lavalier microphone to a female officiant

Peter Riding · July 23rd, 2014, 03:02 AM

in the UK often registrar's are not allocated their weddings until the morning of the wedding itself and they have 5 or 6 to do in a day sometimes so phoning round trying to work out who the registrar will be before the wedding is always going to be a bit of a nightmare

In addition a certain proportion regard you as the enemy. It can be a better strategy to spring stuff on them at the last moment when there is no time for them to be obstructive.

wish I hadn't sold my sennheiser transmitter and lav mic

You can get decent almost new G3 sets on Ebay for about £120 less than the new retail price. Check the seller obviously. Get the G3 rather than earlier ones as its diversity antenna setup is more capable of good performance when the units are orientated in less than perfect alignments. And get the 606-614 frequency band.

I'd buy a smaller unit than the H1 for clipping on. Recently I got an Olympus VN-733PC following Noa's very insistent advice that such units can be very useful :- )

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It was on an Amazon lightning deal at £40. There are loads of similar units. You could gaffer tape it on - use genuine photographers gaffer tape as it doesn't leave a residue. These velcro straps are useful for attaching recorders, lavs etc to venue mic stalks etc quickly:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Pete

David Payne · July 23rd, 2014, 07:30 AM

Spot on about them seeing us as the enemy Peter!

I might give that audio recorder a try. If nothing else it can replace just one of my H1's for now, the one that I put in the grooms pocket for the ceremony is often a bit big if he has a fitted suit on. I'll research now but I assume it can take a micro SD card and crucially, it's reliable? Ive noticed it only records mp3 and not wav so not sure it could replace my H1's. If you still have the link to the thread where you were talked into it please do let me know I'd love to read..

I think the one I sold was a G2 and I sold it as I wasn't happy with the wireless performance even when stood 20ft away if the talent turned to the side or faced away from me sometimes it would cut out which even though I could monitor the audio over the H1's, wasn't worth the trade off.

I'll try the small Olympus first and if I;m not keen I may buy another sennheiser. My existing receiver is on the 830-866mhz band, would you say that's not a great one to be on? I do find on the occasions I can get access to the frequency of a mic it's 50/50 as to whether my receiver is compatible. Why do you recommend the 606-614 particularly?

Peter Riding · July 23rd, 2014, 09:09 AM

David I simply bought that recorder because it was on a special offer with Amazon that day at £40 rather than its usual volatile price of £48 - £58. I wasn't expecting much from it, just for it to do a decent job in situations where my other kit could not be used such as strapping it to a venue's wireless handheld mic when that is being handed around to numerous different speakers in the reception.

It does a decent enough job. It has no manual levels but it does OK. Its MP3 only but I can live with that - 48-16 WAV only really comes into its own if you need to do heavy duty editing anyway. It has an onboard memory but I use a separate 2gb micro SD card as I always prefer cards in case anything goes wrong.

There are a lot of alternatives from Olympus Philips Yamaha etc and the one that many members have used is the discontinued Yamaha C24. If you search on that you should find lots of opinions. Its nice if you can get one with a 1/4"x20 bush in the back for extra flexibility but they can be hard to find.

Yes with the G2 and earlier you were supposed to always have the transmitter and receiver both upright for reliable reception but with the G3 diversity antenna thats not an issue any more over the short uninterrupted distances usually found at weddings.

606-614 (606 to 648 actually but the basic Senny units are 606-614) is the authorised licensable band available post the 2012 regulations. Also known as Channel 38. There is one other band in the 800's maybe in the band of your current G2 and that does not require licensing, but it is narrow and likely to be very busy, and possibly suffer some interference. A G3 transmitter will work with a G2 receiver but with some functionality missing. A G3 transmitter on its own usually goes for a high price on Ebay so I'd be tempted to get an entire G3 kit.

As we know a wireless kit is not an essential for weddings most of the time but it is nice to have even just one to go from the groom directly into one channel of the main cam.

Pete

David Payne · July 23rd, 2014, 09:19 AM

Thanks for the advice Pete, I really appreciate it. I think I'm going to go for a tiny mp3 recorder (one of the ones you suggested) for those desperation moments you mention. I've been inspired by your photo of it clipped on the registrars folder I think thats a great idea. Do you recommend any particular lav to be used for that sort of situation? I suppose omnidirectional as you wont be able to easily angle the lav directly at the registrars mouth with gaffer tape or velcro..

