Wedding Audio sound via Zoom H4n and camera sync? at DVinfo.net

Steve Montoto · May 15th, 2011, 02:47 PM

Just a quick question for those of you who use the Zoom H4n. There is a stamina mode for recording, but it only allows 44khz 16bit. Are any of you having trouble with drift or syncing with your cameras audio at 48khz? What mode are you using?

Thanks!

Danny O'Neill · May 18th, 2011, 04:34 AM

Never had an issue with drift on the zoom in any mode. Its such a great device.

Steve Montoto · May 18th, 2011, 07:50 PM

I just picked one up Danny. It seems very nice, just wanted to hear from owners, to make sure if there were any particular settings that I should or shouldn't use that might give problems with DSLR video syncing.

Which setting are you using Stamina mode?

Thanks.

Kelly Langerak · May 18th, 2011, 08:21 PM

It does matter. Just happened to me last week. The H1N was set at 44.1 and the Canon 7D is 48htz. They slipped out of sync by about 5-10 frames. The way to fix it is to take the 44.1htz track and export it as a quicktime movie, not a wave file, and look under audio and set it to 48htz if it isn't already. Save, bring back into your time line and your good to go.

Not sure why you don't have that option in Stamina mode. Have you updated the H4N recently?

Steve Montoto · May 19th, 2011, 06:48 AM

I guess I could take the 44.1 file and resample in sound forge to 48k and reexport to wave, since stamina mode only records 44.1k.

Or if I don't want to fiddle with it I guess I could just loose the extra battery life of stamina mode and record in 48k mode 16bit wave correct?

Peter Riding · May 19th, 2011, 12:01 PM

Steve, why bother with Stamina mode anyway?

There is a received wisdom that the batteries don't last long but I tested my H4n and two H1's to find out.

I used Ansmann 2850 rechargeables. I reconditioned them first in a Maha C9000 unit. That is a good working practice for all AA rechargeables:
Maha C9000 Wizard One Intelligent Charger + Analyser from mahaenergy.co.uk

In all cases I recorded the sound from an unattended TV. I tried onboard mics, lavs, plugin power, and a Rode NTG2 shotgun mic via XLR.

I all cases the batteries lasted several hours. So long in fact that I didn't bother to keep the results as i know I would have swapped out the batteries on a live shoot anyway.

I suggest you run the tests to satisfy yourself - you may be pleasantly surprised!

Pete

Steve Montoto · May 19th, 2011, 12:29 PM

Your right Peter, the only reason I even considered the stamina mode, is because I don't want to have something else to worry about on a wedding day, like changing batteries. I want to put fresh batteries in before the event and that's it. Change them before the next one etc. I don't really foresee me needing more than 6 hours and I believe the H4n says 7hrs in regular mode.

Thanks.

Danny O'Neill · May 20th, 2011, 02:20 PM

I've never given the stamina mode a go. Always ran it on 48khz as that is what the cameras run in but also to get the most latitude I could. We often place one of our h4n on a table for the speakers or into a soundboard but set the volume low so it doesn't blow out. So great is its latitude that in testing the auto level (which we decided not to use) that when we tapped the mic and it put the volume down to 0.1 the audio was so quiet the sound had no waveform on the timeline. But pump up the gain in Vegas and it was there, crystal clear. simply amazing. A note on the auto, its not like your camera auto which puts the volume up and down. Once it puts the volume down, it stays down.

We just go armed with a bag of fresh rechargeable batteries and change after each part of the day. Ours is set to non-stamina mode, 48/96 and get around 1.5 hours from a fresh set of rechargeables and even then I'm sure it could have gone on longer but just to be safe. Alkaline batts will last longer. How long you get totally depends on the mode your in. The higher the bitrate the less time you get. Also MP3 vs WAV has an effect but I forget which gives better battery life. But back to the latitude thing WAV will give you room to play and fix mistakes, mp3 will limit you somewhat.

It makes sense that a camera at 48 and a zoom at 44 will cause drift.

