Sending DVDs overseas at DVinfo.net

Adrian Tan · February 3rd, 2013, 01:55 PM

Now, for some reason, I've only had one groom ever ask about this... Potential client. Wanted to know about compatibility of format if he was sending copies of his DVD overseas.

I scratched my head. Google tells me that most PAL TVs and DVD players can cope with NTSC, but that the converse isn't true, so that NTSC is the better format to shoot in for universal compatibility.

Anyway, so this is probably a question mainly for PAL people, but have you ever faced this sort of problem? If so, how did you handle it? Did you shoot in 25 and convert to 30 for DVD? Did you shoot in 30 to begin with? Did you supply all DVDs as 30, or some in 25 and some in 30?

Don Bloom · February 3rd, 2013, 03:55 PM

I've had DVDs played in Holland, Bosnia, Romania and other countrys and I have never burned a PAL DVD. I simply set my region to 0 (zero) which means it will or at least should play anywhere except perhaps Mars.

Chris Harding · February 3rd, 2013, 06:32 PM

Hi Adrian

I have had a couple of USA clients who want DVD's to send over to family so I don't do these in PAL but in NTSC ...Just re-render the project in MPEG2 but NTSC and then burn NTSC disks too...the reason for this is that often Grand Parents are getting the copies and they might have much older DVD Players that may not be able to handle PAL DVD's .... It basically takes away all doubt and you don't end up with a "your DVD's don't work" scenario but it does take a little extra time.

Chris

Chris Hewitt · February 3rd, 2013, 07:29 PM

Don, I can tell you for a fact that Secam is the format on Mars but oddly enough they are still using Vhs tape there as the red dust tends to scratch the disc surface of DVD's. Now Chris Harding might argue that the conditions are identical north of where he lives by about 600 miles or so and he would be right but Chris, have you shot any weddings in the Pilbara?
Although Secam is still used on Mars, they shoot at 7 frames a second due to the lower gravity.
I know this as I have shot three weddings in the Olympus Mons region and that was at 25,000 feet on the eastern slope....and I'm still waiting for payment. The asteroid belt is a different situation entirely and not one to enter into lightly.

Don Bloom · February 3rd, 2013, 08:02 PM

Should have gotten your money upfront!!! ;-)

Dave Partington · February 4th, 2013, 04:19 AM

We've sent DVDs to the USA and simply converted them to NTSC when creating the MPEG2. There was a slight loss in quality, but the viewers are looking at the content not the production.

You could also consider conforming your 25p to 24p prior to compressing to NTSC. This would probably end up with better quality.

Peter Riding · February 4th, 2013, 05:54 AM

I supply all my shows in the MP4 format in addition to regular DVD. These can of course be played via streamers, games consoles, and on computers tablets and smartphones. So it sidesteps possible compatibility issues and is in many ways more desirable as it can be much higher quality than DVDs.

I render the MP4's in Vegas Pro at 1920x1080, variable bit rate 14 max 10 average 2 pass. n.b. 2 pass can make a significant difference even for wedding videos especially for detail like brickwork in backgrounds so its worth the extra rendering time. If the whole show is over an hour I burn the file to a dual layer disc rather than supply two discs.

That spec. will choke some low powered devices of course so I also include a note advising clients to resize the file using their own device's software if needs be. It works fine as is on Ipad 3's, Galaxy S3's, Playstation 3's and half decent PC's.

I've supplied numerous PAL discs to UK based US clients without incident so I think compatibility is now greater than was once the case. Remember there are also simple firmware and hardware hacks to persuade region coded players to behave. Some retailers make a point of saying that they will do an update for you.

Pete

Sareesh Sudhakaran · February 4th, 2013, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Tan

... NTSC is the better format to shoot in for universal compatibility.

It's funny, but there are DVD manufacturers (distributors) who sell NTSC based DVDs in my country, of movies that didn't originate in NTSC.

For what it's worth, all the screeners I've sent to the US were shot and authored in 25p widescreen, and I haven't heard any complaints. Furthermore, my movie is streaming on Amazon (which I can't watch) from a 25p master.

Hope this helps.

