Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?

Chris Harding · June 1st, 2012, 05:43 AM

Hi George

I have never been asked not to film the actual signing here..both civil and Church weddings but I do have an idea that they circumvent the problem in a Church by pre-signing some documents at the rehearsal...I will often see brides and their future hubby doing paperwork with the priest and at the ceremony they just sign a certificate.

Yeah, I like to be organised and stress free too..photogs on the other hand seem to like to live on the edge and no show up at rehearsal and then do their best at the wedding to totally frustrate both the priest and the videographer.

Chris

George Kilroy · June 1st, 2012, 06:35 AM

Chris, churches don't usually, in fact rarely, impose a no filming the register rule, but increasingly civil ceremony registrars will not allow any filming that might include the details on the register. The reasons they give are variations of those that Nigel mentioned, some will state that it's illegal to photograph/film the legal document for copyright reasons (!), yet others, even in the same district, will be more liberal.
This is even rarer but I have been told by the registrar in one large town here to turn off a second camera - he said that the official list of requirements that he gives to couples clearly states that he will allow only one camera to be positioned where he says. The couple either missed that or ignored it but either way they didn't tell me. Thankfully I rarely get asked to go there and most don't book me after I now tell them; they probably get someone who says they'll ignore his ruling, or shoot surreptitiously.

John Knight · June 2nd, 2012, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Kilroy

This is even rarer but I have been told by the registrar in one large town here to turn off a second camera -

I had this once too in a Catholic wedding. I agreed and told the priest I would leave the b-cam in place not running in case I had problems with my first camera. Switched off front red lamp, left it running anyway. Worked a treat. At later weddings I informed him I had 2 b-cams in place as backup (not running) and he was happy with that.

One day the fool will see my beautiful 3-cam coverage and blow his stack. Sucker.

Peter Riding · June 3rd, 2012, 02:17 AM

In my area (Thames Valley, London, and beyond) civil ceremonies are the majority and most of the officiants are female; so good luck trying to get them to routinely wear lavs and radio transmitters!

The arrival of good quality small form factor digital recorders and the ability to sync the output in post in seconds using Pluraleyes has changed everything.

You'd be very unlucky if you cannot get at least one Zoom H1 hidden close enough to pick up the vows whether it be a civil or church venue - though churches can be more challenging because usually there is more space separating the couple from the nearest hiding place.

Often, if there is a table separating the couple and the celebrant I just drop a Zoom H1 into the flower arrangement on the table. At yesterdays wedding there was a 4 stick candelabra decorated with vine on an adjacent table. I used a short articulating arm and mini clamp to hold an H1 hidden in the candelabra. Perfect.

The articulating arms are available cheap on Ebay, example:

7" inch Articulating Magic Arm for mounting HDMI Monitor LED lights Camera LF13 | eBay

That version comes with a removable hotshoe adapter. Its the 7" version. There are also longer 11" versions. And there are versions that come with the hotshoe adapter and a mini superclamp. If you already have the arms you can buy the clamps separately:

Articulating Magic Friction Arm Small Super Clamp For Dslr rig HDV-Z96 LED LIGHT | eBay

I recommend these clamps with the T-bar tightener as that gives you more room to set up in very confined situations such as when clamping to furniture or fixtures / window frames etc.

There are also various other heavier duty clamps including this from Delkin which works surprisingly well on windows and can easily take the weight of camcorders such as the TM900:

Delkin Fat Gecko Camera Mount: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

You can of course also use the various mini-tripods etc where appropriate.

H1's are so cheap its feasible to place several to cover not only where couples and celebrants should be but where they might stray to :- )

I'm also a user of Zoom H4n's but these are rather larger and more intrusive that their little brothers for no real gain in audio quality (they have greater functionality though).

Placing recorders near to but not on the participants cannot give you the crystal clear audio of a lav for obvious reasons. However it is probably more realistic of the guests experience as there is not such a huge difference between e.g. the sound of the groom speaking his vows and the ambient sound of hymn singing.

This method is also much quicker when setting up - something that matters a lot to me as I work alone and part of my USP is that the whole experience is very unintrusive.

Pete

Nigel Barker · June 3rd, 2012, 08:32 AM

I have just bought a couple of Yamaha C24 digital recorders which are even smaller & more unobtrusive than the Zoom H1. The also come with a nifty clothes peg style clip that allows them to be attached to tables, floral decorations etc.