Peter Riding · July 23rd, 2014, 10:45 AM

You absolutely must use an omnidirectional lav in that scenario. All your lavs are probably omni anyway. A narrower pickup pattern would kill you just as it would attached to a persons tie when they turn their head sideways. The clip that comes with most lavs should be enough but you could add extra security with a bit of heavy duty black Blutak:

Black Tack 19mm x 1m, high strength adhesive putty for: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

I often use that for attaching lavs to lecterns etc.

Pete

David Payne · July 23rd, 2014, 03:22 PM

the mics I use are ATR3350's which have a battery pack inline so that probably wont be too good for this scenario. The other one I have for better quality sound (I use it on the groom for ceremony) is the Rode Lavalier which has no battery pack but at £150 its quite expensive to use with an mp3 recorder.. any recommendations on a decent low cost mic to use with the Olympus in this situation?

David Payne · July 24th, 2014, 03:24 PM

I tried clipping onto the registrars jacket up high on the next line today and hid the recorder under her hair.. it worked really well!

One of my mics however did let me down on a best man speech, I assume a connection where I had to cut some hugely excessive cable out of the ATR3350 and re-solder so in short.. I'm still looking for suggestions for affordable lavalier mics that do not need external power supplies and don't have a 200ft cable like the ATR3350!

Don Bloom · July 24th, 2014, 03:55 PM

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/89741-REG/Azden_EX_503_EX_503_Lavalier_Mic.html
I use this with my Tascam DR-05 and it hasn't let me down. Decent sound and for the money, you can buy a bunch of them.

Chris Harding · July 24th, 2014, 06:07 PM

All my lavs are also 503's ..they work well and take a lot of abuse ..So far in 15 years I had to replace just one of them as the cable had a break right near the body of the mic so it wasn't worth the hassle of trying to cut away the body to resolder the cable. I get them from Azden direct for a mere $20.00!

They also make variations of the 503 if you need a 3.5mm screw fitting and also with different plugs.

Chris

Robert Benda · July 24th, 2014, 08:06 PM

We have to be more careful in the U.S. 5 or so years ago they changed the microphone frequencies on us, and everybody had to change over. I held out for a few years, but slowly started getting more interference. Now, a few years later, there are murmurs it will happen again.

Obnoxiously, as a DJ, I have a couple of nice wireless microphones, 2 handheld, one headset, one lavalier. Unfortunately, the receiver isn't portable at all, which means its not really suitable for video work. I suppose it would be great for a service with a bunch of vicars, though.... I'd just setup my usual rig, run all the mics into my mixer, then record the output clean.

For now, pocket recorders remain the best option, though I do have one inexpensive ($180) lavalier microphone setup that I use on the pastor/priest when possible.

Peter Riding · July 25th, 2014, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Payne

the mics I use are ATR3350's which have a battery pack inline so that probably wont be too good for this scenario. The other one I have for better quality sound (I use it on the groom for ceremony) is the Rode Lavalier which has no battery pack but at £150 its quite expensive to use with an mp3 recorder.. any recommendations on a decent low cost mic to use with the Olympus in this situation?

Peter Rush recently recommended these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

A lot of people use lavs from Giant Squid. Very good value, not very pretty, they do the job:

Miniature Microphone Specialists Stereo - Mono - Cardioid - Omnidrectional Giant Squid Audio Lab

Not sure but aren't the Rode lavs wired in such a way that they may not be compatible? I may be thinking of one particular lav, maybe the iphone one.

Pete

David Payne · July 25th, 2014, 02:00 AM

thanks guys I'll read up on those and buy a load of one type. They all look pretty ugly compared to my ATR3350's but that might be because all the pics have the wind screens on!

My Rode Lavalier does work with my H1 no problem Peter.

One concern is having to rely on the Zoom H1's plugin power. I dont know if this will make the H1's any less reliable (reliability has always been an issue for me until I was advised to not use recharables but now I only use alkaline batteries they have been 100% reliable.. so far..) and also how it will affect the battery life as my current mics have their own in line power. On a single AA I can now get 2hrs recording without having to get twitchy (in my tests at home they actually last 3 or 4 hours sometimes) but this will obviously be reduced by using the plugin power.I suppose I could test using the Rode thinking about it.. but I currently use that for ceremonies anyway (as it seems to pick up a wider area which is more handy for capturing the bride as well) and I know it can go 1hr plus with no battery failure, they're usually on full or half when I remove them.

