No more video cameras? at DVinfo.net

Michael Kraus · November 19th, 2012, 11:37 AM

This is mainly just for interesting discussion.

The DSLR saturation of the wedding video market occurred to me the other day when I shot a wedding and there were no video cameras present. The photographers and videographers all used DSLRs exclusively, including myself as a contract shooter, the company I was shooting with, and another contract videographer.

I know this has probably been happening for a while but is this the norm now? I honestly have never seen an FS100, C100, or even a VG10, 20, or 30 at a wedding in my local market. Even some of the larger wedding video companies in my area (Denton, DFW) shoot exclusively with DSLRs.

Is this nationwide? Do you think it'll change anytime soon?

Dave Partington · November 19th, 2012, 11:55 AM

We shot exclusively with DSLR for around 15-18 months (I don't remember exactly) then bought some more camcorders because there are certain things video cameras are better at doing and while you can work around the limitations of DSLRs, they aren't 'fixes', they are workarounds.

I think you're more likely to see more camcorders heading in to the large sensor arena, meaning that the pendulum will swing back the other way and you'll start to see more people using camcorders again.

It will take time, but I think the pendulum will swing back again ;)

John Knight · November 19th, 2012, 12:09 PM

I think the DSLR wedding bubble is about to burst. I've never switched over to DSLR, but many of my competitors have. They are regretting it. Too much hassle in editing and cumbersome in operation. I've noticed the quality of their work decline - which is awesome for me. Their wedding videos are now a shallow collection of standard rack-focus and slider shots of nothing in particular. No substance. No story.

DSLR is/was a phase. Just like BluRay.

Daniel Latimer · November 19th, 2012, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Knight

I think the DSLR wedding bubble is about to burst. I've never switched over to DSLR, but many of my competitors have. They are regretting it. Too much hassle in editing and cumbersome in operation. I've noticed the quality of their work decline - which is awesome for me. Their wedding videos are now a shallow collection of standard rack-focus and slider shots of nothing in particular. No substance. No story.

DSLR is/was a phase. Just like BluRay.

How is using a DSLR the cause of a wedding video having no story? It may be more difficult to handle than a camcorder, but I don't think that should cause someone who could once tell a compelling wedding story to suddenly forget how to do so.

I would think that as more camcorders catch up to the video quality of a DSLR (at that price point) we will see camcorders come back.

Jordan Brindle · November 19th, 2012, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Knight

I think the DSLR wedding bubble is about to burst. I've never switched over to DSLR, but many of my competitors have. They are regretting it. Too much hassle in editing and cumbersome in operation. I've noticed the quality of their work decline - which is awesome for me. Their wedding videos are now a shallow collection of standard rack-focus and slider shots of nothing in particular. No substance. No story.

DSLR is/was a phase. Just like BluRay.

You are implying that using a DSLR is somehow relative to your skill as a camera operator/film maker?

''A good workman never blames his tools''.

How do you know they're regretting it? What's the extra hassle in editing again? No auto-focus is cumbersome? I think DSLR's help teach you to see things from a different perspective and round your abilities as a film-maker, if that really is your passion. Being able to point and shoot is great but i found it gets boring and i wanted more variety in my shots. Everyone knows the real reason DSLR's are so popular, because they produce great results in the right hands.

If you think the bubble is about to 'burst' i think you're wrong. People will stop using DSLR's when someone comes up with a new camcorder that produces the same great results for a cheaper price, and that's it. DSLR's are too versatile to simply drop out of trend, the market is becoming saturated with entrepreneurs developing great new kit at budget prices - i can't see the DSLR craze ending any time soon.

John Knight · November 19th, 2012, 01:32 PM

Woohoo, that's rattled some cages.

I love the DSLR look when done properly and in capable hands. Some of the teams that win the awards are incredibly talented. However, 95% of weddings I view on other peoples portfolio sites attempting to mimic that style are truly terrible. Appauling focus, shaky camera work, and repetitive slider reveals. I think they use DSLR hoping the 'look' will mask inept shooting and editing skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordan Brindle

Being able to point and shoot is great but i found it gets boring...

