Shooting a wedding with a Blackmagic

James Manford · April 21st, 2013, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Grant

Ok. I've seen all that. still not convinced.

I was watching a wedding film (a family friends).

The videographer edited the video really well, the rest of the family where saying how everythings too fast and the film isn't that good.

Now as a editor / videographer myself, I understood why he had to edit the way he did ... because he wasn't using a large sensor camera, so it wasn't cinematic. So he made up for the documentary style with lots of editing techniques that must of took a long time to do as it went with the music and everything.

My point is ... steady, crisp image quality where the bride can see people's reactions, her dress etc is better than a lot of unnecessary editing.

So if that means the MK3 is easier to handle and will enable you to capture essential shots easier ... BUY THAT CAMERA and not the BMC. The difference between the two isn't much!

Nigel Barker · April 21st, 2013, 07:34 AM

That comparison between the BMCC & the 5D3 has been used to beat up the 5D3 as it is playing to the BMCC's strengths.You could shoot another comparison video in low light where the 5D3 would be the clear winner.

Long Truong · April 21st, 2013, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

That comparison between the BMCC & the 5D3 has been used to beat up the 5D3 as it is playing to the BMCC's strengths.You could shoot another comparison video in low light where the 5D3 would be the clear winner.

I think what's important when watching video samples or footage comparison is to avoid trying to find a winner/loser but to look at what each camera has to offer and what we personally think fits our needs. And never just make your decision only based on one video. Go out there and test the cameras out to see if you like it. It's the best way to know.

Clive McLaughlin · April 22nd, 2013, 12:57 AM

Like I always try to point out, we talk about technical details of quality like they are vital. We all know they are not. They are if you are bothered about being competitive with each other. But they arn't vital in terms of our businesses. Clients want excellent creativity, excellent shots, excellent attitude during the day, excellent timelines and yet they probably only want satisfactory video quality.

Note: When I say satisfactory I mean very good, sharp, clear, and no noise. IMO things like an upgrade from a 5Dmk2 to a 5Dmk3 will not improve your profitability. Not unless you convince the client that it is vastly superior, despite the fact she probably wouldnt be able to spot the superiority.

Note Suwanchote · April 22nd, 2013, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clive McLaughlin

Like I always try to point out, we talk about technical details of quality like they are vital. We all know they are not. They are if you are bothered about being competitive with each other. But they arn't vital in terms of our businesses. Clients want excellent creativity, excellent shots, excellent attitude during the day, excellent timelines and yet they probably only want satisfactory video quality.

Note: When I say satisfactory I mean very good, sharp, clear, and no noise. IMO things like an upgrade from a 5Dmk2 to a 5Dmk3 will not improve your profitability. Not unless you convince the client that it is vastly superior, despite the fact she probably wouldnt be able to spot the superiority.

+1--agreed

Steve Burkett · April 22nd, 2013, 02:14 AM

All the same upgrading your camera can be a worthwhile investment. I was running a 60d and gh2 last year and added a gh3 this year. The new camera has 50p, great for slow motion shots, weather sealed - very useful for the UK and better low light - not as good as a Mark III, but the weddings I've done this year I've had to use Neat Video a lot less and since that adds hours in rendering, my workflow is faster as a result. I'd imagine an upgrade from a Mark II to a Mark III would pay similar dividends. I'm interested in the Pocket BMC purely for the greater dynamic range which could aid in some outdoor high contrast shots that I struggle to colour grade in post. Ultimately a camera is no more than a tool of our trade and we pick the one we feel most happy with. It's all personal preference in camera selection.

Noa Put · April 22nd, 2013, 02:52 AM

I think we all know by now a bmc camera shoot's with a higher DR, outputs a higher res image and allows you to show color gradients that where never possible before in any camera at it's current price class. The same should apply for the pocket camera but that still remains to be seen. From all user videos I have seen so far I can only conclude it takes a experienced user to get the most from this camera.

I am very interested in the pocket version and if it can deliver I plan to get it for personal projects, if it proves to shoot a high quality image I don't see why I should not be using it in high contrast scenes like Steve pointed out, I can't wait to see how it will handle a bright white dress when the bride stands in the glaring sun and guests in the shade in one and the same shot. In that case it will become just another cheap tool in the box for those particular outdoor situations.

Kevin Duffey · April 23rd, 2013, 10:58 PM

A couple posts back a few of you mentioned you're afraid of the form factor for shooting weddings. I am going to guess that you mean run-n-gun? Noa said he shoots on a tripod or monopod, with a rails rig setup, I don't see how using the BMCC or BMPCC would be much different (other than perhaps weight and only by a little bit for the BMCC) over any DSLR.