Peter Riding · June 3rd, 2012, 01:55 PM

Nigel, they look excellent other than they don't appear to have a tripod socket onboard. Is that the case? They'd still be a better choice than the H1 for dropping into a pocket but I wouldn't want to do without the flexibilty to use a variety of mounting clamps rather than just the one that the Yamaha comes with (whose jaws may well be too narrow to fit around many venue fixtures).

Just noticed as well that the pickup is wide and that is considered a virtue; think I prefer a narrower pickup especially on those occasions where a screaming toddler clips your audio :- )

I like the feature they have of the switchable mic in / line in. With the two variations of the Zoom I sometimes have to use a pad cable to reduce the input to the - mic only - socket if I'm taking a lead off of a DJs board or similar.

Pete

Nigel Barker · June 4th, 2012, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Riding

Nigel, they look excellent other than they don't appear to have a tripod socket onboard. Is that the case? They'd still be a better choice than the H1 for dropping into a pocket but I wouldn't want to do without the flexibilty to use a variety of mounting clamps rather than just the one that the Yamaha comes with (whose jaws may well be too narrow to fit around many venue fixtures).

Just noticed as well that the pickup is wide and that is considered a virtue; think I prefer a narrower pickup especially on those occasions where a screaming toddler clips your audio :- )

I like the feature they have of the switchable mic in / line in. With the two variations of the Zoom I sometimes have to use a pad cable to reduce the input to the - mic only - socket if I'm taking a lead off of a DJs board or similar.

Pete

They don't have a tripod mount & that clip that they come with is the only means of mounting them on anything. They are much better than the H1 for dropping in a pocket as they are so much slimmer & they work well with cheap lav mics that I bought from CPC. It's horses for courses as aside from several of the little Yamaha recorders I also have the choice of a couples of H1s & an H4N & a Tascam DR-100. You can never have too much audio even if it's just for backup.

Tim Bakland · June 4th, 2012, 04:36 PM

Hi, Katie,

Good post topic.

I generally (like Don B) mic the groom and the lectern. If the speakers on the side of the sanctuary are low enough, I'll put a mic on a stand close to one of them (which pics up everything nicely).

Nothing on the Priest himself. To me, this gets acceptable audio - and never heard anything but good feedback from the couples.

Chris Harding · June 5th, 2012, 12:38 AM

Thanks all I ever do!!

One on the groom and one on the lectern..I think once I had to mic the priest as the groom refused to wear a mic so they arranged for the priest to wear it and he stood in close to the couple during vows.

For vows a groom mic is more than adequate!!

Chris

Nigel Barker · June 5th, 2012, 02:29 AM

I too mic the groom & put a Zoom H1 or Yamaha C24 digital recorder or two on lectern, altar ceremony table etc (you can never have too much audio). One tip that I picked up a while ago is to clip the lav mic quite low down on the groom's lapel & orient it upside down. This ensures a more even pick up from the bride & celebrant along with the groom's voice.

Katie Fasel · June 5th, 2012, 07:05 AM

I'm glad this thread is getting so much response. It seems like everyone has a pretty similar audio tactic...mic the groom and a recorder on the lectern...drop another recorder somewhere else hidden. We also like to set one up on a little tripod under the piano (when a piano is used)...or smack in the middle of the string quartet. makes the music sound really great.

We've never had any complaints about audio, even in a big echo-ey churches it's just my own nitpicking that makes me want to mic the priest / officiant...like Nigel, we also tend to put the groom's mic lower and upside down. Not only does it get a good pick up of the three major players, but it also makes it easier to avoid sniffle sounds and "popping" P's and similar.

Thomas Smet · June 9th, 2012, 06:41 AM

A couple of methods I used to use when I shot weddings.

