Toasts at DVinfo.net

David Schmaus · August 10th, 2011, 08:11 AM

How many cameras do you run during the toast. One on speaker, one on B&G and one on audience?

Paul Mailath · August 10th, 2011, 08:19 AM

Yep - manned cameras on the speaker & B&G and fixed camera on the guests to grab applause, toasts etc

Chris Harding · August 10th, 2011, 08:48 AM

Hi David

I just run two...main cam on the speaker with a softbox as well so we get neat lighting and that is basically "semi-manned" (I check it now and again as our speeches are all done from a lectern) The 2nd cam is on my shoulder to shoot cutaways in general and also lock onto whoever the speaker is talking about so I run around the room a bit trying to figure out where Aunt Jessie is sitting who is being thanked cos she made the cake. Most are just the guests, guests raising their glasses and then plenty of the bride and groom and wedding party.

Chris

David Schmaus · August 10th, 2011, 09:12 AM

Thank you both. I ran two this weekend. One on the speaker and one on the B&G. It seemed to work well except I framed the speaker to close so when they started moving around I was stuck a bit. (DSLR - Prime lens)

I do love the prime lens but it looks like I am going to have to give them up for zooms.

Michael Clark · August 10th, 2011, 09:44 AM

I also run two - one on speaker, one on B&G. A lot of times they are in the same place, so I can do a wide shot with all three of them in one shot, and a tighter shot with just the speaker. I will also move the wide shot around some, to get crowd shots, etc. I sync these two with audio I capture from the sound board (if available). If there's a speaker stand, I'll also put an H4n there.

Travis Cossel · August 10th, 2011, 07:26 PM

Three cameras ... on tripod with 70-200 on toaster ... on tripod with 24-70 on couple ... on monopod with 70-200 for tight audience reactions.

I asked in the other thread why you were using all primes but maybe it's better for you to answer here in your own thread.

David Schmaus · August 11th, 2011, 06:35 AM

I shouldn't be using all primes. I am a photographer and have been doing video for business for the last year. The primes are not a issue when producing a short business video.

I do need to let them go though... I am actually thinking about selling the 5dii + primes and buying 3 t3is with 24-70's. It pains me in a way but I have looked at Joel's stuff (weddingfilms.com) and it looks nice. He uses 3 or 4 t2is . The fact that I can hack the firmware and the t3i will automatically restart after it hits the 4 gig mark makes me happy. + 24-70 using x3 digital zoom gives me all the range I need.

Travis Cossel · August 11th, 2011, 08:47 AM

I'd say you're on the right track then. At the end of the the day I always say do what works best for YOU. I will say, though, that there is a bit of a fanatical craze in the industry right now to use all primes. Often it's touted as a snobbish badge of honor .. as in ... "I'm shooting all primes." ... as if this magically makes one a better filmmaker or storyteller.

Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, but trust me I see/hear it all the time. The truth is you don't 'need' a single prime to tell an awesome wedding day story. Do primes have advantages in certain situations, of course. But in many situations at a live event they are more of a liability than people will admit.

The zooms we use the most are the 17-55 2.8, 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8. I'm not so happy with the 24-70 though as it seems a bit soft to me. Might be replacing it with something else.

David Schmaus · August 11th, 2011, 11:09 AM

Funny you say that. I sold my 24-70 to get the 35 1.4 because the 24-70 was to soft. Might have to look else where on that....

Travis Cossel · August 11th, 2011, 11:58 AM

Interesting. I was wondering if it was just me. Guess not.

Jeff Harper · August 11th, 2011, 12:44 PM

I'm not experienced in the matters of primes vs zooms. I have, however, in the last few years paid close attention to aspects of photographers workflow, as I tend to be friendly with them, and I ask lots of questions, it's just my nature, as I'm interested in what they do.

The way an individual photog works seem to depend mostly on their level of experience. Many have told me they used primes when they started out, but virtually every one moved to zoom lenses at some point.

They use primes for certain situations, and seem to regard primes as specialty lenses.