Just had a look through all of those mics, the Pronomic LA-30 seems great value and potentially would have been a MUCH cheaper alternative to my Rode Lavalier. I paid more for the screw on XLR connection for use with my H4N than the mic itself costs with 4 different connectors! However.. to buy 5 of them and because I'll certainly never need the additional connectors unless I decide to sell my Rode, they're a bit pricy. That leaves the 503 which a couple of you guys recommend but I can't find a photo of it even on google images without the wind screen thing. It is removable, right? The silver clip looks a bit ugly but it's a great price. Most important thing for me after sound quality is quality of the cable, I think I'd like quite a thick cable to make sure it doesn't end up breaking inside with my regular winding and unwinding into a neat ball for storage.

Peter Riding · July 25th, 2014, 03:30 AM

David you are quite safe to use rechargeables :- ) I have used nothing but for years. Some equipment has a menu setting for the type of battery e.g. the Zoom H4n.

Just make sure you get a good genuine brand. My favs now are the high capacity Eneloops:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They retain their full charge for ages so you don't have to constantly top up unused cells. I use chargers that can analyse and recondition cells as well. The Maha C9000. I have 4 of those.

Not sure if plugin power used on an H1 would lead to excessive drain as I seldom use anything other than the H1's onboard mics - the pick up pattern being a slightly narrower more appropriate one than a typical omni lav. Its phantom power than can be a hog on some devices. If I'm using a lav its usually with a G3 transmitter, if I'm using an H1 its usually hidden close to the couple.

Pete

David Payne · July 25th, 2014, 03:39 AM

The reliability issue isn't down to the power running out but the H1 locking up. I had maybe 5 lock ups in 3 years and lost the file each time, an absolute nightmare. Since switching to Alkaline on Zoom's recommendation I haven't had a lock up. Expensive, but the only way I'll use them now for critical audio.

Peter Riding · July 25th, 2014, 05:09 AM

Gosh, I have 4 x H1's and have never experienced a "lockup". I seem to recall that if the power runs out whilst recording then that file may be lost. A new file is created every 2gb but since 48/16 WAV files are relatively small 2gb would mean losing an entire recording I guess. Zoom were probably alluding to reliability issues with cheap rechargeables or over-use of rechargeables without reconditioning the cells - they don't last forever.

I also use rechargeables for numerous flashguns, gun battery packs, H4n, shotgun mic, wireless triggers, 3 x G3 radio kits, etc with no issues.

Pete

July 23rd, 2014, 03:02 AM	#31
Peter Riding Major Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Reading Berkshire UK Posts: 872	Re: lavalier microphone to a female officiant in the UK often registrar's are not allocated their weddings until the morning of the wedding itself and they have 5 or 6 to do in a day sometimes so phoning round trying to work out who the registrar will be before the wedding is always going to be a bit of a nightmare In addition a certain proportion regard you as the enemy. It can be a better strategy to spring stuff on them at the last moment when there is no time for them to be obstructive. wish I hadn't sold my sennheiser transmitter and lav mic You can get decent almost new G3 sets on Ebay for about £120 less than the new retail price. Check the seller obviously. Get the G3 rather than earlier ones as its diversity antenna setup is more capable of good performance when the units are orientated in less than perfect alignments. And get the 606-614 frequency band. I'd buy a smaller unit than the H1 for clipping on. Recently I got an Olympus VN-733PC following Noa's very insistent advice that such units can be very useful :- ) http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 It was on an Amazon lightning deal at £40. There are loads of similar units. You could gaffer tape it on - use genuine photographers gaffer tape as it doesn't leave a residue. These velcro straps are useful for attaching recorders, lavs etc to venue mic stalks etc quickly: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Pete

July 23rd, 2014, 07:30 AM	#32
David Payne Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: UK Posts: 32	Re: lavalier microphone to a female officiant Spot on about them seeing us as the enemy Peter! I might give that audio recorder a try. If nothing else it can replace just one of my H1's for now, the one that I put in the grooms pocket for the ceremony is often a bit big if he has a fitted suit on. I'll research now but I assume it can take a micro SD card and crucially, it's reliable? Ive noticed it only records mp3 and not wav so not sure it could replace my H1's. If you still have the link to the thread where you were talked into it please do let me know I'd love to read.. I think the one I sold was a G2 and I sold it as I wasn't happy with the wireless performance even when stood 20ft away if the talent turned to the side or faced away from me sometimes it would cut out which even though I could monitor the audio over the H1's, wasn't worth the trade off. I'll try the small Olympus first and if I;m not keen I may buy another sennheiser. My existing receiver is on the 830-866mhz band, would you say that's not a great one to be on? I do find on the occasions I can get access to the frequency of a mic it's 50/50 as to whether my receiver is compatible. Why do you recommend the 606-614 particularly?

