reception music at DVinfo.net

Osmany Tellez · November 21st, 2010, 12:26 PM

Hello..

have a quick question.....

I wonder how you deal with music at the reception.

Do you use any in your Highlights or final edit?
if you do how do you capture it?

I find it very hard in terms of time and energy to talk to the bands sound guy and ask for an output to plug my H2....also find it hard to leave it in front of some speaker cause it might get lost.

But..when I edit the dancing part of the party and only have the sound from my camaera's shotgun..the quality is too bad...plus...hard to cut the movie and have a continuos sound... do you know what I mean?

I have been editing that to a soundtrack I pick but I find that I waish they could listen to the band as they sound...they paid for it..so they should......

How you go about this.

Thanks...

Chip Thome · November 21st, 2010, 01:46 PM

I've got limited experience in the receptions but a ton of experience doing live bands, so feel qualified to toss in my two cents worth here.

Depending on the sound guy, most live bands use their instruments that have their own amps and speakers to fill the room with those sounds. The sound guy probably mics them, but those feeds are dialed back on the board to compensate for what the guitars etc pump out on their own. So pulling only a board feed is going to often give you an odd mix where the vocals, keyboard and drums are prominent, and the guitars etc are quite muted compared to what you hear live.

So you need to be able to pick up those other instruments as well to mix in post to give your edit a correct reproduction of what everyone heard.

Your board feed clarity will sound pristine, but at the same time will have a rather sterile "feel" to it as well. What your video will be missing is any ambient sound from the room/crowd etc. If people are applauding, talking and generally having fun, some traces of the sounds associated with that are needed to give your video a "real" feeling to it.

If you take a peak at this we used our Rode Stereo Videomic to grab the audio of the room and then mixed in the actual CD version of the song. We mixed down the audio from the Rode right after the song begins, and then back up again at the end.

My Radiant Bride

If you have two audio sources, your board feed and an onboard mic, you can accomplish the same thing, clarity when needed and ambient when there should be some as well.

Now leaving a recorder in front of a speaker is just great as long as the band isn't pumping out in stereo. I have worked with sound guys who output in stereo and like to pan effects from side to side That kinda screws up the recording off the speaker option. This is an example of that.

spin_realdangerous_music_video

There are several "types" of mixes sound guys will do. The names I have heard for these mixes are "back of stage" mix, "front of house" mix and "concert" mix. The only one I think I know for sure is the "concert" mix where everything is run through the board, not relying on the onstage amps and speakers as they would be lost on the size of the venue.

This sound guy, and Rod is GREAT, uses a version of "concert" or has for every time we've worked together, regardless of venue size.

half_empty_realdangerous_music_video

Because of the amplitude of the song as it progresses, I am not sure I ever scaled back the audio mix from my Rode or not as the song progressed. The board feed and the songs amplitude overpowered my Rode's amplitude in most of the mix.

Now everyone of those has been run through Adobe Audition and cleaned up as best we could without "making it a vocation" to do so.

We have just one example of a pure board feed that needed nothing added to it. On this one we took the feed from the headphone jack on the board which gave us everything. This is a solo act that uses a karaoke set up for music and accompanying vocals and her performance for the lead.

deb_johnson_realdangerous_music_video

So if you really want to do it right, you need far more than one simple to get audio source if you want to present something that sounds "good". I highly suggest the Rode Stereo Videomic as it is designed for capturing live music. Along with that we have tried to get a direct feed to a cam, to aid in syncing. Going to your Zoom will function for that, as long as you compensate for any drift it may have. We have gone now to digital recorders too, but haven't had the chance to try them out yet for live bands.

Marty Jenoff · November 21st, 2010, 05:38 PM

Great insight from Chip. I usually try to get a feed from the band or DJ. I'd say that successfully works 60% of the time. Unfortunately some people don't know their equipment well enough and they offer me a mic input (instead of an output) or they have no clue what I'm talking about. Others plug me in, but they only feed me the live instruments or CD player, not the microphones, so I miss the singing and speeches. If getting the fee doesn't work, I put my wireless in front of the speaker.

I always keep the band / DJ sound on channel 1 and my camera mic on channel 2 to get the ambient room noise.

For my closing highlights I usually use a song that the family provides.

