Candid filming in dark venues - to light or not?

Don Bloom · August 8th, 2012, 07:04 PM

Which is why I always have a conversation with the B&G about lighting and if they insist on low low lighting and don't want me to use any additional lighting, I tell them they have to sign off on the fact that I informed them about the lighting and how it will influence the quality of the finished product and that I, as the professional they hired to produce a quality and professional product for them, cannot and will not be held responsible.
I will write that on the back of the paperwork and they will sign it or I will not shoot. I also run my camera for the audio during this kind of conversation. You know what? They all agree to up the lighting and or allow me to use some sort of additional lighting. After all, they are paying and want a quality product.
Noa, in the case you mentioned, I can see how you were caught between a rock and a hard place. I hope they aren't disappointed in the work you did for them since you did talk to them about it and tried to make your point. I guess the ambience won out. That's too bad for them.
All you can do is the best you can under the circumstances and it sounds like you did.

Noa Put · August 9th, 2012, 01:02 AM

I never have the couple sign anything in regard to not using light and the consequences that might have, I only inform them at the wedding if I run into a situation that my camera's can't handle well, If they still don't want to do anything about it (like last wedding one word from then to the venue manager would have solved the problem) or if they don't want me to do anything about it (with adding lights) I just do what I can and stretch the limitations of my camera as far as possible, in this case it was a 3200 iso on a 14mm f2.8 lens, 1/30th shutter and by using the technicolor cinestyle preset. I was surprised at how much more info the cinestyle preset gave me under these circumstances and after some CC and neatvideo it looks pretty good considering.

If the couple would complain, I don't care and I don't expect they would. They knew.
It the same with sound, I have had an occasion at the day of the wedding where the groom didn't want me to put that black clipon mic onto his vest because his vest was light brown and he didn't want it to show up on the photo's, I told him the sound would be crap if he did his vows but he was ok with that. When I showed them the video you hardly could hear them but they just kept smiling and thanked me for the nice video :)

Peter Rush · August 9th, 2012, 03:28 AM

Can I just say folks that on the plus side, even though I see my job as being there to document, and not interact particularly - the presence of the camera can actually make people play up a little - which can result in some very amusing footage - it's swings and roundabouts I suppose

Also I run Sony Z1, FX1 and HVR A-1E cameras and am not really about to write them all off just yet - especially in the current economic climate - I love the footage from the Z1 cams and using them is just second nature to me now!

Pete

Don Bloom · August 9th, 2012, 05:26 AM

To each his own.

Dave Blackhurst · August 10th, 2012, 01:50 AM

Noa -

That light I mentioned is CHEAP... and it really is NOT obtrusive with one of the filters on it - it isn't a "room light", it's a FILL light, meaning it can add JUST A LITTLE, with a limited range and power, which with your 730 should be "just enough". I've tried several of the small dimmable LED's, and they ALL were a little "too" bright, except for this particular one. "Stun gun" is not a good thing, I know what Don means, fortunately we have better options nowadays!

And because it's very light and small, you can actually just hold it up if you want to control the light and not have it close to the camera. After the first "live fire" use, I won't leave for a shoot without it! Certain parts of the nighttime outfdoor reception actually NEEDED my light, not just for video reasons! I'm going to pick up a couple more to stick in the other camera bags so I don't "forget" and not have one handy! For an under $20 bit of gear, you can't go too far wrong... worth considering when you've got a couple extra bucks to blow!

And my comment on the Z1 was based on low light performance - those early HDV cams were almost as blind as I am in the dark <wink>. Actually up until the "backlit" R sensors hit the streets, low light was pretty rough... us kids got it easy nowadays!

Patrick Janka · August 15th, 2012, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

cheap LED lights are easy to come by - look on eBay for a CN 560 (actual model # is CN-LUX560) - insanely cheap, meaning well less than $20 shipped, wide dimming range from barely on to reasonably bright, and 3xAA battery powered - light enough you can mount it or hold it up while shooting. Has a couple "filters" too.

Dave, what kind of stands do you put them on?

Dave Blackhurst · August 16th, 2012, 11:12 AM

It's got a standard cold shoe mount, so that can attach direct to the camera, and the mount is actually about right for a stubby "handle" you can easily use to just hand hold it while shooting - it's not big or heavy, and isn't exactly a "long throw" light... so I don't think you'd want to bother with a "stand". It does do the trick for "fill" lighting when you just need a little extra "kick" to get the image up to where the camera can capture it.

