Do you always shoot weddings at 1080P/24p?

[Louis Maddalena]

I shoot 1080/24p and then import using log and transfer to Final Cut Pro, which converts the footage to ProRes for me. Then I edit in HD, and then export HD for HD delivery and uploading to the internet so that the clients friends and family can see what was shot, then if they want SD delivery I use compressor to down convert to an SD format.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Kren

My wedding season has a break for 6 weeks while we have our short wet and cold Winter so it's "play time" for me as I have a break.

I shot the entire season in 1080i then transcoded to HDV (and de-interlaced too) in VAAST Upshift and provided the end result on DVD.

Now I have the time to experiment again with Progressive ...it seems a better option as far as resolution goes (especially when de-interlacing) but sadly Upshift doesn't handle 1080 25P well at all....all complex scenes have bad pixellation so I have now gone to using the Canopus Converter that comes with Neo Booster (got the install packages free with my cameras) ... Shooting progressive and transcoding to a Canopus HQAVI file gives a great result (AVCHD and the HQAVI switched around on the timeline look pretty much identical to me!!)

So the hopefully NEW season workflow will be 1080 25p (or should I be using 720 50P ???)
Transcode to HQAVI and then deliver a PAL SD DVD. (I'm sure I read somewhere than 720 downsizes better to SD than 1080????)

I shoot doc style so 24P isn't really needed!!

Chris

[Buba Kastorski]

Originally Posted by Sean Nelson

if creates the film look everyone wants.

really?
I'd say 24fps is the last in line ingredient to create film look, standing ritgh after selective focus and proper color correction, but I might be wrong :)

Originally Posted by Greg Fiske

Agreed, people want their weddings to be magical, not natural, IMO.

Agreed,
60p slowed down to 50% looks magical, how's 24p slowed down to 50% looks?
;)

[Adam Haro]

With our HMC40 and T3i we shoot 720 30p. Our HMC70 only shoots 1080 60i.
We convert the AVCHD footage with Cineform and deinterlace on the HMC70. It all matches up pretty well on the CS4 timeline.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Adam

The HMC70 makes life easy doesn't it??? No progressive modes to choose from.

Any reason that you shoot 720 30p??? Why not 720 60p or 1080 30P ???? The manual doesn't tell you very much about progressive modes and what mode is best for which scenario.

Chris

[Ray Pegram]

Hi all,

Just to add my two bobs bit for what its worth. I shoot in 720 50p (PAL country) @ 100 fps and find this to be ideal for us shooting weddings. Editing is done in Vegas 10 in HD and then move to Architech Pro and downsize to DVD or stay in HD for Blu-Ray.

Works for us

[Chris Harding]

Hi Ray

I must admit that 720 25P makes a lot smaller files if you transcode like I do to HQAVI BUT you do have that odd bit of blur now and again on fast action. 50P is awesome for slomos though!!! In Vegas 9 I find that 50P footage takes twice as long to render as 25P

I have found that shooting at 720 seems to produce a lot better 720x576 MPEG2 than I can get from 1080 and even in HD a 1280x720 looks as good on screen as 1080 footage!!! My renders from 1080 tends to look a bit soft once it's in SD but 720 seems to retain more detail...no idea why????

I shoot documentary style so I haven't yet needed to venture into the 24P bracket but 25P is pretty close anyway!!!

Chris

[Ray Pegram]

Hi Chris,
I find that with my aging eyes its hard if not impossible to tell the difference between 1080 and 720. Yes I do love the slo-mo's that shooting in 100 fps @50p brings with it. I never shoot interlace always progressive.. don't like interlace......once you progress u never regress.....Yes you are right rendering does take some time but I just let it go over night.

As I said that format works for us and the end result be it DVD/Blu-ray or Utube is very nice.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Ray

Many thanks for that!! Do you find that 720 50P does a reasonable downsize to DVD as well??? I often get disheartened when you are editing pristine footage and the end DVD ends up looking decidedly soft!!

I have heard/read somewhere that 720 does a better job of downsizing than 1080!!

I think I also need to think about a computer upgrade !! I normally need to transcode any AVCHD as my little DuoCore battles with native footage!!!