Chris Davis · November 21st, 2010, 07:13 PM

It's most definately not worth taking a feed from the board if there's a live band. I was the "sound guy" for several years with live bands, and you probably wouldn't be satisfied with the result of recording the feed from the board. I mix for the room, not for recording, so what you end up capturing will sound radically different than what you hear live at the event. Like Chip mentioned, in many cases, you'll get only vocals and no instruments, or you'll get a couple instruments that will be overpowering the vocals, etc.

Also for that reason, I probably wouldn't allow you to record a live feed. I wouldn't want the bride and groom ever listening to that kind of recording of my band.

Dror Levi · November 21st, 2010, 07:41 PM

Great information Chip.
Me my self get my zoom connected directly to the DJ and get great sound 90% of the time.
Most of the time I will contact the DJ prior to wedding and will let him know that I will need to connect recording device for ceremony and reception.
The problem that I have is not always getting stereo from the DJ and I always connect it the same way.
The DJs are not able to tell me why it is not coming stereo to the zoom and they assuring me that they are playing stereo.
I wander if anyone here have an answer for this issue.

Chip Thome · November 21st, 2010, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dror Levi

Great information Chip.
......
The problem that I have is not always getting stereo from the DJ and I always connect it the same way.
The DJs are not able to tell me why it is not coming stereo to the zoom and they assuring me that they are playing stereo.
I wander if anyone here have an answer for this issue.

Every board connection I have had has needed two cables or a stereo cable with two connectors to get output from both a left and right channel. The only time we got a single cable stereo output was the one where we pulled output from the headphone jack. We always supplied cables in order to hook to the boards. That eliminated the sound guy having to stop and scramble to find something to hook us up as he was busy doing his job of adjusting the board for the sound.

What really kind of shocked me though as we got into this, the number of bands etc that don't output to stereo. I had just assumed everyone was stereo as it has become the norm in everything else. I don't know if it is easier, or cheaper or what. But lots around here just pump out mono to each bank of speakers.

Chris Davis · November 22nd, 2010, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chip Thome

What really kind of shocked me though as we got into this, the number of bands etc that don't output to stereo. I had just assumed everyone was stereo as it has become the norm in everything else. I don't know if it is easier, or cheaper or what. But lots around here just pump out mono to each bank of speakers.

Stereo recordings were developed as a way to create the impression of sound heard from various directions, as in natural hearing. When you go see a live band in a small venue, such as a bar or wedding reception hall, the audio you hear does not come just from the main house speakers. You hear some of the lead guitar from the guitar amp on stage, some of raw unamplified drums, some of the bass from the bass amp, and even some of the vocals from the monitors or directly from the singer's mouth. The main speakers are simply to reinforce the natural audio you're hearing directly from the source(s). So while the sound board is not mixing stereo, you most definitely are hearing stereo.

Chip Thome · November 22nd, 2010, 01:14 PM

Thanks Chris that clears up for me something I had wondered about. Coming to all of this with basically a consumer mindset, it was something that just seemed odd when I learned it wasn't done in stereo.

November 21st, 2010, 12:26 PM	#1
Osmany Tellez Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Panama City Posts: 190	reception music Hello.. have a quick question..... I wonder how you deal with music at the reception. Do you use any in your Highlights or final edit? if you do how do you capture it? I find it very hard in terms of time and energy to talk to the bands sound guy and ask for an output to plug my H2....also find it hard to leave it in front of some speaker cause it might get lost. But..when I edit the dancing part of the party and only have the sound from my camaera's shotgun..the quality is too bad...plus...hard to cut the movie and have a continuos sound... do you know what I mean? I have been editing that to a soundtrack I pick but I find that I waish they could listen to the band as they sound...they paid for it..so they should...... How you go about this. Thanks... __________________ FCPS2, G5 Dual core 2.0 GHz, 2.5 Ram, Dell 2408, M-audio DX4, DVX 100A, Sachtler DV6, Manfrotto 561B, Zoom H-4, RE-50, AT890 shotgun, steadicam Merlin,

November 21st, 2010, 05:38 PM	#3
Marty Jenoff Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 102	What I do Great insight from Chip. I usually try to get a feed from the band or DJ. I'd say that successfully works 60% of the time. Unfortunately some people don't know their equipment well enough and they offer me a mic input (instead of an output) or they have no clue what I'm talking about. Others plug me in, but they only feed me the live instruments or CD player, not the microphones, so I miss the singing and speeches. If getting the fee doesn't work, I put my wireless in front of the speaker. I always keep the band / DJ sound on channel 1 and my camera mic on channel 2 to get the ambient room noise. For my closing highlights I usually use a song that the family provides. __________________ Marty Jenoff www.focalpp.com