IMO, overusing primes causes one to have to adjust your shooting to accomodate your lens, whereas a zoom allows you to capture the story more efficiently. Primes cause a "tail wagging the dog" scenario oftentimes.

Beginners use kit lense, then discover primes, and think they have found the "secret" that everyone else is missing to great images. Primes are great, but this is a scenario that has been playing out for years with photographers, it's a syndrome. And yes these guys become insufferable snobs about it.

We have hundreds of videographers new to interchangeable lenses who are going through this now. Eventually, those that stick with this format for any length of time will move to zooms, as there really isn't much choice. Primes cause needless work, and are a major pain when doing event work.

I run a 20mm or 30mm and a 50mm, and on rare occasion a 135mm. But I also use two zooms at the same time. I love the looks of primes, can't be beat. Everyone knows this. But as experience takes hold, primes because less important than the ability to get the shot.

John Wiley · August 11th, 2011, 05:57 PM

I agree - there's a few times when primes can shine but uncontrolled situations at weddings are generally not one of them.

I only ever use my Pentax 50mm f/1.7 when it's too dark and I have no other choice, because it is just not flexible enough. Maybe if I had a 30mm or 24mm I would use it more, but, even for something relatively predictable like speeches at a lecturn, the ability to quickly and easily recompose is great. You never know when a 6'5" best man and a 4'9" maid of honour are going to decide to do their speech together and leave you caught out unable to fit them both in the frame.

Tim Bakland · August 11th, 2011, 08:17 PM

Unpopular answer, but:

1 camera (almost always). I work alone, but for an occasional assistant -- and that assistant is often only for the ceremony. I am still able to get reactions shots in toasts, though, which is totally doable if you are at the right angle and time everything right. And I always tap into the soundboard for good audio and use an LED for good light, etc.

I post this in part just for the sake of promoting the idea that one can have a successful business going it alone (I do most of the time) with careful camera work, editing and all the rest. Not to take away from the other responses here -- not at all! But I do want to give an occasional shout-out to the one man business model. I work in a competitive market, but I see too many companies (at least in my neck of the woods) falling prey to the idea more is always more.

Chris Harding · August 11th, 2011, 11:26 PM

Hi Tim

Nothing wrong with a single person shoot at all..I have been doing it for years without any issues. I do use an assistant however if I'm doing both the groom prep and bride prep, especially if they are miles apart!!
My assistant will do one prep and I'll do the other and then she will assist at the ceremony.

There is really no reason at all to have an assistant at the reception IMHO, what can you really give the bride that's better??? A dual angle shoot of the first dance?? More often than not you would end up with footage of your assistant.

During the bridal entrance here, I use on camera on the MC (who is behind a lectern and therefore stationary) and just let it run and then use the second cam to film the bridal party pairs arriving in the room.

In fact apart from the ceremony, bridal entry and speeches I only need one camera to adequately cover the event.

Chris

John Knight · August 12th, 2011, 12:24 AM

I'm with Chris and Tim.

Single (real) video camera for speeches. Slow pans between speaker and head table. Crash zoom to wide on applause. Edit out the crash zooms.

After surveying a few couples, I've found most say the didn't even rewatch the speeches as the were 'funny at the time' but boring as hell afterwards. Why bust my balls making it epic.

That being said - I had this AWESOME genuine couple once... bride was a total fox and the whole day was quite emotional. I used a second unmanned camera as a closeup for reactions and it added a whole new dimension to the speeches. Really really worthwhile.

But most my clients are total munters so they wouldn't appreciate the extra effort and are probably yawning or knocking back the booze - which looks bad on cutaways. For the right couple though - it's worth it.

August 10th, 2011, 08:11 AM	#1
David Schmaus Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 32	Toasts How many cameras do you run during the toast. One on speaker, one on B&G and one on audience?

