Seasonal prices?

Chris Harding · May 18th, 2011, 07:05 AM

I think you have to decide whether you are a tough no-nonsense business person and stick to your guns or alternatively gain a bit of a reputation as being a nice guy....I like the nice guy approach as it often gets lots of referals from brides.

The important thing to do is offer a discount as mentioned but make it a personal deal between yourself and the bride. The way I look at things is can I actually do it for $XXX dollars and still make a fair profit...it's no use working your butt off for 12 hours when it would be, economically, better to have the day off. The bottom line is probably that in the slack season, "half a loaf is better than none" BUT make sure that in peak season all the other brides don't expect the same deal.

Our June/July period is wild, wet and cold and I would be quite happy to negotiate with weddings in this period rather than sit stubbornly on the sideline and do nothing and also make nothing. I have a photog friend who "refuses to even get out of his chair" unless it's a decent fee so it's really up to the individual.

Jeff, I have also done a similar "deed" for a little girl who was planning a wedding on a $2000 limit (yes I didn't leave out any zeros either!!) I did it at a reduced rate and shot some stills for her too as she couldn't afford a photographer....nicest wedding ever AND so many referrals from that PLUS I felt good!!

Chris

Roger Van Duyn · May 18th, 2011, 07:22 AM

There are a lot of people in my area who have severe limitations with what they can afford to spend. Usually, the first step I take in that situation is to tactfully inquire about their budget, and then offer what suggestions I can to help with the overall budgeting of the event, not just my fee.

However, it's only what I charge and what I offer for the price that's under my control. Usually, I can come up with something that stays within their budget and is still reasonably profitable for me. Sometimes they adjust the overall budget of the event and shift more to my services and less to flowers and fluff.

It's all about communication. And genuine concern for the needs and means of the client. Finally, I think I'd lose less sleep over charging too little than I would over charging too much. And most people seem to have an instinct for detecting a genuine desire to help them out. Like Chris says, being a nice guy goes a long way.

Jeff Harper · May 18th, 2011, 07:36 AM

Roger and Chris, amen. I actually talk to the bride about the wedding, not just my service. As you guys mention, I want to assist a bride in achieving her goals, not blindly trying to shove a video package at her.

There are plenty of brides, most of them, in fact, that pay full regular price. I don't give my services away regularly; if I did I couldnt' pay the mortgage.

Higher end videographers, of which I am not, have a clientele that do not need or care as much about discounts.

I know guys here that get $3-5k per wedding on a regular basis. I'm not one of those guys. They might offer a deal here or there, but they don't normally flex much.

I understand they are selling a much more labor intensive product that I do. They may spend weeks on an edit so they cannot offer huge discounts on those video packages.

Roger Van Duyn · May 19th, 2011, 05:42 AM

Hey Jeff,

I'm with you when it comes to those labor intensive packages. From an artistic standpoint, I lean toward simplicity and minimalism. From a practical standpoint, unnecessary work tends to reduce profitability. Pricing is a big factor in today's economy around here. To be able to offer an attractive price and still make a decent living, you have to work efficiently. You just can't waste time.

Even potential high end clients are concerned now, and I'm not talking primarily about wedding clients, but clients in general. Some of these people have confided to me how careful they've become spending money under their control, because they have families, and employee's families, that would be harmed if they waste money. A lot of people are "sweating bullets." It takes some real creative thinking to overcome today's obstacles. To paraphrase " adversity is the mother of creative thinking."

Honestly, one guy I spoke to had to close up shops at one of the companies he owns. He was really, really pained about what happened to his former employees. He's sort-of living a somewhat comfortable "retirement", but bothered.

Chris Harding · May 19th, 2011, 08:12 AM

Hi Guys

That's business thinking rather than creative thinking which is the real way to make a profit unless your client has 4 Ferrari's in his hilltop mansion!!
I had a local company here who said it was totally impossible to edit a wedding in 8 -10 hours !! His added comment was "sometimes I might spend two days just perfecting a minute's worth of footage"

From a purely business POV I wonder if he actually makes a profit.... I know he claimed that he can take as much as 6 months to deliver to the bride and spend easily 60 hours or more on just the edit. For a practical business model, you would have to charge a small fortune to make that sort of work even viable!!