Your information is indeed useful!! I'll try some test shots at 720 50P later

Chris

[Ray Pegram]

Hi Chris,
Yes I do find also that downsizing to DVD from 720 @ 50p is clearer then 1080 but that's only my opinion.

As I said this format works for us and we deliver 99% of our work on DVD.

My computer is an Intel Core i7 930 @ 2.80 ghz with 6gb of RAM and it crunches AVCHD files no worries... dont need to put them thru any intermediary first. I mix AVCHD an MXF on the same timeline... often fading out in AVCHD and back in with MXF. As I said before I stay in HD till Architech Pro then downside to DVD.

[Chris Harding]

Thanks Ray

I found that Vegas actually reports 720 25P and 50P both as 50P (Double PAL) However due to my slow computer I'm transcoding to Canopus HQAVI and when those files are brought in, Properties show the 25P as having a frame rate of 25 and 50P has a frame rate of 50 ... sorta more correct!!!

After editing the 720 25P seems to render to SD pretty close to realtime or faster and 50P is a lot slower but still much quicker than rendering the MTS (on my machine about 12 X realtime)

Thanks for your link and sample...your slomo is really super smooth at 50P .... maybe I'll shoot bridal arrivals at 50P and cos I use a stedicam on the photoshoot and often slomo sequences, 50P would be great there too!! Probably get away with 25P for the ceremony as there is virtually no movement!!!

Thanks again for all the input

Chris

[George Kilroy]

When you shoot and edit 720p do you encode it for DVD as a Progressive MPEG or interlaced?

I am finding that on some screens DVDs made with a Progressive MPEG show what looks like field jitter. If I make an interlaced MPEG the jitter is not there but the image resolution is lower.

[Chris Harding]

Hi George

I have always rendered my edited footage out to Sony Vegas's preset DVD PAL which is always Lower Field first and interlaced. Incoming footage shot at 1080i is made progressive before edits ...obviously 720 is already progressive.

Excuse the ignorance, but I was unaware that domestic DVD players could handle progressive SD DVD's I always thought they had to be interlaced as that's what the player expects!! You would, of course, get a lower resolution with interlaced but seriously I doubt whether the bride would ever notice it!!!

I think we tend to get paranoid about IQ nowdays... I shot 5 x 10 sec clips of my street directory today...in 1080i, 720 25P, 720 50P, 1080i transcoded to HDV and finally one in good ole DV-AVI.....I rendered each clip into an MPEG2 and then imported all the SD files back into Vegas and rendered them into one MP4 high quality file and played it thru my media player onto a big screen TV. Result???? They all looked much the same to me, even the SD one!!! If you really look hard you can see a few artifacts but the average person couldn't really tell them apart.

All I was "attempting to do" was prove to myself that I should be shooting at 720 50P rather than 1080i ...so far the results are inconclusive but I'll probably do the new season at 720 either 25P or 50P where I need good slomos (so far that has been the only plus along with the ability to grab decent stills)

Chris

[George Kilroy]

Thanks for that very useful reply Chris.
Your explanation is the same as my observations and limited knowledge of DVD players. I had been advised to keep 720p footage Progressing all the way and that DVD players would do the interlacing if necessary. In my experience that did not work though the source of that advice (not on this forum I'd add) is adamant that it should work.
I usually let Encore do the encoding which, looking at the preset, does by default make a lower field first MPEG. The problem arose when I let AME make a Progressive MPEG then mixed that in a project with interlaced MPEGs.

Seems I should just leave Encore to do the encoding.

Do you know if I'd be able to turn an already made Progessive MPEG in to an interlaced one, or do I need to go back to the source footage and re-encode it as interlaced?

[Chris Harding]

Hi George

I suspect you need to re-render the MPEG2 file so that the end result is interlaced with Lower Field first which is the norm for SD clips.

Just for interest do you shoot at 25P or 50P...it just worries me a little that at 1/50th shutter speed 25P might have a bit of motion blur if there is any fast movement...like the dancing when the party hots up???

Ray in Australia does everything at 50P and a shutter of 1/100th which solves any movement issues but is a bit restrictive at a low light reception. I do notive with my cams at 1/50th in 25P mode when you pan the camera the EVF staggers a bit which it doesn't do at 1/120th (my doesn't have 1/100th which seems weird for PAL cameras)

Chris