August 10th, 2011, 08:19 AM	#2
Paul Mailath Trustee Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Central Coast - NSW, Australia Posts: 1,606	Re: Toasts Yep - manned cameras on the speaker & B&G and fixed camera on the guests to grab applause, toasts etc __________________ Cheers - Paul M. www.perbenyik.com

August 10th, 2011, 08:48 AM	#3
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Toasts Hi David I just run two...main cam on the speaker with a softbox as well so we get neat lighting and that is basically "semi-manned" (I check it now and again as our speeches are all done from a lectern) The 2nd cam is on my shoulder to shoot cutaways in general and also lock onto whoever the speaker is talking about so I run around the room a bit trying to figure out where Aunt Jessie is sitting who is being thanked cos she made the cake. Most are just the guests, guests raising their glasses and then plenty of the bride and groom and wedding party. Chris

August 10th, 2011, 09:12 AM	#4
David Schmaus Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 32	Re: Toasts Thank you both. I ran two this weekend. One on the speaker and one on the B&G. It seemed to work well except I framed the speaker to close so when they started moving around I was stuck a bit. (DSLR - Prime lens) I do love the prime lens but it looks like I am going to have to give them up for zooms.

August 10th, 2011, 09:44 AM	#5
Michael Clark Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chattanooga, TN Posts: 244	Re: Toasts I also run two - one on speaker, one on B&G. A lot of times they are in the same place, so I can do a wide shot with all three of them in one shot, and a tighter shot with just the speaker. I will also move the wide shot around some, to get crowd shots, etc. I sync these two with audio I capture from the sound board (if available). If there's a speaker stand, I'll also put an H4n there. __________________ www.clarkvideoproductions.com

August 10th, 2011, 07:26 PM	#6
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	Re: Toasts Three cameras ... on tripod with 70-200 on toaster ... on tripod with 24-70 on couple ... on monopod with 70-200 for tight audience reactions. I asked in the other thread why you were using all primes but maybe it's better for you to answer here in your own thread. __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

August 11th, 2011, 06:35 AM	#7
David Schmaus Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 32	Re: Toasts I shouldn't be using all primes. I am a photographer and have been doing video for business for the last year. The primes are not a issue when producing a short business video. I do need to let them go though... I am actually thinking about selling the 5dii + primes and buying 3 t3is with 24-70's. It pains me in a way but I have looked at Joel's stuff (weddingfilms.com) and it looks nice. He uses 3 or 4 t2is . The fact that I can hack the firmware and the t3i will automatically restart after it hits the 4 gig mark makes me happy. + 24-70 using x3 digital zoom gives me all the range I need.

August 11th, 2011, 08:47 AM	#8
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	Re: Toasts I'd say you're on the right track then. At the end of the the day I always say do what works best for YOU. I will say, though, that there is a bit of a fanatical craze in the industry right now to use all primes. Often it's touted as a snobbish badge of honor .. as in ... "I'm shooting all primes." ... as if this magically makes one a better filmmaker or storyteller. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, but trust me I see/hear it all the time. The truth is you don't 'need' a single prime to tell an awesome wedding day story. Do primes have advantages in certain situations, of course. But in many situations at a live event they are more of a liability than people will admit. The zooms we use the most are the 17-55 2.8, 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8. I'm not so happy with the 24-70 though as it seems a bit soft to me. Might be replacing it with something else. __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

August 11th, 2011, 11:09 AM	#9
David Schmaus Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 32	Re: Toasts Funny you say that. I sold my 24-70 to get the 35 1.4 because the 24-70 was to soft. Might have to look else where on that....

