How Do You Work with "Posey" Photogs?

[Mike Hammond]

Hi everyone,

Here's something that drives me absolutely nuts every so often.

There are some photogs who are extremely into posing and choreographing every thing about the wedding day. Here's an example of contrasts:

1. Photog who shoots naturally: Couple is ready for the formal exit from the church, crowd stands at ready with bubbles or confetti, tension and excitement builds (OK, maybe it's not that dramatic, LOL but...), couple steps out of church door, crowd goes wild, improptu kisses from couple to great cheers from the guests, etc...

2. Photog who poses: As soon as couple comes out of the doors I hear "OK, hold it right there...hold on...one more...OK come forward....look at the bridal party, bridal party look at couple and girls hold your flowers in the air...OK stop....kiss...hold....hold it.....hold it....OK come forward, Stop, crowd CHEER as loud as you can...everyone look at the couple...ok guys, kiss...hold it...hold it...hold it...."

You get the idea.

I shoot very naturally and all these poses that look great for photos looks like a bizarro carnival world on film. And they completely kill all the life out of the motion of video.

So how do you guys that go natural shoot around this? The most I have found to do is sneak in a few shots during the photo session, or take the couple out for a few minutes during the reception. But they're so used to posing all day that I still get the uncomfortable body languages and creepy stares at the camera. Bizarro world style.

[Andrew Giordano]

I totally hear this. Not much advice except to say, I just deal with it and try harder to find the natural nuggets when I can. I've seen plenty of weddings where the photographer runs the entire day. Personally, I'd hate to be told what to do all day on my wedding. Yes the photos are important, but not more important that my being able to enjoy my day. My directions would be: You run the designated photoshoot sessions but other than that, I don't know wanna know you're there. This ain't about you.

Thing is with photography, since you can shoot so many more photos and re-adjust so many compositions in just a few seconds, the idea of perfection is easier to achieve. Therefore, they're inclined to push for it and insist themselves on the wedding. With videography, you only have so much time to make a few compositions since a single shot generally takes a few seconds at least, then resetting, practicing, etc. (sigh) Wish I was a more successful as a photographer, lol.

[Jeff Harper]

The customer hired the photographer for their style, so in the end as long as the customer is happy, who cares?

How do I deal with portions that I've recorded that look funny to me? I don't include it in the video, or I make it work. I am not at the wedding to direct how it goes, I am there to record what happens, regardless of whether I like it or not.

Photographers will scratch their head at why videographers need to videotape everything, especially their posed shots, so this works both ways.

My advice is to get along and work with the photographer whenever possible, and to make the best of things. We are all just trying to make a living, and everyone has their own style.

[George Kilroy]

I'm in full agreement with Jeff. I'm not there to pass judgement on how others do their job unless it directly affects how I work, what next complain that the vicar is too boring or long winded.

Like Jeff says, the couple engaged a photographer for their style and way of working just as much as they have me for mine. I see my role as capturing the essence and atmosphere of what happens on the day and I'm happy to leave photographers to do all the posing they want to in any sense of the word.

[Mike Hammond]

I have no problem with the photog doing what they do, and that they need to do it. I'm just looking for ideas others have had about still getting good footage with choreography happening all day. I also throw away, or make work, as much of the footage as needed. But there are some photographers who make it extremely difficult.

[Jeff Harper]

Mike, the photographer is not making it difficult. You are. But no worries, we all go through these various learning phases, and there is no escaping it for any of us. It is simply part of the process of becoming more seasoned. In ten years you will still have issues, but they will just be different issues. It's always something.

Here's the real problem as I see it: Like any good videographer, you want things to happen in such a way that it looks good on film, so your video looks good. From your point of view, the photographer is interrupting the flow in such a way that events are not unfolding as you wish them to and you feel he is ruining your video, or something to that effect. I understand this, know what you are talking about.

What to do will vary with each situation, and every situation will be different. You have to be creative, and this has to come from you. You have to go with the flow, even if it does not fit with your notions of what is right.

The bottom line is you simply get the best shot of whatever is happening that you can. A posed shot of the couple kissing can be video gold when used in a highlight reel. When these things happen unexpectedly, you simply have to do the best you can at the time to capture what is happening.

If the photographer stops the couple in the aisle during the processional, your job has not changed. What is your job? To get the best shot we can of whatever is happening at the time.

It might not be the shot your hoped for, but the unexpected moments can also provide some of the best shots for a highlight reel.

We eventually learn, either the hard way or through acceptance, to relinquish the notion that we can control events and instead we become better videographers by learning how to capture whatever is happening.

Ideas for what to do? 1. use your zoom and get a close up. 2. Get a wide shot. 3. Pan away from the couple into the crowd for a reaction shot.

You already know what to do, you're just frustrated because the photographer is not behaving in such a way to make your life easier, and instead he's forcing you to think.