July 23rd, 2014, 09:09 AM	#33
Peter Riding Major Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Reading Berkshire UK Posts: 872	Re: lavalier microphone to a female officiant David I simply bought that recorder because it was on a special offer with Amazon that day at £40 rather than its usual volatile price of £48 - £58. I wasn't expecting much from it, just for it to do a decent job in situations where my other kit could not be used such as strapping it to a venue's wireless handheld mic when that is being handed around to numerous different speakers in the reception. It does a decent enough job. It has no manual levels but it does OK. Its MP3 only but I can live with that - 48-16 WAV only really comes into its own if you need to do heavy duty editing anyway. It has an onboard memory but I use a separate 2gb micro SD card as I always prefer cards in case anything goes wrong. There are a lot of alternatives from Olympus Philips Yamaha etc and the one that many members have used is the discontinued Yamaha C24. If you search on that you should find lots of opinions. Its nice if you can get one with a 1/4"x20 bush in the back for extra flexibility but they can be hard to find. Yes with the G2 and earlier you were supposed to always have the transmitter and receiver both upright for reliable reception but with the G3 diversity antenna thats not an issue any more over the short uninterrupted distances usually found at weddings. 606-614 (606 to 648 actually but the basic Senny units are 606-614) is the authorised licensable band available post the 2012 regulations. Also known as Channel 38. There is one other band in the 800's maybe in the band of your current G2 and that does not require licensing, but it is narrow and likely to be very busy, and possibly suffer some interference. A G3 transmitter will work with a G2 receiver but with some functionality missing. A G3 transmitter on its own usually goes for a high price on Ebay so I'd be tempted to get an entire G3 kit. As we know a wireless kit is not an essential for weddings most of the time but it is nice to have even just one to go from the groom directly into one channel of the main cam. Pete

July 23rd, 2014, 09:19 AM	#34
David Payne Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: UK Posts: 32	Re: lavalier microphone to a female officiant Thanks for the advice Pete, I really appreciate it. I think I'm going to go for a tiny mp3 recorder (one of the ones you suggested) for those desperation moments you mention. I've been inspired by your photo of it clipped on the registrars folder I think thats a great idea. Do you recommend any particular lav to be used for that sort of situation? I suppose omnidirectional as you wont be able to easily angle the lav directly at the registrars mouth with gaffer tape or velcro..

July 23rd, 2014, 10:45 AM	#35
Peter Riding Major Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Reading Berkshire UK Posts: 872	Re: lavalier microphone to a female officiant You absolutely must use an omnidirectional lav in that scenario. All your lavs are probably omni anyway. A narrower pickup pattern would kill you just as it would attached to a persons tie when they turn their head sideways. The clip that comes with most lavs should be enough but you could add extra security with a bit of heavy duty black Blutak: Black Tack 19mm x 1m, high strength adhesive putty for: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics I often use that for attaching lavs to lecterns etc. Pete

July 23rd, 2014, 03:22 PM	#36
David Payne Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: UK Posts: 32	Re: lavalier microphone to a female officiant the mics I use are ATR3350's which have a battery pack inline so that probably wont be too good for this scenario. The other one I have for better quality sound (I use it on the groom for ceremony) is the Rode Lavalier which has no battery pack but at £150 its quite expensive to use with an mp3 recorder.. any recommendations on a decent low cost mic to use with the Olympus in this situation?

July 24th, 2014, 03:24 PM	#37
David Payne Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: UK Posts: 32	Re: lavalier microphone to a female officiant I tried clipping onto the registrars jacket up high on the next line today and hid the recorder under her hair.. it worked really well! One of my mics however did let me down on a best man speech, I assume a connection where I had to cut some hugely excessive cable out of the ATR3350 and re-solder so in short.. I'm still looking for suggestions for affordable lavalier mics that do not need external power supplies and don't have a 200ft cable like the ATR3350!

July 24th, 2014, 03:55 PM	#38
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Re: lavalier microphone to a female officiant http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/89741-REG/Azden_EX_503_EX_503_Lavalier_Mic.html I use this with my Tascam DR-05 and it hasn't let me down. Decent sound and for the money, you can buy a bunch of them. __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

July 24th, 2014, 06:07 PM	#39
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: lavalier microphone to a female officiant All my lavs are also 503's ..they work well and take a lot of abuse ..So far in 15 years I had to replace just one of them as the cable had a break right near the body of the mic so it wasn't worth the hassle of trying to cut away the body to resolder the cable. I get them from Azden direct for a mere $20.00! They also make variations of the 503 if you need a 3.5mm screw fitting and also with different plugs. Chris