This herein is the problem. Brides want to be able to see their day, their friends, their dress. It's not boring to them - every second of their day is precious. But once you start dismissing this fact as boring, and instead concentrate your efforts on producing glam shots of rings spinning around on a shiny table, you've lost a little focus of what this industry is about.

Dave Partington · November 19th, 2012, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Knight

This herein is the problem. Brides want to be able to see their day, their friends, their dress. It's not boring to them - every second of their day is precious. But once you start dismissing this fact as boring, and instead concentrate your efforts on producing glam shots of rings spinning around on a shiny table, you've lost a little focus of what this industry is about.

Bingo! A year ago there were quite a few people saying they were charging (and claiming to get) $2500 - $5000 for a 6-7 minute film - refusing to do the 'boring' stuff because it was against their 'art'. I wonder how many of them ever managed to make a full time living doing 'only' the 6-7 minute films.

Around here, brides want the full ceremony, the full speeches, cake cut, first dance. Yes they want the highlights video too but they expect the bridal entrance, the readings, the vows and exchange of rings to be 'in focus' and with clean clear audio. After that, they are unwilling to pay for anything too much in the way of 'art'.

In terms of camcorders needing to be at the price point of DSLRs, they are already there. A 'good' DSLR kit capable of handling all situations costs a lot of money. Of course, the cheap cowboy outfits with only a T2i/550D and a 50mm lens who invade the couple's space, get in the way of the people taking the ceremony, the photographer and of course the guests, well, I guess they get to do it for less money, but I don't ever want to be that intrusive on people's day. Do you?

Giovanni Speranza · November 19th, 2012, 03:15 PM

It's all about beauty.
DSLR produce videos that are just moving photos, with all their depth of field, latitude, colorimetry and magic.
No, video cameras wont' come back, until they will sport LARGE sensors. And huge dynamics.

Noa Put · November 19th, 2012, 03:39 PM

It doesn't matter what you use, it's how you use it. Here I also see dslr's being used more by wedding videographers but it's mainly the younger crowd, the old timers usually hang on to a real videocamera. I prefer both, a few small handicams for longer registrations like a ceremony or speeches and dslr for steadicam and creative shots.

I actually wouldn't mind getting a "glam shots of spinning rings" but only if time allows, these kind of shots I would use for creating a trailer or short versions and for that a dslr is the best option.

I also deliver a long version that has the ceremony, speeches etc so the couple have a long version to watch on a cold winter evening and a short version to show their family and a trailer to show their (facebook)friends. Percentage wise I would say the trailer has the most DSLR footage, then the short version and the long version has the most regular video camera footage.

Andrew Giordano · November 19th, 2012, 04:18 PM

Yes, and making comments on DSLR's in general, is dismissive and ignorant. Full Frame DSLRs are going to give you way more focusing problems, than APS-C, and APS-C is going to give you more problems than micro four thirds. Lens choices, without a doubt, stomp nearly all camcorders as those only have a fixed 10x zoom lens or something (please don't point at wide angle adapters. Lens flare city). You can actually have more flex, and more reach since you can interchange lenses. I think it's funny that the only people that really complain about DSLR's are old school shooters, and not clients. They love it.

I have to check myself too when I watch other videographers' work. Am I just being dismissive so I don't have to change, learn and grow? Is it actually good work? Can I get over my own ego and insecurities and see that it's actually a really good job?

Plus, now that nearly everyone shoots with them, the playing field is level again. So these rack focusing shots are only going to last so long and now originality falls back on the shooter as opposed to the gear. I'm already pretty bored of my rack focus shots, but it's a good place to be in, because it means I'm on the hunt for something else.