It IS frustrating at times, and all of us know where you're coming from. You just have to be creative, think on your feet, and you will become better for it.

My attitude has been shaped by doing a fair share of weddings. I do complain, like you do, but in the end I am the only one that can know what to do in any given situation. No one can tell me what to do if they are not there to see the situation unfold, and by the time it would be explained to me the moment is lost anyway. So I am stuck with learning as I go along.

[George Kilroy]

Jeff, you've pre-empted my reply so no need for me to post my comments as I couldn't have put it any better. I'm in 100% agreement with you on this.

[Kawika Ohumukini]

I agree with Jeff. I shoot bike races and my wife photographs so we're both sides of the coin. The spectators and other photographers either don't realize I'm there or want to get their shot so just do what they have to. Several are very considerate but some are not and it's understandable. I'm recording the entire day so the law of averages says that I'll get in their way and they in mine at some point. I try not to focus on those rare events and keep the whole event in mind. I'm there to document and entertain so an entire days video will yield way more than enough to do something interesting as a final product. GL in your business.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Mike

My solution during the photo shoot with posed shots is really easy..I don't go on them..I either grab the bridal party before or after the shoot and do my very own shoot..our photogs are more than happy to let me have the B&G for 15 minutes while they do crazy posed shots with the rest of the bridal party and that allows me to do a smooth continuous shoot with the couple without any posing required.

I really could never see any value in the videographer shooting the photographer shooting posed stills of the bridal party so it's not part of my package!!

Chris

[Josh Bass]

I thought this thread was going to be about photographers who only photograph Parker Posey. I'm very disappointed.

[Steve Slattery]

It drives you nuts because you care about the job you do, so in a way thats a good things. I too hate this kind of thing but TBH its out of my control on the actual day, I now take a more proactive role before hand and find out whos gonna be shooting the stills, if its someone I havent worked with before I usually call them to get the low down on how they work.

Having said that I still get photogs saying they shoot reportage and then on teh day choreographing situations that would be better left to evolve naturally.

Steve

[Nigel Barker]

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

I really could never see any value in the videographer shooting the photographer shooting posed stills of the bridal party so it's not part of my package!!

I'm the opposite. I always like to shoot some or all of the photo shoot. It's part of the day & I usually get some nice candid shots when people are larking about & waiting to actually be photographed.

[Don Bloom]

Nigel, I'm with you although I may not shoot the really big groups of extended family. There are a couple of things I like to pose myself and the photog usually cover that over me but I insitst on no flash when they do that and they go along with it. Plus I can get my DVD face shot and my menu shot from that session.
If the photog wants to pose everyone for everything at that time great. I look for candid stuff and cover what I think is needed.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Mike Hammond

So how do you guys that go natural shoot around this?

I don't.

The master of ceremonies most often tells the couple how to pose outside the church, where to stand, when guests are allowed to throw rise etc... (he does a count-down) I have had some photogs doing this but not that much. But I absolutely HATE it when they do this.

Here the groom sees his bride for the first time in the morning, he knocks on the door, she opens and he gives his flowers to her, they kiss, she cries, family (that stands outside) applauds, nothing spectacular. But there was a MC a few weeks ago that lined up all the family outside first (in a straight line standing side by side), then told the groom where to stand, he told the groom to walk to the door, knock with his right hand (he had the flowers in his left hand so guess it's an important detail) and then take a few steps back.

I also had a photog that during that first meet in the morning first asked to groom to ring the bell, then the photog opened the door, asked the bride to come down while she took pictures (groom was still waiting outside, standing right next to the photog and he could allready see his bride for the first time posing for the photog but he had to wait, and then the photog came standing next to me and shouted that the bride could come out of the door.

I also had some photogs asking bride and groom to redo that first meet, they didn't take any pictures when they saw eachother for the first time but found it better to pose the whole thing so they'd have more controll (they where with 2) I filmed their first meet and then watched the photogs doing it again which looked soo fake.

It is what it is, if the MC or the photog asks people to pose there's not much I can do about it, I just let it happen and film it in that way.

[Warren Kawamoto]

You'll always find something "wrong" happening at every wedding. Photographer gets in the way, the lighting will be too bright or too dark, no smiles from the couple, people standing up to take pictures with their camera phones, the sound system sounds crappy, etc. It always happens, and always will happen. But you are a professional. As a professional, work with the situation and turn lemons into lemonade. No matter what kind of crap is thrown at you, keep shooting and make every situation work. You can't always change what's going on around you, but you can always change your own actions. A loser stops, throws his hands up in the air, and complains about how the world is not cooperating with his idea of an ideal situation. A winner keeps shooting, making constant adjustments to himself in order to keep ahead of the current situation, and keeps going, knowing that the situation could change again the next second. Always try to think ahead, but know that what you plan may change at any instant, at which time you'll have to make adjustments. Wedding videography is thinking quickly on your feet!