Dunno how you cost but I simply work my total time in hours to get a realistic cost at a minimum of $75 an hour.... take off travel, consultations and the actual day and to be efficient, you need to produce your finished product once you have shot it, in the time that's left...if you take longer you need to improve efficiency ... my edit time comes in around 8 - 10 hours .. if I need to take 40 hours to edit then I must either work for peanuts or increase my prices which reduces my sales and income!!

I would rather do a simple, efficient wedding for $1500 and know I have made a profit than create a masterpiece for $4000 which in the end makes me a loss!!

Chris

Christian Brown · May 19th, 2011, 11:16 AM

Well put, Chris.

Chris Bryan · May 22nd, 2011, 07:22 PM

Wow,

Editing a wedding in 8-10 hours sounds crazy to me. I usually have about 3-4 hours of footage to go through, so to watch it all once I'm already at half of what your full edit time is. I spend a full week on each wedding edit.

Chris Harding · May 23rd, 2011, 01:45 AM

Hi Chris

Each to their own method!! If I took a week to edit (say 40 hours???) then my edit cost alone would be $4000 ..then plus 12 hours for the consultations and actual wedding means I'm already over the $5000 mark. No bride here would pay $5000 for a wedding DVD set!!! I can allocate myself around 20 hours tops for the whole job otherwise I price myself out of the market.

I still cannot fathom out what you guys actually do for 40 hours???? (I don't shoot 4 hours...probably 2 or often less depending on the ceremony and speech lengths) I could maybe understand a longer edit if you were trying to sync 4 cameras on every aspect of the shoot...I use two cam for ceremony/speeches and then one cam for the rest.

Chris

Andrew Brown · May 23rd, 2011, 03:14 AM

Chris, I think you may have answered your own question.
Take a bit longer, produce something with a real wow factor and charge accordingly.

"Build it and they will come"

Chris Harding · May 23rd, 2011, 07:23 AM

Hi Andrew

Not really!! I'd still like to know what takes 40 hours or more??? I shoot documentary style weddings and I really don't want to spend a week modifying footage and end up with a cinematic style product that bride's won't pay for cos it's out of their budget.

I have great admiration for you guys that produce cinematic masterpieces but it's neither my market nor my style of shooting a wedding.

Chris

Jeff Harper · May 23rd, 2011, 07:41 AM

Chris, I have friends that spend a good 40+ on edits, and they do charge around $3K and up, it kind of depends on the package.

Documentary style is much less demanding, but even then it can take a while if you add highlight clips.

Also, some people are just slower at edting, don't have system they follow and it takes them longer than it has to.

There are training DVDs out that show how to create great wedding films relatively fast by having your own template which you follow.

Chris Harding · May 23rd, 2011, 08:25 AM

Hi Jeff

I was actually going to edit my post to explain a bit better.

Guys like Andrew are probably considered artists and create masterpieces which have to take a lot of effort, concentration and painstaking care... I'm not an artist I'm a story teller and it takes me 8 - 10 hours to put my story together. Do I want to be an artist and create masterpieces...not really!!! I'd rather be a story teller!!

I still, of course, admire their efforts and marvel at their creativeness but to put in all that effort is not my style..neither is sitting a week on my butt editing. I'm sure creative cinematic productions will earn more money but I'm happy shooting documentaries with happy brides and a bank balance that I cannot even spend anyway so why do I need to charge more ???

I think we both have a place in the wedding industry ..I know I do as I'm already full in March 2012!! Why change when things are running smoothly and brides are happy and you have some free time for yourself??