November 21st, 2010, 07:41 PM	#5
Dror Levi Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Pembroke Pines FL Posts: 331	Great information Chip. Me my self get my zoom connected directly to the DJ and get great sound 90% of the time. Most of the time I will contact the DJ prior to wedding and will let him know that I will need to connect recording device for ceremony and reception. The problem that I have is not always getting stereo from the DJ and I always connect it the same way. The DJs are not able to tell me why it is not coming stereo to the zoom and they assuring me that they are playing stereo. I wander if anyone here have an answer for this issue. __________________ www.nostalgicFrames.com

November 21st, 2010, 01:46 PM	#2
Chip Thome Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Green Bay Wisconsin Posts: 553	I've got limited experience in the receptions but a ton of experience doing live bands, so feel qualified to toss in my two cents worth here. Depending on the sound guy, most live bands use their instruments that have their own amps and speakers to fill the room with those sounds. The sound guy probably mics them, but those feeds are dialed back on the board to compensate for what the guitars etc pump out on their own. So pulling only a board feed is going to often give you an odd mix where the vocals, keyboard and drums are prominent, and the guitars etc are quite muted compared to what you hear live. So you need to be able to pick up those other instruments as well to mix in post to give your edit a correct reproduction of what everyone heard. Your board feed clarity will sound pristine, but at the same time will have a rather sterile "feel" to it as well. What your video will be missing is any ambient sound from the room/crowd etc. If people are applauding, talking and generally having fun, some traces of the sounds associated with that are needed to give your video a "real" feeling to it. If you take a peak at this we used our Rode Stereo Videomic to grab the audio of the room and then mixed in the actual CD version of the song. We mixed down the audio from the Rode right after the song begins, and then back up again at the end. My Radiant Bride If you have two audio sources, your board feed and an onboard mic, you can accomplish the same thing, clarity when needed and ambient when there should be some as well. Now leaving a recorder in front of a speaker is just great as long as the band isn't pumping out in stereo. I have worked with sound guys who output in stereo and like to pan effects from side to side That kinda screws up the recording off the speaker option. This is an example of that. spin_realdangerous_music_video There are several "types" of mixes sound guys will do. The names I have heard for these mixes are "back of stage" mix, "front of house" mix and "concert" mix. The only one I think I know for sure is the "concert" mix where everything is run through the board, not relying on the onstage amps and speakers as they would be lost on the size of the venue. This sound guy, and Rod is GREAT, uses a version of "concert" or has for every time we've worked together, regardless of venue size. half_empty_realdangerous_music_video Because of the amplitude of the song as it progresses, I am not sure I ever scaled back the audio mix from my Rode or not as the song progressed. The board feed and the songs amplitude overpowered my Rode's amplitude in most of the mix. Now everyone of those has been run through Adobe Audition and cleaned up as best we could without "making it a vocation" to do so. We have just one example of a pure board feed that needed nothing added to it. On this one we took the feed from the headphone jack on the board which gave us everything. This is a solo act that uses a karaoke set up for music and accompanying vocals and her performance for the lead. deb_johnson_realdangerous_music_video So if you really want to do it right, you need far more than one simple to get audio source if you want to present something that sounds "good". I highly suggest the Rode Stereo Videomic as it is designed for capturing live music. Along with that we have tried to get a direct feed to a cam, to aid in syncing. Going to your Zoom will function for that, as long as you compensate for any drift it may have. We have gone now to digital recorders too, but haven't had the chance to try them out yet for live bands.

November 21st, 2010, 07:13 PM	#4
Chris Davis Trustee Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Willmar, MN Posts: 1,400	It's most definately not worth taking a feed from the board if there's a live band. I was the "sound guy" for several years with live bands, and you probably wouldn't be satisfied with the result of recording the feed from the board. I mix for the room, not for recording, so what you end up capturing will sound radically different than what you hear live at the event. Like Chip mentioned, in many cases, you'll get only vocals and no instruments, or you'll get a couple instruments that will be overpowering the vocals, etc. Also for that reason, I probably wouldn't allow you to record a live feed. I wouldn't want the bride and groom ever listening to that kind of recording of my band.

November 22nd, 2010, 01:14 PM	#8
Chip Thome Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Green Bay Wisconsin Posts: 553	Thanks Chris that clears up for me something I had wondered about. Coming to all of this with basically a consumer mindset, it was something that just seemed odd when I learned it wasn't done in stereo.