Long DVDs, What Bit Rate?

Claire Buckley · February 4th, 2012, 06:44 AM

I've been following this thread with interest and quite surprised to read of such low sample rates being used in order to fit large content on to a single layer DVD.

I'm an Adobe CS5.5 user with Encore & Adobe Media Encoder, but I also use IMGBurn for some jobs (more about that later).

I have been using Verbatum Dual Layer DVD+R DL for a few years and have only had one customer who had an issue out of a set of 4 I provided. So no compatibility issue, simply a dodgy disc.

I'm shooting and editing to an HDV timline, of programme content sizes of between 60 mins (singe layer) and 65-100 minutes (dual layer).

For standard format burning for all lengths I create a master final encoded at 9mb/s (the max allowed in Adobe Media Encoder for the DVD MPEG-2 format).

The idea is to set to the DVD standard format in order that Abobe Encore does not re-transcode the content into the "DVD legal" settings Adobe has set. So the specification of your encoded Master Final needs to be correct before passing it to the Encore burner. I guess the same would apply to other DVD burner software for the appropriate format specifications.

In adobe Encore I max the bitrate setting to 9.4mb/s to ensure best quality, and use 4x write speed.

I get 100 minutes of content on the DL.

For customers with DVD player issues I do not use Adobe Encore (potential issues often recognised as the older type of players which were arround before the introduction of DVD+R DL types) but use IMGBurn software. In such situations I would suggest:

1. Make sure your DVD writer firmware is up-to-date.
2. Make sure your Book Type setting is set to ROM. If you don't know what Book Type setting is then I suggest a little background reading.
3. Burn at x2.4.

For users with older DVD players I create an image, rather than burn the disc direct. Using IMGBurn software, I set Book Type to ROM and write speed to x2.4. The image is burned using those settings to an LG DVD writer.

As my biggest orders are for less than 100 DVDs (schools and organisations), I use the Image method of burning and pass the content to a dedicated writer setup to Book Type ROM using IMGBurn in order to max the DVD player compatibility (often stated at around 90%). It also frees up my workstation in order I can get on with the print and graphics.

As a result of using this workflow, I have never had a problem with compatibility or failure to play, and get the best quality by not trying to reduce bitrates which easily impact upon the quality of the end result. Simply asking the client (weddings & events) how old their DVD player is, can tell you a lot and help avoid any issues.

I only use single layer (verbatum) DVDs for content of 60 minutes or less, everything else gets the DL treatment. Longer than 100 minutes of content, then yes, it becomes a two disc set. But I do NOT compromise bitrate, and therefore compromise the quality especially as almost everyone today wants to play their DVD on a 42" or more screen.

Hope this helps.

:)

Tom Hardwick · February 4th, 2012, 06:57 AM

I'm with Chris and like to supply a two-disc set if the film's more than 1 hr 45, say. It looks 'better value' as well as giving better pictures. As a plus point a wedding usually has a choice of split points - making the first disc: arrivals, church and photography (the best bits) and the second disc the speeches and dancing. Both discs will have my day's montage included - in colour on disc one and b & w on disc two.

Tim's 'double layer all the way' approach seems to be fine with DVD players these days, but funnily enough it's the owners of HD-DVD and Blu-ray players that find these double layer discs unreliable.

tom.

Harm Millaard · February 4th, 2012, 07:35 AM

It surprises me no-one mentioned this bitrate calculator: DVD-HQ : Bitrate & GOP calculator

Whatever the length of your timeline, you should always try to minimize compression for the best quality.

Claire Buckley · February 5th, 2012, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

...but funnily enough it's the owners of HD-DVD and Blu-ray players that find these double layer discs unreliable.

tom.

I disagree. My experience and the experience of others burning with the correct Book Type settings show otherwise.

:)

February 4th, 2012, 06:44 AM	#16
Claire Buckley Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: UK Posts: 176	Re: Long DVDs, What Bit Rate? I've been following this thread with interest and quite surprised to read of such low sample rates being used in order to fit large content on to a single layer DVD. I'm an Adobe CS5.5 user with Encore & Adobe Media Encoder, but I also use IMGBurn for some jobs (more about that later). I have been using Verbatum Dual Layer DVD+R DL for a few years and have only had one customer who had an issue out of a set of 4 I provided. So no compatibility issue, simply a dodgy disc. I'm shooting and editing to an HDV timline, of programme content sizes of between 60 mins (singe layer) and 65-100 minutes (dual layer). For standard format burning for all lengths I create a master final encoded at 9mb/s (the max allowed in Adobe Media Encoder for the DVD MPEG-2 format). The idea is to set to the DVD standard format in order that Abobe Encore does not re-transcode the content into the "DVD legal" settings Adobe has set. So the specification of your encoded Master Final needs to be correct before passing it to the Encore burner. I guess the same would apply to other DVD burner software for the appropriate format specifications. In adobe Encore I max the bitrate setting to 9.4mb/s to ensure best quality, and use 4x write speed. I get 100 minutes of content on the DL. For customers with DVD player issues I do not use Adobe Encore (potential issues often recognised as the older type of players which were arround before the introduction of DVD+R DL types) but use IMGBurn software. In such situations I would suggest: 1. Make sure your DVD writer firmware is up-to-date. 2. Make sure your Book Type setting is set to ROM. If you don't know what Book Type setting is then I suggest a little background reading. 3. Burn at x2.4. For users with older DVD players I create an image, rather than burn the disc direct. Using IMGBurn software, I set Book Type to ROM and write speed to x2.4. The image is burned using those settings to an LG DVD writer. As my biggest orders are for less than 100 DVDs (schools and organisations), I use the Image method of burning and pass the content to a dedicated writer setup to Book Type ROM using IMGBurn in order to max the DVD player compatibility (often stated at around 90%). It also frees up my workstation in order I can get on with the print and graphics. As a result of using this workflow, I have never had a problem with compatibility or failure to play, and get the best quality by not trying to reduce bitrates which easily impact upon the quality of the end result. Simply asking the client (weddings & events) how old their DVD player is, can tell you a lot and help avoid any issues. I only use single layer (verbatum) DVDs for content of 60 minutes or less, everything else gets the DL treatment. Longer than 100 minutes of content, then yes, it becomes a two disc set. But I do NOT compromise bitrate, and therefore compromise the quality especially as almost everyone today wants to play their DVD on a 42" or more screen. Hope this helps. :) __________________ Women don't hit harder, they just hit lower!

February 4th, 2012, 06:57 AM	#17
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Re: Long DVDs, What Bit Rate? I'm with Chris and like to supply a two-disc set if the film's more than 1 hr 45, say. It looks 'better value' as well as giving better pictures. As a plus point a wedding usually has a choice of split points - making the first disc: arrivals, church and photography (the best bits) and the second disc the speeches and dancing. Both discs will have my day's montage included - in colour on disc one and b & w on disc two. Tim's 'double layer all the way' approach seems to be fine with DVD players these days, but funnily enough it's the owners of HD-DVD and Blu-ray players that find these double layer discs unreliable. tom.

February 4th, 2012, 07:35 AM	#18
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	Re: Long DVDs, What Bit Rate? It surprises me no-one mentioned this bitrate calculator: DVD-HQ : Bitrate & GOP calculator Whatever the length of your timeline, you should always try to minimize compression for the best quality.