My rig, which consists of a canon t2i, Lanparte rails rig (matte box, cage/handle bar, under bar handles for shoulder mount, shoulder pad, 130Kw battery with HDMI splitter base, follow focus), my DR-40 audio recorder, Shuttle 2 HDMI recorder, 2 boom mics, weighs about 20 lbs. I can shoulder mount it, but it's too heavy to use for a long period of run-n-gun.. although to be fair I've never tried nor have I balanced it right with say a weight (and/or battery) behind my shoulder to center-balance it on my shoulder. I am adding an IKAN 8" monitor soon as well.

So if you can tripod mount your rig, I see nothing to worry about compared to using any DSLR. Hopefully BlackMagic will provide some sort of android/iphone app to control the cameras sooner than later as well.

@Noa, you mentioned something about audio but I didn't quite get how you are handling it. I am sure you know well enough not to use the mics on the camera itself. Do you use a H4N or DR-40 with boom mics or something similar?

I would consider shooting a wedding if I knew how to get in and around all the people and what to shoot. It seems like it would be fun.. however, the hours involved in shooting, meeting, editing, etc.. is not worth the $1K to $3K most videos go for around the area I live in. Especially if you pay for an assistant or two to help with mics/lights/etc. I am however thinking with a pair of the pocket cameras and good low-light capable lens, they may tip the balance a little bit. I am still not sure about how you get lav mics wired up on the bride/groom for good audio during the ceremony though... especially the bride as her dress is more likely more difficult to hide a mic in/on.

Adrian Tan · April 24th, 2013, 12:21 AM

Form factor -- I personally think there's not all that much difference. Definitely DSLR is better (no external battery, has a grip for hand-holding when you need to, no touching the same screen you're using for focus). And definitely a proper camcorder is better than DSLR!

I think the main thing that makes me cautious for using BMCs in weddings (apart from low light) is lack of manual controls. Run'n'gun means adjusting a lot of things on the fly. ISO, aperture, shutter, even frame rates. And there are other things DSLRs do that I appreciate. You can set them to shutter priority for some sort of auto iris effect when you have to. You can take stills when you have to. You can auto focus when you have to. Etc.

But I'm sure all these inconveniences in using BMCs are surmountable, and it's definitely not a bad idea to carry one for contrasty environments. Looking forward to what Note and other people will produce with them.

Noa Put · April 24th, 2013, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Duffey

@Noa, you mentioned something about audio but I didn't quite get how you are handling it. I am sure you know well enough not to use the mics on the camera itself. Do you use a H4N or DR-40 with boom mics or something similar?

The main part of my audio is handled externally through recorders (a tascam dr40, zoom h1, yamaha c24 and a iriver)
I think the main issue with the bmc for weddings is that, like Adrian points out, lack of manual controlls, everything you do needs to be done through the touch screen, can't see that happening in run and gun if you need to make a quick change. A dslr is not very good either at that but at least you do have some physical buttons to quickly make some changes.

The only camera I see as an option to take with me at a wedding is the bmc pocket version for very specific controlled shots where you have harsh contrasts, like sunny outdoor shots at a reception or even a photoshoot but that's about it.

There are more and more user videos appearing on vimeo from the bmc, several of them look as if they where shot with a cheap camera, that again proves me many people buy the camera because it's cheap and because they think it will give them that much desired cinematic look but it takes much more then the camera alone to achieve that, skill is one aspect needed.

April 21st, 2013, 07:34 AM	#17
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	Re: Shooting a wedding with a Blackmagic That comparison between the BMCC & the 5D3 has been used to beat up the 5D3 as it is playing to the BMCC's strengths.You could shoot another comparison video in low light where the 5D3 would be the clear winner.

April 22nd, 2013, 12:57 AM	#19
Clive McLaughlin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Belfast Posts: 823	Re: Shooting a wedding with a Blackmagic Like I always try to point out, we talk about technical details of quality like they are vital. We all know they are not. They are if you are bothered about being competitive with each other. But they arn't vital in terms of our businesses. Clients want excellent creativity, excellent shots, excellent attitude during the day, excellent timelines and yet they probably only want satisfactory video quality. Note: When I say satisfactory I mean very good, sharp, clear, and no noise. IMO things like an upgrade from a 5Dmk2 to a 5Dmk3 will not improve your profitability. Not unless you convince the client that it is vastly superior, despite the fact she probably wouldnt be able to spot the superiority.