1. Shotgun mic
2. Buy a wireless plugin adapter and plug into the churches audio board.
3. Plug a portable audio recorder into the churches audio board.
4. If the board is close enough just run a cable to the board from your camera.
5. Use a stand and mic or recorder and place it near a speaker.
6. Ask if the priest will use a small pocket audio recorder instead. Many times they were just done in by wireless mic interference once and have a blanket rule against wireless.
7. Tape a lav to the floor right in between where the couple and the priest will stand. So-so results but it would balance out between the three of them.
8. Have it in your contract that you are not responsible for church restrictions. This will at least save your behind.
9. Have the bride talk to the Priest. They are more likely to listen to a member of their church / family friend / relative / paying customer then some random video person who just shows up and starts demanding mic placement.
10. Be friends with the Priest. They like nice people just as much as you do. They have a job and that is to perform a ceremony with no complications or problems. They are going to be very protective of their church and the way they do things. Keep in mind that Priests have been doing many of us a favor by evening allowing us to shoot in their churches. Be kind and become friends with the Priest and that can go a long way. It may mean the difference between throwing a couple of jobs your way or making your life hell when you shoot at that church.

June 1st, 2012, 05:43 AM	#31
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope? Hi George I have never been asked not to film the actual signing here..both civil and Church weddings but I do have an idea that they circumvent the problem in a Church by pre-signing some documents at the rehearsal...I will often see brides and their future hubby doing paperwork with the priest and at the ceremony they just sign a certificate. Yeah, I like to be organised and stress free too..photogs on the other hand seem to like to live on the edge and no show up at rehearsal and then do their best at the wedding to totally frustrate both the priest and the videographer. Chris

June 1st, 2012, 06:35 AM	#32
George Kilroy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 699	Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope? Chris, churches don't usually, in fact rarely, impose a no filming the register rule, but increasingly civil ceremony registrars will not allow any filming that might include the details on the register. The reasons they give are variations of those that Nigel mentioned, some will state that it's illegal to photograph/film the legal document for copyright reasons (!), yet others, even in the same district, will be more liberal. This is even rarer but I have been told by the registrar in one large town here to turn off a second camera - he said that the official list of requirements that he gives to couples clearly states that he will allow only one camera to be positioned where he says. The couple either missed that or ignored it but either way they didn't tell me. Thankfully I rarely get asked to go there and most don't book me after I now tell them; they probably get someone who says they'll ignore his ruling, or shoot surreptitiously.

June 3rd, 2012, 02:17 AM	#34
Peter Riding Major Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Reading Berkshire UK Posts: 872	Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope? In my area (Thames Valley, London, and beyond) civil ceremonies are the majority and most of the officiants are female; so good luck trying to get them to routinely wear lavs and radio transmitters! The arrival of good quality small form factor digital recorders and the ability to sync the output in post in seconds using Pluraleyes has changed everything. You'd be very unlucky if you cannot get at least one Zoom H1 hidden close enough to pick up the vows whether it be a civil or church venue - though churches can be more challenging because usually there is more space separating the couple from the nearest hiding place. Often, if there is a table separating the couple and the celebrant I just drop a Zoom H1 into the flower arrangement on the table. At yesterdays wedding there was a 4 stick candelabra decorated with vine on an adjacent table. I used a short articulating arm and mini clamp to hold an H1 hidden in the candelabra. Perfect. The articulating arms are available cheap on Ebay, example: 7" inch Articulating Magic Arm for mounting HDMI Monitor LED lights Camera LF13 \| eBay That version comes with a removable hotshoe adapter. Its the 7" version. There are also longer 11" versions. And there are versions that come with the hotshoe adapter and a mini superclamp. If you already have the arms you can buy the clamps separately: Articulating Magic Friction Arm Small Super Clamp For Dslr rig HDV-Z96 LED LIGHT \| eBay I recommend these clamps with the T-bar tightener as that gives you more room to set up in very confined situations such as when clamping to furniture or fixtures / window frames etc. There are also various other heavier duty clamps including this from Delkin which works surprisingly well on windows and can easily take the weight of camcorders such as the TM900: Delkin Fat Gecko Camera Mount: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics Delkin Fat Gecko Camera Mount: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics You can of course also use the various mini-tripods etc where appropriate. H1's are so cheap its feasible to place several to cover not only where couples and celebrants should be but where they might stray to :- ) I'm also a user of Zoom H4n's but these are rather larger and more intrusive that their little brothers for no real gain in audio quality (they have greater functionality though). Placing recorders near to but not on the participants cannot give you the crystal clear audio of a lav for obvious reasons. However it is probably more realistic of the guests experience as there is not such a huge difference between e.g. the sound of the groom speaking his vows and the ambient sound of hymn singing. This method is also much quicker when setting up - something that matters a lot to me as I work alone and part of my USP is that the whole experience is very unintrusive. Pete

June 3rd, 2012, 08:32 AM	#35
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope? I have just bought a couple of Yamaha C24 digital recorders which are even smaller & more unobtrusive than the Zoom H1. The also come with a nifty clothes peg style clip that allows them to be attached to tables, floral decorations etc.