Regardless of my admiration for the cinematic videographers of the world and their great work..I'll stick with what I enjoy doing and that's a story telling documentary

Chris

May 18th, 2011, 07:05 AM	#16
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Seasonal prices? I think you have to decide whether you are a tough no-nonsense business person and stick to your guns or alternatively gain a bit of a reputation as being a nice guy....I like the nice guy approach as it often gets lots of referals from brides. The important thing to do is offer a discount as mentioned but make it a personal deal between yourself and the bride. The way I look at things is can I actually do it for $XXX dollars and still make a fair profit...it's no use working your butt off for 12 hours when it would be, economically, better to have the day off. The bottom line is probably that in the slack season, "half a loaf is better than none" BUT make sure that in peak season all the other brides don't expect the same deal. Our June/July period is wild, wet and cold and I would be quite happy to negotiate with weddings in this period rather than sit stubbornly on the sideline and do nothing and also make nothing. I have a photog friend who "refuses to even get out of his chair" unless it's a decent fee so it's really up to the individual. Jeff, I have also done a similar "deed" for a little girl who was planning a wedding on a $2000 limit (yes I didn't leave out any zeros either!!) I did it at a reduced rate and shot some stills for her too as she couldn't afford a photographer....nicest wedding ever AND so many referrals from that PLUS I felt good!! Chris

May 18th, 2011, 07:22 AM	#17
Roger Van Duyn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Lakeland Florida Posts: 693	Re: Seasonal prices? There are a lot of people in my area who have severe limitations with what they can afford to spend. Usually, the first step I take in that situation is to tactfully inquire about their budget, and then offer what suggestions I can to help with the overall budgeting of the event, not just my fee. However, it's only what I charge and what I offer for the price that's under my control. Usually, I can come up with something that stays within their budget and is still reasonably profitable for me. Sometimes they adjust the overall budget of the event and shift more to my services and less to flowers and fluff. It's all about communication. And genuine concern for the needs and means of the client. Finally, I think I'd lose less sleep over charging too little than I would over charging too much. And most people seem to have an instinct for detecting a genuine desire to help them out. Like Chris says, being a nice guy goes a long way. __________________ Roger My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAp...2AHr_pHFID5LDA

May 18th, 2011, 07:36 AM	#18
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Seasonal prices? Roger and Chris, amen. I actually talk to the bride about the wedding, not just my service. As you guys mention, I want to assist a bride in achieving her goals, not blindly trying to shove a video package at her. There are plenty of brides, most of them, in fact, that pay full regular price. I don't give my services away regularly; if I did I couldnt' pay the mortgage. Higher end videographers, of which I am not, have a clientele that do not need or care as much about discounts. I know guys here that get $3-5k per wedding on a regular basis. I'm not one of those guys. They might offer a deal here or there, but they don't normally flex much. I understand they are selling a much more labor intensive product that I do. They may spend weeks on an edit so they cannot offer huge discounts on those video packages. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

May 19th, 2011, 05:42 AM	#19
Roger Van Duyn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Lakeland Florida Posts: 693	Re: Seasonal prices? Hey Jeff, I'm with you when it comes to those labor intensive packages. From an artistic standpoint, I lean toward simplicity and minimalism. From a practical standpoint, unnecessary work tends to reduce profitability. Pricing is a big factor in today's economy around here. To be able to offer an attractive price and still make a decent living, you have to work efficiently. You just can't waste time. Even potential high end clients are concerned now, and I'm not talking primarily about wedding clients, but clients in general. Some of these people have confided to me how careful they've become spending money under their control, because they have families, and employee's families, that would be harmed if they waste money. A lot of people are "sweating bullets." It takes some real creative thinking to overcome today's obstacles. To paraphrase " adversity is the mother of creative thinking." Honestly, one guy I spoke to had to close up shops at one of the companies he owns. He was really, really pained about what happened to his former employees. He's sort-of living a somewhat comfortable "retirement", but bothered. __________________ Roger My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAp...2AHr_pHFID5LDA