August 11th, 2011, 11:58 AM	#10
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	Re: Toasts Interesting. I was wondering if it was just me. Guess not. __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

August 11th, 2011, 12:44 PM	#11
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Toasts I'm not experienced in the matters of primes vs zooms. I have, however, in the last few years paid close attention to aspects of photographers workflow, as I tend to be friendly with them, and I ask lots of questions, it's just my nature, as I'm interested in what they do. The way an individual photog works seem to depend mostly on their level of experience. Many have told me they used primes when they started out, but virtually every one moved to zoom lenses at some point. They use primes for certain situations, and seem to regard primes as specialty lenses. IMO, overusing primes causes one to have to adjust your shooting to accomodate your lens, whereas a zoom allows you to capture the story more efficiently. Primes cause a "tail wagging the dog" scenario oftentimes. Beginners use kit lense, then discover primes, and think they have found the "secret" that everyone else is missing to great images. Primes are great, but this is a scenario that has been playing out for years with photographers, it's a syndrome. And yes these guys become insufferable snobs about it. We have hundreds of videographers new to interchangeable lenses who are going through this now. Eventually, those that stick with this format for any length of time will move to zooms, as there really isn't much choice. Primes cause needless work, and are a major pain when doing event work. I run a 20mm or 30mm and a 50mm, and on rare occasion a 135mm. But I also use two zooms at the same time. I love the looks of primes, can't be beat. Everyone knows this. But as experience takes hold, primes because less important than the ability to get the shot. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described." Last edited by Jeff Harper; August 11th, 2011 at 08:55 PM.

August 11th, 2011, 05:57 PM	#12
John Wiley Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Byron Bay, Australia Posts: 1,155	Re: Toasts I agree - there's a few times when primes can shine but uncontrolled situations at weddings are generally not one of them. I only ever use my Pentax 50mm f/1.7 when it's too dark and I have no other choice, because it is just not flexible enough. Maybe if I had a 30mm or 24mm I would use it more, but, even for something relatively predictable like speeches at a lecturn, the ability to quickly and easily recompose is great. You never know when a 6'5" best man and a 4'9" maid of honour are going to decide to do their speech together and leave you caught out unable to fit them both in the frame.

August 11th, 2011, 08:17 PM	#13
Tim Bakland Major Player Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Beverly, MA Posts: 512	Re: Toasts Unpopular answer, but: 1 camera (almost always). I work alone, but for an occasional assistant -- and that assistant is often only for the ceremony. I am still able to get reactions shots in toasts, though, which is totally doable if you are at the right angle and time everything right. And I always tap into the soundboard for good audio and use an LED for good light, etc. I post this in part just for the sake of promoting the idea that one can have a successful business going it alone (I do most of the time) with careful camera work, editing and all the rest. Not to take away from the other responses here -- not at all! But I do want to give an occasional shout-out to the one man business model. I work in a competitive market, but I see too many companies (at least in my neck of the woods) falling prey to the idea more is always more. __________________ Event Videography, New England www.timothybakland.com

August 11th, 2011, 11:26 PM	#14
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Toasts Hi Tim Nothing wrong with a single person shoot at all..I have been doing it for years without any issues. I do use an assistant however if I'm doing both the groom prep and bride prep, especially if they are miles apart!! My assistant will do one prep and I'll do the other and then she will assist at the ceremony. There is really no reason at all to have an assistant at the reception IMHO, what can you really give the bride that's better??? A dual angle shoot of the first dance?? More often than not you would end up with footage of your assistant. During the bridal entrance here, I use on camera on the MC (who is behind a lectern and therefore stationary) and just let it run and then use the second cam to film the bridal party pairs arriving in the room. In fact apart from the ceremony, bridal entry and speeches I only need one camera to adequately cover the event. Chris

August 12th, 2011, 12:24 AM	#15
John Knight Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 588	Re: Toasts I'm with Chris and Tim. Single (real) video camera for speeches. Slow pans between speaker and head table. Crash zoom to wide on applause. Edit out the crash zooms. After surveying a few couples, I've found most say the didn't even rewatch the speeches as the were 'funny at the time' but boring as hell afterwards. Why bust my balls making it epic. That being said - I had this AWESOME genuine couple once... bride was a total fox and the whole day was quite emotional. I used a second unmanned camera as a closeup for reactions and it added a whole new dimension to the speeches. Really really worthwhile. But most my clients are total munters so they wouldn't appreciate the extra effort and are probably yawning or knocking back the booze - which looks bad on cutaways. For the right couple though - it's worth it.