July 24th, 2014, 08:06 PM	#40
Robert Benda Trustee Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Crookston, MN Posts: 1,353	Re: lavalier microphone to a female officiant We have to be more careful in the U.S. 5 or so years ago they changed the microphone frequencies on us, and everybody had to change over. I held out for a few years, but slowly started getting more interference. Now, a few years later, there are murmurs it will happen again. Obnoxiously, as a DJ, I have a couple of nice wireless microphones, 2 handheld, one headset, one lavalier. Unfortunately, the receiver isn't portable at all, which means its not really suitable for video work. I suppose it would be great for a service with a bunch of vicars, though.... I'd just setup my usual rig, run all the mics into my mixer, then record the output clean. For now, pocket recorders remain the best option, though I do have one inexpensive ($180) lavalier microphone setup that I use on the pastor/priest when possible.

July 25th, 2014, 02:00 AM	#42
David Payne Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: UK Posts: 32	Re: lavalier microphone to a female officiant thanks guys I'll read up on those and buy a load of one type. They all look pretty ugly compared to my ATR3350's but that might be because all the pics have the wind screens on! My Rode Lavalier does work with my H1 no problem Peter. One concern is having to rely on the Zoom H1's plugin power. I dont know if this will make the H1's any less reliable (reliability has always been an issue for me until I was advised to not use recharables but now I only use alkaline batteries they have been 100% reliable.. so far..) and also how it will affect the battery life as my current mics have their own in line power. On a single AA I can now get 2hrs recording without having to get twitchy (in my tests at home they actually last 3 or 4 hours sometimes) but this will obviously be reduced by using the plugin power.I suppose I could test using the Rode thinking about it.. but I currently use that for ceremonies anyway (as it seems to pick up a wider area which is more handy for capturing the bride as well) and I know it can go 1hr plus with no battery failure, they're usually on full or half when I remove them. Just had a look through all of those mics, the Pronomic LA-30 seems great value and potentially would have been a MUCH cheaper alternative to my Rode Lavalier. I paid more for the screw on XLR connection for use with my H4N than the mic itself costs with 4 different connectors! However.. to buy 5 of them and because I'll certainly never need the additional connectors unless I decide to sell my Rode, they're a bit pricy. That leaves the 503 which a couple of you guys recommend but I can't find a photo of it even on google images without the wind screen thing. It is removable, right? The silver clip looks a bit ugly but it's a great price. Most important thing for me after sound quality is quality of the cable, I think I'd like quite a thick cable to make sure it doesn't end up breaking inside with my regular winding and unwinding into a neat ball for storage.

July 25th, 2014, 03:30 AM	#43
Peter Riding Major Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Reading Berkshire UK Posts: 872	Re: lavalier microphone to a female officiant David you are quite safe to use rechargeables :- ) I have used nothing but for years. Some equipment has a menu setting for the type of battery e.g. the Zoom H4n. Just make sure you get a good genuine brand. My favs now are the high capacity Eneloops: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 They retain their full charge for ages so you don't have to constantly top up unused cells. I use chargers that can analyse and recondition cells as well. The Maha C9000. I have 4 of those. Not sure if plugin power used on an H1 would lead to excessive drain as I seldom use anything other than the H1's onboard mics - the pick up pattern being a slightly narrower more appropriate one than a typical omni lav. Its phantom power than can be a hog on some devices. If I'm using a lav its usually with a G3 transmitter, if I'm using an H1 its usually hidden close to the couple. Pete

July 25th, 2014, 03:39 AM	#44
David Payne Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: UK Posts: 32	Re: lavalier microphone to a female officiant The reliability issue isn't down to the power running out but the H1 locking up. I had maybe 5 lock ups in 3 years and lost the file each time, an absolute nightmare. Since switching to Alkaline on Zoom's recommendation I haven't had a lock up. Expensive, but the only way I'll use them now for critical audio.

July 25th, 2014, 05:09 AM	#45
Peter Riding Major Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Reading Berkshire UK Posts: 872	Re: lavalier microphone to a female officiant Gosh, I have 4 x H1's and have never experienced a "lockup". I seem to recall that if the power runs out whilst recording then that file may be lost. A new file is created every 2gb but since 48/16 WAV files are relatively small 2gb would mean losing an entire recording I guess. Zoom were probably alluding to reliability issues with cheap rechargeables or over-use of rechargeables without reconditioning the cells - they don't last forever. I also use rechargeables for numerous flashguns, gun battery packs, H4n, shotgun mic, wireless triggers, 3 x G3 radio kits, etc with no issues. Pete