August 8th, 2012, 07:04 PM	#16
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Re: Candid filming in dark venues - to light or not? Which is why I always have a conversation with the B&G about lighting and if they insist on low low lighting and don't want me to use any additional lighting, I tell them they have to sign off on the fact that I informed them about the lighting and how it will influence the quality of the finished product and that I, as the professional they hired to produce a quality and professional product for them, cannot and will not be held responsible. I will write that on the back of the paperwork and they will sign it or I will not shoot. I also run my camera for the audio during this kind of conversation. You know what? They all agree to up the lighting and or allow me to use some sort of additional lighting. After all, they are paying and want a quality product. Noa, in the case you mentioned, I can see how you were caught between a rock and a hard place. I hope they aren't disappointed in the work you did for them since you did talk to them about it and tried to make your point. I guess the ambience won out. That's too bad for them. All you can do is the best you can under the circumstances and it sounds like you did. __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

August 9th, 2012, 01:02 AM	#17
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Candid filming in dark venues - to light or not? I never have the couple sign anything in regard to not using light and the consequences that might have, I only inform them at the wedding if I run into a situation that my camera's can't handle well, If they still don't want to do anything about it (like last wedding one word from then to the venue manager would have solved the problem) or if they don't want me to do anything about it (with adding lights) I just do what I can and stretch the limitations of my camera as far as possible, in this case it was a 3200 iso on a 14mm f2.8 lens, 1/30th shutter and by using the technicolor cinestyle preset. I was surprised at how much more info the cinestyle preset gave me under these circumstances and after some CC and neatvideo it looks pretty good considering. If the couple would complain, I don't care and I don't expect they would. They knew. It the same with sound, I have had an occasion at the day of the wedding where the groom didn't want me to put that black clipon mic onto his vest because his vest was light brown and he didn't want it to show up on the photo's, I told him the sound would be crap if he did his vows but he was ok with that. When I showed them the video you hardly could hear them but they just kept smiling and thanked me for the nice video :)

August 9th, 2012, 03:28 AM	#18
Peter Rush Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: UK/Yorkshire Posts: 2,069	Re: Candid filming in dark venues - to light or not? Can I just say folks that on the plus side, even though I see my job as being there to document, and not interact particularly - the presence of the camera can actually make people play up a little - which can result in some very amusing footage - it's swings and roundabouts I suppose Also I run Sony Z1, FX1 and HVR A-1E cameras and am not really about to write them all off just yet - especially in the current economic climate - I love the footage from the Z1 cams and using them is just second nature to me now! Pete

August 9th, 2012, 05:26 AM	#19
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Re: Candid filming in dark venues - to light or not? To each his own. __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

August 10th, 2012, 01:50 AM	#20
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Candid filming in dark venues - to light or not? Noa - That light I mentioned is CHEAP... and it really is NOT obtrusive with one of the filters on it - it isn't a "room light", it's a FILL light, meaning it can add JUST A LITTLE, with a limited range and power, which with your 730 should be "just enough". I've tried several of the small dimmable LED's, and they ALL were a little "too" bright, except for this particular one. "Stun gun" is not a good thing, I know what Don means, fortunately we have better options nowadays! And because it's very light and small, you can actually just hold it up if you want to control the light and not have it close to the camera. After the first "live fire" use, I won't leave for a shoot without it! Certain parts of the nighttime outfdoor reception actually NEEDED my light, not just for video reasons! I'm going to pick up a couple more to stick in the other camera bags so I don't "forget" and not have one handy! For an under $20 bit of gear, you can't go too far wrong... worth considering when you've got a couple extra bucks to blow! And my comment on the Z1 was based on low light performance - those early HDV cams were almost as blind as I am in the dark <wink>. Actually up until the "backlit" R sensors hit the streets, low light was pretty rough... us kids got it easy nowadays!

August 16th, 2012, 11:12 AM	#22
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Candid filming in dark venues - to light or not? It's got a standard cold shoe mount, so that can attach direct to the camera, and the mount is actually about right for a stubby "handle" you can easily use to just hand hold it while shooting - it's not big or heavy, and isn't exactly a "long throw" light... so I don't think you'd want to bother with a "stand". It does do the trick for "fill" lighting when you just need a little extra "kick" to get the image up to where the camera can capture it.