April 22nd, 2013, 02:14 AM	#21
Steve Burkett Trustee Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Romsey, UK Posts: 1,261	Re: Shooting a wedding with a Blackmagic All the same upgrading your camera can be a worthwhile investment. I was running a 60d and gh2 last year and added a gh3 this year. The new camera has 50p, great for slow motion shots, weather sealed - very useful for the UK and better low light - not as good as a Mark III, but the weddings I've done this year I've had to use Neat Video a lot less and since that adds hours in rendering, my workflow is faster as a result. I'd imagine an upgrade from a Mark II to a Mark III would pay similar dividends. I'm interested in the Pocket BMC purely for the greater dynamic range which could aid in some outdoor high contrast shots that I struggle to colour grade in post. Ultimately a camera is no more than a tool of our trade and we pick the one we feel most happy with. It's all personal preference in camera selection.

April 22nd, 2013, 02:52 AM	#22
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Shooting a wedding with a Blackmagic I think we all know by now a bmc camera shoot's with a higher DR, outputs a higher res image and allows you to show color gradients that where never possible before in any camera at it's current price class. The same should apply for the pocket camera but that still remains to be seen. From all user videos I have seen so far I can only conclude it takes a experienced user to get the most from this camera. I am very interested in the pocket version and if it can deliver I plan to get it for personal projects, if it proves to shoot a high quality image I don't see why I should not be using it in high contrast scenes like Steve pointed out, I can't wait to see how it will handle a bright white dress when the bride stands in the glaring sun and guests in the shade in one and the same shot. In that case it will become just another cheap tool in the box for those particular outdoor situations.

April 23rd, 2013, 10:58 PM	#23
Kevin Duffey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California Posts: 206	Re: Shooting a wedding with a Blackmagic A couple posts back a few of you mentioned you're afraid of the form factor for shooting weddings. I am going to guess that you mean run-n-gun? Noa said he shoots on a tripod or monopod, with a rails rig setup, I don't see how using the BMCC or BMPCC would be much different (other than perhaps weight and only by a little bit for the BMCC) over any DSLR. My rig, which consists of a canon t2i, Lanparte rails rig (matte box, cage/handle bar, under bar handles for shoulder mount, shoulder pad, 130Kw battery with HDMI splitter base, follow focus), my DR-40 audio recorder, Shuttle 2 HDMI recorder, 2 boom mics, weighs about 20 lbs. I can shoulder mount it, but it's too heavy to use for a long period of run-n-gun.. although to be fair I've never tried nor have I balanced it right with say a weight (and/or battery) behind my shoulder to center-balance it on my shoulder. I am adding an IKAN 8" monitor soon as well. So if you can tripod mount your rig, I see nothing to worry about compared to using any DSLR. Hopefully BlackMagic will provide some sort of android/iphone app to control the cameras sooner than later as well. @Noa, you mentioned something about audio but I didn't quite get how you are handling it. I am sure you know well enough not to use the mics on the camera itself. Do you use a H4N or DR-40 with boom mics or something similar? I would consider shooting a wedding if I knew how to get in and around all the people and what to shoot. It seems like it would be fun.. however, the hours involved in shooting, meeting, editing, etc.. is not worth the $1K to $3K most videos go for around the area I live in. Especially if you pay for an assistant or two to help with mics/lights/etc. I am however thinking with a pair of the pocket cameras and good low-light capable lens, they may tip the balance a little bit. I am still not sure about how you get lav mics wired up on the bride/groom for good audio during the ceremony though... especially the bride as her dress is more likely more difficult to hide a mic in/on.

April 24th, 2013, 12:21 AM	#24
Adrian Tan Trustee Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1,149	Re: Shooting a wedding with a Blackmagic Form factor -- I personally think there's not all that much difference. Definitely DSLR is better (no external battery, has a grip for hand-holding when you need to, no touching the same screen you're using for focus). And definitely a proper camcorder is better than DSLR! I think the main thing that makes me cautious for using BMCs in weddings (apart from low light) is lack of manual controls. Run'n'gun means adjusting a lot of things on the fly. ISO, aperture, shutter, even frame rates. And there are other things DSLRs do that I appreciate. You can set them to shutter priority for some sort of auto iris effect when you have to. You can take stills when you have to. You can auto focus when you have to. Etc. But I'm sure all these inconveniences in using BMCs are surmountable, and it's definitely not a bad idea to carry one for contrasty environments. Looking forward to what Note and other people will produce with them.