Chris Harding · February 4th, 2013, 07:43 AM

Hi Adrian

I can see their point but you are working at a lower resolution in NTSC if you are doing SD...in HD it's much of a muchness as the frame rate really is only changing..if I was doing work exclusively for someone in the USA I would simply switch my camera from 50i to 60i and shoot the footage and downconvert if asked to go to NTSC. NLE's will happily render timelines in either 50i or 60i or 25P or 30p out to an MPEG2 file in either PAL or NTSC without any major issues.

Most pro cameras now are dual format anyway and unlike SD cameras you don't have the 720x480 and 720x576 gap at all. This is obviously just a DVD player issue more than anything else I assume?? Digital formats like Peter says are almost playable on anything in MP4 format regardless of region.

I was always under the impression that burned DVD's (as opposed to pressed masters) are automatically written on one's computer for Region 0 only and it wasn't actually possible to burn a DVD on your machine to a specific region.

I must admit my players run NTSC DVD's perfectly but it seems the problem is the other way around and PAL DVD's don't fare so well on NTSC DVD players ...Maybe someone in the USA can confirm if PAL DVD's play well on their players?

Chris

Eric Olson · February 4th, 2013, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Maybe someone in the USA can confirm if PAL DVD's play well on their players?

A bunch of inexpensive VHS/DVD combo players were sold in the last 10 years that don't play PAL format DVDs. There are probably some stand-alone DVD players that won't as well. Older DVD players are more likely to play both formats. It's actually quite amazing.

Steve Game · February 5th, 2013, 03:05 AM

Nobody here seems to have mentioned the problems of shooting 60Hz video under 50Hz lighting, (assuming there is local mains powered lighting at the event. If I was shooting in a 50Hz environment where I didn't have control over all ambient lighting, unless it was entirely lit by daylight, I would use a 50Hz frame rate to avoid 10Hz strobing which is impossible to remove in post. Any copies required for distribution in 60Hz lands would be converted. There would be no strobe effects, just the usual frame conversion issues.

Adrian Tan · February 5th, 2013, 12:41 PM

Hi Steve, I guess if I see some flickering, I'll reach for shutter speed rather than frame rate (and if the motion blur looks slightly different... I don't think I'd care very much, to be honest).

During a wedding, it'll probably be under reception lighting. By that time, I would have shot most of the day at 25fps anyway (maybe some 50fps during the photoshoot period).

February 3rd, 2013, 01:55 PM	#1
Adrian Tan Trustee Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1,149	Sending DVDs overseas Now, for some reason, I've only had one groom ever ask about this... Potential client. Wanted to know about compatibility of format if he was sending copies of his DVD overseas. I scratched my head. Google tells me that most PAL TVs and DVD players can cope with NTSC, but that the converse isn't true, so that NTSC is the better format to shoot in for universal compatibility. Anyway, so this is probably a question mainly for PAL people, but have you ever faced this sort of problem? If so, how did you handle it? Did you shoot in 25 and convert to 30 for DVD? Did you shoot in 30 to begin with? Did you supply all DVDs as 30, or some in 25 and some in 30?

February 3rd, 2013, 03:55 PM	#2
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Re: Sending DVDs overseas I've had DVDs played in Holland, Bosnia, Romania and other countrys and I have never burned a PAL DVD. I simply set my region to 0 (zero) which means it will or at least should play anywhere except perhaps Mars. __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

February 3rd, 2013, 06:32 PM	#3
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Sending DVDs overseas Hi Adrian I have had a couple of USA clients who want DVD's to send over to family so I don't do these in PAL but in NTSC ...Just re-render the project in MPEG2 but NTSC and then burn NTSC disks too...the reason for this is that often Grand Parents are getting the copies and they might have much older DVD Players that may not be able to handle PAL DVD's .... It basically takes away all doubt and you don't end up with a "your DVD's don't work" scenario but it does take a little extra time. Chris

February 3rd, 2013, 07:29 PM	#4
Chris Hewitt Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Broadstairs,Kent, England Posts: 225	Re: Sending DVDs overseas Don, I can tell you for a fact that Secam is the format on Mars but oddly enough they are still using Vhs tape there as the red dust tends to scratch the disc surface of DVD's. Now Chris Harding might argue that the conditions are identical north of where he lives by about 600 miles or so and he would be right but Chris, have you shot any weddings in the Pilbara? Although Secam is still used on Mars, they shoot at 7 frames a second due to the lower gravity. I know this as I have shot three weddings in the Olympus Mons region and that was at 25,000 feet on the eastern slope....and I'm still waiting for payment. The asteroid belt is a different situation entirely and not one to enter into lightly.