Best thing is to make up your own mind. Just that one person says one thing and someone else in another editor or camera get another response. Setup your camera and H4N and record yourself watching TV. Clap your hands every now and then. Then, sync it up and see if the random clapping drifts at all.

Heres a top TOP H4N tip. Most people buy it with a whooping great big memory card. But the bigger the card, the longer it takes for the H4N to boot up. We change cards between each key part of the day (ceremony, speeches, evening). and use 4GB cards for each. The zoom boots up in a few seconds but with a 32GB card in your waiting quite a long time. Buy small and buy many. Saves the nerves knowing that the entire day isnt on a single card which can fail (we had a scare once, but was a false alarm)

Steve Montoto · May 20th, 2011, 02:31 PM

Thanks for the helpful info Danny, I only considered Stamina , because I hate changing/remembering to change batteries on the day. Ouch 1.5 hours is really a short time for me. I think I will do some tests and see what we get, we normally use some cheap alkaline batteries from the local store. I have considered the Sanyo Eneloop batteries, if anyone has experience with these it would be helpful.

Thanks again,

Steve

Shaun Conner · May 21st, 2011, 04:06 PM

Steve. How have you been? I wouldn't bother with Stamina Mode. I normally use a set of batteries for the ceremony and switch for the Reception. I've never had an issue with battery power on the zoom so you should be ok.

James Strange · May 21st, 2011, 05:02 PM

Battery life if the main reason i use the tascam dr100 over the zoom h4n,

I have both, and use both, but the tascam is the all day workhorse, mainly due to the battery.

Warren Kawamoto · May 21st, 2011, 08:51 PM

I also record non-stamina at 48kHz. I use Energizer rechargeables, and I could have sworn I got close to 5 hours of record time on a single set of batteries. I'll double check again.

Steve Montoto · May 22nd, 2011, 10:12 AM

Shaun,

Long time no talk! ;-). Been doing good, we need to meet up and each lunch sometime, give me a call when you get a chance. I have been doing the conversion to all dslr and working out a few kinks, but seems to be smoother and getting alot of help here. I appreciate all of the helpful comments and suggestions.

Warren,

I just purchased some of the rechargable AA's 2700mah kind and we will see how that does. Does anyone know approx mah on standard alkaline batteries? I did a test on my H4n and got about 4 hours recording on a standard set of alkaline supers from Walgreens.

Chris Bryan · May 22nd, 2011, 07:14 PM

Hey guys,

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I use the H4N and I can never get my audio to synch without drifting. I'm recording on the HMC150 and the GH1 at 720 60p. Then I'm conforming the video to 23.98 fps. The audio from the H4N synchs perfectly if I leave the footage as 60fps, but it drifts when I synch it the 23.98 fps. Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks!

Warren Kawamoto · May 22nd, 2011, 07:34 PM

I just did some new battery endurance tests with the Energizer rechargeable AA rated at 2300mAh, these were manufactured in 2010 and lasted longer than my 2008 2500mAh Energizers! In both tests, stamina is OFF.

A. Recorded at 16 bit, 48kHz, stereo mode, recorded 7 hours, 2 minutes before low batt warning came on!
B. Recorded at 16 bit, 48kHz with 48v phantom power to Rode NTG-3 on, 5 hours 44 minutes before low batt warning!

Got these batteries from Sam's Club, you can also get them at Walmart.

May 15th, 2011, 02:47 PM	#1
Steve Montoto Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 302	Wedding Audio sound via Zoom H4n and camera sync? Just a quick question for those of you who use the Zoom H4n. There is a stamina mode for recording, but it only allows 44khz 16bit. Are any of you having trouble with drift or syncing with your cameras audio at 48khz? What mode are you using? Thanks!