June 3rd, 2012, 01:55 PM	#36
Peter Riding Major Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Reading Berkshire UK Posts: 872	Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope? Nigel, they look excellent other than they don't appear to have a tripod socket onboard. Is that the case? They'd still be a better choice than the H1 for dropping into a pocket but I wouldn't want to do without the flexibilty to use a variety of mounting clamps rather than just the one that the Yamaha comes with (whose jaws may well be too narrow to fit around many venue fixtures). Just noticed as well that the pickup is wide and that is considered a virtue; think I prefer a narrower pickup especially on those occasions where a screaming toddler clips your audio :- ) I like the feature they have of the switchable mic in / line in. With the two variations of the Zoom I sometimes have to use a pad cable to reduce the input to the - mic only - socket if I'm taking a lead off of a DJs board or similar. Pete

June 4th, 2012, 04:36 PM	#38
Tim Bakland Major Player Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Beverly, MA Posts: 512	Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope? Hi, Katie, Good post topic. I generally (like Don B) mic the groom and the lectern. If the speakers on the side of the sanctuary are low enough, I'll put a mic on a stand close to one of them (which pics up everything nicely). Nothing on the Priest himself. To me, this gets acceptable audio - and never heard anything but good feedback from the couples. __________________ Event Videography, New England www.timothybakland.com

June 5th, 2012, 12:38 AM	#39
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope? Thanks all I ever do!! One on the groom and one on the lectern..I think once I had to mic the priest as the groom refused to wear a mic so they arranged for the priest to wear it and he stood in close to the couple during vows. For vows a groom mic is more than adequate!! Chris

June 5th, 2012, 02:29 AM	#40
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope? I too mic the groom & put a Zoom H1 or Yamaha C24 digital recorder or two on lectern, altar ceremony table etc (you can never have too much audio). One tip that I picked up a while ago is to clip the lav mic quite low down on the groom's lapel & orient it upside down. This ensures a more even pick up from the bride & celebrant along with the groom's voice.

June 5th, 2012, 07:05 AM	#41
Katie Fasel Major Player Join Date: May 2011 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 236	Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope? I'm glad this thread is getting so much response. It seems like everyone has a pretty similar audio tactic...mic the groom and a recorder on the lectern...drop another recorder somewhere else hidden. We also like to set one up on a little tripod under the piano (when a piano is used)...or smack in the middle of the string quartet. makes the music sound really great. We've never had any complaints about audio, even in a big echo-ey churches it's just my own nitpicking that makes me want to mic the priest / officiant...like Nigel, we also tend to put the groom's mic lower and upside down. Not only does it get a good pick up of the three major players, but it also makes it easier to avoid sniffle sounds and "popping" P's and similar.

June 9th, 2012, 06:41 AM	#42
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope? A couple of methods I used to use when I shot weddings. 1. Shotgun mic 2. Buy a wireless plugin adapter and plug into the churches audio board. 3. Plug a portable audio recorder into the churches audio board. 4. If the board is close enough just run a cable to the board from your camera. 5. Use a stand and mic or recorder and place it near a speaker. 6. Ask if the priest will use a small pocket audio recorder instead. Many times they were just done in by wireless mic interference once and have a blanket rule against wireless. 7. Tape a lav to the floor right in between where the couple and the priest will stand. So-so results but it would balance out between the three of them. 8. Have it in your contract that you are not responsible for church restrictions. This will at least save your behind. 9. Have the bride talk to the Priest. They are more likely to listen to a member of their church / family friend / relative / paying customer then some random video person who just shows up and starts demanding mic placement. 10. Be friends with the Priest. They like nice people just as much as you do. They have a job and that is to perform a ceremony with no complications or problems. They are going to be very protective of their church and the way they do things. Keep in mind that Priests have been doing many of us a favor by evening allowing us to shoot in their churches. Be kind and become friends with the Priest and that can go a long way. It may mean the difference between throwing a couple of jobs your way or making your life hell when you shoot at that church.