Daniel Latimer · November 19th, 2012, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Partington

In terms of camcorders needing to be at the price point of DSLRs, they are already there. A 'good' DSLR kit capable of handling all situations costs a lot of money. Of course, the cheap cowboy outfits with only a T2i/550D and a 50mm lens who invade the couple's space, get in the way of the people taking the ceremony, the photographer and of course the guests, well, I guess they get to do it for less money, but I don't ever want to be that intrusive on people's day. Do you?

Your rhetoric is lovely.

I think it's too easy to place brides in one camp or the other. It's quite possible that different brides are looking for different styles. Anyway anyone shooting weddings has their own style and should have a target audience in mind that would appreciate that style.

It's mostly speculation on my part though, I'm not nearly as experienced as most of you. I like to shoot weddings on the side as a creative outlet.

I think I saw a stat on here one time that 20% of brides get a videographer. That's not a huge percentage. I think videographers are trying to push the limits of their own creativity to take in a larger stake of weddings.

Bill Grant · November 19th, 2012, 07:00 PM

I will only comment to say you guys are so cute in here arguing about all of this. Instead, just go out and put all of your beliefs to work and make some money. Who cares whether you are right or not, if you can sell it, do it.
That is all.
Bill

Chris Harding · November 19th, 2012, 07:01 PM

I love these posts...since there is still a bitter rivalry between DSLR people and videocamera people it makes for amusing reading and more often the poster is so rigously defending his choice of tool thet forget that it's the bride's wedding and seriously does she really care if you are using a brand new Canon 5DIII with all the rig trimmings and a classy matt box ...or a KongWong Super Video Camera from eBay (now on special for $199 and we give you a free tripod and lens cleaning cloth)

Cover the wedding stay in focus and make her look pretty and it doesn't really matter what you use...!

However keep up the posting ..love the battle between the factions BUT what will happen when cams like the NEXEA50 starts getting used? It's half video and half DSLR ...Will those guys be on the fence?

Chris

Daniel Latimer · November 19th, 2012, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Grant

I will only comment to say you guys are so cute in here arguing about all of this. Instead, just go out and put all of your beliefs to work and make some money. Who cares whether you are right or not, if you can sell it, do it.
That is all.
Bill

You think I'm cute? /blushing videographer

Chip Thome · November 19th, 2012, 09:24 PM

I'll toss in an opinion too.

I think they BOTH are going to go away and we will see the convergence of DSLR and Camcorder into a 4K or higher capture device. When that happens and I predict sooner than later, photogs and video guys will be shooting and using the same thing...... frames.

As always though YMMV. :-)

November 19th, 2012, 11:37 AM	#1
Michael Kraus Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Denton, TX Posts: 232	No more video cameras? This is mainly just for interesting discussion. The DSLR saturation of the wedding video market occurred to me the other day when I shot a wedding and there were no video cameras present. The photographers and videographers all used DSLRs exclusively, including myself as a contract shooter, the company I was shooting with, and another contract videographer. I know this has probably been happening for a while but is this the norm now? I honestly have never seen an FS100, C100, or even a VG10, 20, or 30 at a wedding in my local market. Even some of the larger wedding video companies in my area (Denton, DFW) shoot exclusively with DSLRs. Is this nationwide? Do you think it'll change anytime soon?

November 19th, 2012, 11:55 AM	#2
Dave Partington Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: York, England Posts: 1,323	Re: No more video cameras? We shot exclusively with DSLR for around 15-18 months (I don't remember exactly) then bought some more camcorders because there are certain things video cameras are better at doing and while you can work around the limitations of DSLRs, they aren't 'fixes', they are workarounds. I think you're more likely to see more camcorders heading in to the large sensor arena, meaning that the pendulum will swing back the other way and you'll start to see more people using camcorders again. It will take time, but I think the pendulum will swing back again ;) __________________ Qualified UAV Pilot with CAA PFAW Aerial Photo / Aerial Video \| Corporate Video Production

November 19th, 2012, 12:09 PM	#3
John Knight Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 588	Re: No more video cameras? I think the DSLR wedding bubble is about to burst. I've never switched over to DSLR, but many of my competitors have. They are regretting it. Too much hassle in editing and cumbersome in operation. I've noticed the quality of their work decline - which is awesome for me. Their wedding videos are now a shallow collection of standard rack-focus and slider shots of nothing in particular. No substance. No story. DSLR is/was a phase. Just like BluRay.