May 18th, 2011, 04:34 AM	#2
Danny O'Neill Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Northampton, UK Posts: 915	Re: Wedding Audio sound via Zoom H4n and camera sync? Never had an issue with drift on the zoom in any mode. Its such a great device. __________________ mintyslippers.com

May 18th, 2011, 07:50 PM	#3
Steve Montoto Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 302	Re: Wedding Audio sound via Zoom H4n and camera sync? I just picked one up Danny. It seems very nice, just wanted to hear from owners, to make sure if there were any particular settings that I should or shouldn't use that might give problems with DSLR video syncing. Which setting are you using Stamina mode? Thanks.

May 18th, 2011, 08:21 PM	#4
Kelly Langerak Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Bay Area Posts: 522	Re: Wedding Audio sound via Zoom H4n and camera sync? It does matter. Just happened to me last week. The H1N was set at 44.1 and the Canon 7D is 48htz. They slipped out of sync by about 5-10 frames. The way to fix it is to take the 44.1htz track and export it as a quicktime movie, not a wave file, and look under audio and set it to 48htz if it isn't already. Save, bring back into your time line and your good to go. Not sure why you don't have that option in Stamina mode. Have you updated the H4N recently?

May 19th, 2011, 06:48 AM	#5
Steve Montoto Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 302	Re: Wedding Audio sound via Zoom H4n and camera sync? I guess I could take the 44.1 file and resample in sound forge to 48k and reexport to wave, since stamina mode only records 44.1k. Or if I don't want to fiddle with it I guess I could just loose the extra battery life of stamina mode and record in 48k mode 16bit wave correct?

May 19th, 2011, 12:01 PM	#6
Peter Riding Major Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Reading Berkshire UK Posts: 872	Re: Wedding Audio sound via Zoom H4n and camera sync? Steve, why bother with Stamina mode anyway? There is a received wisdom that the batteries don't last long but I tested my H4n and two H1's to find out. I used Ansmann 2850 rechargeables. I reconditioned them first in a Maha C9000 unit. That is a good working practice for all AA rechargeables: Maha C9000 Wizard One Intelligent Charger + Analyser from mahaenergy.co.uk In all cases I recorded the sound from an unattended TV. I tried onboard mics, lavs, plugin power, and a Rode NTG2 shotgun mic via XLR. I all cases the batteries lasted several hours. So long in fact that I didn't bother to keep the results as i know I would have swapped out the batteries on a live shoot anyway. I suggest you run the tests to satisfy yourself - you may be pleasantly surprised! Pete

May 19th, 2011, 12:29 PM	#7
Steve Montoto Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 302	Re: Wedding Audio sound via Zoom H4n and camera sync? Your right Peter, the only reason I even considered the stamina mode, is because I don't want to have something else to worry about on a wedding day, like changing batteries. I want to put fresh batteries in before the event and that's it. Change them before the next one etc. I don't really foresee me needing more than 6 hours and I believe the H4n says 7hrs in regular mode. Thanks.

May 20th, 2011, 02:20 PM	#8
Danny O'Neill Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Northampton, UK Posts: 915	Re: Wedding Audio sound via Zoom H4n and camera sync? I've never given the stamina mode a go. Always ran it on 48khz as that is what the cameras run in but also to get the most latitude I could. We often place one of our h4n on a table for the speakers or into a soundboard but set the volume low so it doesn't blow out. So great is its latitude that in testing the auto level (which we decided not to use) that when we tapped the mic and it put the volume down to 0.1 the audio was so quiet the sound had no waveform on the timeline. But pump up the gain in Vegas and it was there, crystal clear. simply amazing. A note on the auto, its not like your camera auto which puts the volume up and down. Once it puts the volume down, it stays down. We just go armed with a bag of fresh rechargeable batteries and change after each part of the day. Ours is set to non-stamina mode, 48/96 and get around 1.5 hours from a fresh set of rechargeables and even then I'm sure it could have gone on longer but just to be safe. Alkaline batts will last longer. How long you get totally depends on the mode your in. The higher the bitrate the less time you get. Also MP3 vs WAV has an effect but I forget which gives better battery life. But back to the latitude thing WAV will give you room to play and fix mistakes, mp3 will limit you somewhat. It makes sense that a camera at 48 and a zoom at 44 will cause drift. Best thing is to make up your own mind. Just that one person says one thing and someone else in another editor or camera get another response. Setup your camera and H4N and record yourself watching TV. Clap your hands every now and then. Then, sync it up and see if the random clapping drifts at all. Heres a top TOP H4N tip. Most people buy it with a whooping great big memory card. But the bigger the card, the longer it takes for the H4N to boot up. We change cards between each key part of the day (ceremony, speeches, evening). and use 4GB cards for each. The zoom boots up in a few seconds but with a 32GB card in your waiting quite a long time. Buy small and buy many. Saves the nerves knowing that the entire day isnt on a single card which can fail (we had a scare once, but was a false alarm) __________________ mintyslippers.com