February 3rd, 2013, 08:02 PM	#5
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Re: Sending DVDs overseas Should have gotten your money upfront!!! ;-) __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

February 4th, 2013, 04:19 AM	#6
Dave Partington Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: York, England Posts: 1,323	Re: Sending DVDs overseas We've sent DVDs to the USA and simply converted them to NTSC when creating the MPEG2. There was a slight loss in quality, but the viewers are looking at the content not the production. You could also consider conforming your 25p to 24p prior to compressing to NTSC. This would probably end up with better quality. __________________ Qualified UAV Pilot with CAA PFAW Aerial Photo / Aerial Video \| Corporate Video Production

February 4th, 2013, 05:54 AM	#7
Peter Riding Major Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Reading Berkshire UK Posts: 872	Re: Sending DVDs overseas I supply all my shows in the MP4 format in addition to regular DVD. These can of course be played via streamers, games consoles, and on computers tablets and smartphones. So it sidesteps possible compatibility issues and is in many ways more desirable as it can be much higher quality than DVDs. I render the MP4's in Vegas Pro at 1920x1080, variable bit rate 14 max 10 average 2 pass. n.b. 2 pass can make a significant difference even for wedding videos especially for detail like brickwork in backgrounds so its worth the extra rendering time. If the whole show is over an hour I burn the file to a dual layer disc rather than supply two discs. That spec. will choke some low powered devices of course so I also include a note advising clients to resize the file using their own device's software if needs be. It works fine as is on Ipad 3's, Galaxy S3's, Playstation 3's and half decent PC's. I've supplied numerous PAL discs to UK based US clients without incident so I think compatibility is now greater than was once the case. Remember there are also simple firmware and hardware hacks to persuade region coded players to behave. Some retailers make a point of saying that they will do an update for you. Pete

February 4th, 2013, 07:43 AM	#9
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Sending DVDs overseas Hi Adrian I can see their point but you are working at a lower resolution in NTSC if you are doing SD...in HD it's much of a muchness as the frame rate really is only changing..if I was doing work exclusively for someone in the USA I would simply switch my camera from 50i to 60i and shoot the footage and downconvert if asked to go to NTSC. NLE's will happily render timelines in either 50i or 60i or 25P or 30p out to an MPEG2 file in either PAL or NTSC without any major issues. Most pro cameras now are dual format anyway and unlike SD cameras you don't have the 720x480 and 720x576 gap at all. This is obviously just a DVD player issue more than anything else I assume?? Digital formats like Peter says are almost playable on anything in MP4 format regardless of region. I was always under the impression that burned DVD's (as opposed to pressed masters) are automatically written on one's computer for Region 0 only and it wasn't actually possible to burn a DVD on your machine to a specific region. I must admit my players run NTSC DVD's perfectly but it seems the problem is the other way around and PAL DVD's don't fare so well on NTSC DVD players ...Maybe someone in the USA can confirm if PAL DVD's play well on their players? Chris

February 5th, 2013, 03:05 AM	#11
Steve Game Major Player Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: London, UK Posts: 353	Re: Sending DVDs overseas Nobody here seems to have mentioned the problems of shooting 60Hz video under 50Hz lighting, (assuming there is local mains powered lighting at the event. If I was shooting in a 50Hz environment where I didn't have control over all ambient lighting, unless it was entirely lit by daylight, I would use a 50Hz frame rate to avoid 10Hz strobing which is impossible to remove in post. Any copies required for distribution in 60Hz lands would be converted. There would be no strobe effects, just the usual frame conversion issues.

February 5th, 2013, 12:41 PM	#12
Adrian Tan Trustee Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1,149	Re: Sending DVDs overseas Hi Steve, I guess if I see some flickering, I'll reach for shutter speed rather than frame rate (and if the motion blur looks slightly different... I don't think I'd care very much, to be honest). During a wedding, it'll probably be under reception lighting. By that time, I would have shot most of the day at 25fps anyway (maybe some 50fps during the photoshoot period).