November 19th, 2012, 03:15 PM	#8
Giovanni Speranza Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Lugano, Switzerland Posts: 149	Re: No more video cameras? It's all about beauty. DSLR produce videos that are just moving photos, with all their depth of field, latitude, colorimetry and magic. No, video cameras wont' come back, until they will sport LARGE sensors. And huge dynamics.

November 19th, 2012, 03:39 PM	#9
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: No more video cameras? It doesn't matter what you use, it's how you use it. Here I also see dslr's being used more by wedding videographers but it's mainly the younger crowd, the old timers usually hang on to a real videocamera. I prefer both, a few small handicams for longer registrations like a ceremony or speeches and dslr for steadicam and creative shots. I actually wouldn't mind getting a "glam shots of spinning rings" but only if time allows, these kind of shots I would use for creating a trailer or short versions and for that a dslr is the best option. I also deliver a long version that has the ceremony, speeches etc so the couple have a long version to watch on a cold winter evening and a short version to show their family and a trailer to show their (facebook)friends. Percentage wise I would say the trailer has the most DSLR footage, then the short version and the long version has the most regular video camera footage.

November 19th, 2012, 04:18 PM	#10
Andrew Giordano New Boot Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 20	Re: No more video cameras? Yes, and making comments on DSLR's in general, is dismissive and ignorant. Full Frame DSLRs are going to give you way more focusing problems, than APS-C, and APS-C is going to give you more problems than micro four thirds. Lens choices, without a doubt, stomp nearly all camcorders as those only have a fixed 10x zoom lens or something (please don't point at wide angle adapters. Lens flare city). You can actually have more flex, and more reach since you can interchange lenses. I think it's funny that the only people that really complain about DSLR's are old school shooters, and not clients. They love it. I have to check myself too when I watch other videographers' work. Am I just being dismissive so I don't have to change, learn and grow? Is it actually good work? Can I get over my own ego and insecurities and see that it's actually a really good job? Plus, now that nearly everyone shoots with them, the playing field is level again. So these rack focusing shots are only going to last so long and now originality falls back on the shooter as opposed to the gear. I'm already pretty bored of my rack focus shots, but it's a good place to be in, because it means I'm on the hunt for something else.

November 19th, 2012, 07:00 PM	#12
Bill Grant Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 806	Re: No more video cameras? I will only comment to say you guys are so cute in here arguing about all of this. Instead, just go out and put all of your beliefs to work and make some money. Who cares whether you are right or not, if you can sell it, do it. That is all. Bill __________________ Cinema Couture www.cinemacouture.com

November 19th, 2012, 07:01 PM	#13
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: No more video cameras? I love these posts...since there is still a bitter rivalry between DSLR people and videocamera people it makes for amusing reading and more often the poster is so rigously defending his choice of tool thet forget that it's the bride's wedding and seriously does she really care if you are using a brand new Canon 5DIII with all the rig trimmings and a classy matt box ...or a KongWong Super Video Camera from eBay (now on special for $199 and we give you a free tripod and lens cleaning cloth) Cover the wedding stay in focus and make her look pretty and it doesn't really matter what you use...! However keep up the posting ..love the battle between the factions BUT what will happen when cams like the NEXEA50 starts getting used? It's half video and half DSLR ...Will those guys be on the fence? Chris

November 19th, 2012, 09:24 PM	#15
Chip Thome Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Green Bay Wisconsin Posts: 553	Re: No more video cameras? I'll toss in an opinion too. I think they BOTH are going to go away and we will see the convergence of DSLR and Camcorder into a 4K or higher capture device. When that happens and I predict sooner than later, photogs and video guys will be shooting and using the same thing...... frames. As always though YMMV. :-)