May 20th, 2011, 02:31 PM	#9
Steve Montoto Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 302	Re: Wedding Audio sound via Zoom H4n and camera sync? Thanks for the helpful info Danny, I only considered Stamina , because I hate changing/remembering to change batteries on the day. Ouch 1.5 hours is really a short time for me. I think I will do some tests and see what we get, we normally use some cheap alkaline batteries from the local store. I have considered the Sanyo Eneloop batteries, if anyone has experience with these it would be helpful. Thanks again, Steve

May 21st, 2011, 04:06 PM	#10
Shaun Conner Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 196	Re: Wedding Audio sound via Zoom H4n and camera sync? Steve. How have you been? I wouldn't bother with Stamina Mode. I normally use a set of batteries for the ceremony and switch for the Reception. I've never had an issue with battery power on the zoom so you should be ok.

May 21st, 2011, 05:02 PM	#11
James Strange Major Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK Posts: 309	Re: Wedding Audio sound via Zoom H4n and camera sync? Battery life if the main reason i use the tascam dr100 over the zoom h4n, I have both, and use both, but the tascam is the all day workhorse, mainly due to the battery.

May 21st, 2011, 08:51 PM	#12
Warren Kawamoto Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,435	Re: Wedding Audio sound via Zoom H4n and camera sync? I also record non-stamina at 48kHz. I use Energizer rechargeables, and I could have sworn I got close to 5 hours of record time on a single set of batteries. I'll double check again.

May 22nd, 2011, 10:12 AM	#13
Steve Montoto Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 302	Re: Wedding Audio sound via Zoom H4n and camera sync? Shaun, Long time no talk! ;-). Been doing good, we need to meet up and each lunch sometime, give me a call when you get a chance. I have been doing the conversion to all dslr and working out a few kinks, but seems to be smoother and getting alot of help here. I appreciate all of the helpful comments and suggestions. Warren, I just purchased some of the rechargable AA's 2700mah kind and we will see how that does. Does anyone know approx mah on standard alkaline batteries? I did a test on my H4n and got about 4 hours recording on a standard set of alkaline supers from Walgreens.

May 22nd, 2011, 07:14 PM	#14
Chris Bryan Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: New York, NY Posts: 78	Re: Wedding Audio sound via Zoom H4n and camera sync? Hey guys, I don't want to hijack this thread, but I use the H4N and I can never get my audio to synch without drifting. I'm recording on the HMC150 and the GH1 at 720 60p. Then I'm conforming the video to 23.98 fps. The audio from the H4N synchs perfectly if I leave the footage as 60fps, but it drifts when I synch it the 23.98 fps. Am I doing something wrong? Thanks!

May 22nd, 2011, 07:34 PM	#15
Warren Kawamoto Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,435	Re: Wedding Audio sound via Zoom H4n and camera sync? I just did some new battery endurance tests with the Energizer rechargeable AA rated at 2300mAh, these were manufactured in 2010 and lasted longer than my 2008 2500mAh Energizers! In both tests, stamina is OFF. A. Recorded at 16 bit, 48kHz, stereo mode, recorded 7 hours, 2 minutes before low batt warning came on! B. Recorded at 16 bit, 48kHz with 48v phantom power to Rode NTG-3 on, 5 hours 44 minutes before low batt warning! Got these batteries from Sam's Club, you can also get them at Walmart.