. But like the previous posters said, it varies by the tv. On my panasonic, I've tested it and can't see any difference. 720p allows you to creatively crop in post and to stabilize. By default vimeo downscales to 720p.

May 16th, 2013, 01:25 PM	#13
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: 720 or 1080 for HD Delivery I can see the difference between a "720" HD panel and a 1080 HD panel, at 24" screen sizes... I bought a TV advertised as "full HD", and showing 1080 on the box, but it had a 720 panel when I researched, it was returned immediately as it looked like poo. As far as it goes, I'd recommend ALWAYS stay at the highest quality possible as far into the workflow as possible. Of course if you're dropping old SD footage into a HD "container", it's still going to look like SD footage... It's quite possible, maybe even probable, that most viewers won't spot or know the difference, but more and more people are beginning to see and expect better "HD" quality as more TV's are properly set up, and HD content is more standard. You could get away with bad quality while in the transitionary period, and I still see some clearly "SD" quality commercials and such here and there, but they really stick out!