May 19th, 2011, 08:12 AM	#20
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Seasonal prices? Hi Guys That's business thinking rather than creative thinking which is the real way to make a profit unless your client has 4 Ferrari's in his hilltop mansion!! I had a local company here who said it was totally impossible to edit a wedding in 8 -10 hours !! His added comment was "sometimes I might spend two days just perfecting a minute's worth of footage" From a purely business POV I wonder if he actually makes a profit.... I know he claimed that he can take as much as 6 months to deliver to the bride and spend easily 60 hours or more on just the edit. For a practical business model, you would have to charge a small fortune to make that sort of work even viable!! Dunno how you cost but I simply work my total time in hours to get a realistic cost at a minimum of $75 an hour.... take off travel, consultations and the actual day and to be efficient, you need to produce your finished product once you have shot it, in the time that's left...if you take longer you need to improve efficiency ... my edit time comes in around 8 - 10 hours .. if I need to take 40 hours to edit then I must either work for peanuts or increase my prices which reduces my sales and income!! I would rather do a simple, efficient wedding for $1500 and know I have made a profit than create a masterpiece for $4000 which in the end makes me a loss!! Chris

May 19th, 2011, 11:16 AM	#21
Christian Brown Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 194	Re: Seasonal prices? Well put, Chris. __________________ http://artslaureate.com/, http://facebook.com/ArtsLaureate http://www.christianamonson.com/

May 22nd, 2011, 07:22 PM	#22
Chris Bryan Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: New York, NY Posts: 78	Re: Seasonal prices? Wow, Editing a wedding in 8-10 hours sounds crazy to me. I usually have about 3-4 hours of footage to go through, so to watch it all once I'm already at half of what your full edit time is. I spend a full week on each wedding edit.

May 23rd, 2011, 01:45 AM	#23
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Seasonal prices? Hi Chris Each to their own method!! If I took a week to edit (say 40 hours???) then my edit cost alone would be $4000 ..then plus 12 hours for the consultations and actual wedding means I'm already over the $5000 mark. No bride here would pay $5000 for a wedding DVD set!!! I can allocate myself around 20 hours tops for the whole job otherwise I price myself out of the market. I still cannot fathom out what you guys actually do for 40 hours???? (I don't shoot 4 hours...probably 2 or often less depending on the ceremony and speech lengths) I could maybe understand a longer edit if you were trying to sync 4 cameras on every aspect of the shoot...I use two cam for ceremony/speeches and then one cam for the rest. Chris

May 23rd, 2011, 03:14 AM	#24
Andrew Brown Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: UK Posts: 33	Re: Seasonal prices? Chris, I think you may have answered your own question. Take a bit longer, produce something with a real wow factor and charge accordingly. "Build it and they will come" __________________ www.memoriesonfilm.co.uk

May 23rd, 2011, 07:23 AM	#25
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Seasonal prices? Hi Andrew Not really!! I'd still like to know what takes 40 hours or more??? I shoot documentary style weddings and I really don't want to spend a week modifying footage and end up with a cinematic style product that bride's won't pay for cos it's out of their budget. I have great admiration for you guys that produce cinematic masterpieces but it's neither my market nor my style of shooting a wedding. Chris

May 23rd, 2011, 07:41 AM	#26
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Seasonal prices? Chris, I have friends that spend a good 40+ on edits, and they do charge around $3K and up, it kind of depends on the package. Documentary style is much less demanding, but even then it can take a while if you add highlight clips. Also, some people are just slower at edting, don't have system they follow and it takes them longer than it has to. There are training DVDs out that show how to create great wedding films relatively fast by having your own template which you follow. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

May 23rd, 2011, 08:25 AM	#27
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Seasonal prices? Hi Jeff I was actually going to edit my post to explain a bit better. Guys like Andrew are probably considered artists and create masterpieces which have to take a lot of effort, concentration and painstaking care... I'm not an artist I'm a story teller and it takes me 8 - 10 hours to put my story together. Do I want to be an artist and create masterpieces...not really!!! I'd rather be a story teller!! I still, of course, admire their efforts and marvel at their creativeness but to put in all that effort is not my style..neither is sitting a week on my butt editing. I'm sure creative cinematic productions will earn more money but I'm happy shooting documentaries with happy brides and a bank balance that I cannot even spend anyway so why do I need to charge more ??? I think we both have a place in the wedding industry ..I know I do as I'm already full in March 2012!! Why change when things are running smoothly and brides are happy and you have some free time for yourself?? Regardless of my admiration for the cinematic videographers of the world and their great work..I'll stick with what I enjoy doing and that's a story telling documentary Chris