Clients Very Disappointed...

[Michael Simons]

Originally Posted by Scott Hayes

I have a couple right now (arabic) both of them wonderful people. she is a true sweetheart. but he wanted to come and edit with me, I said no. I delivered a tight finished product. they want a bunch of creative changes. Told them there would be charges, and we could get to it after the new year. Multicultural events, I quote them much higher and really don't care to take them on anymore.

I don't go to work with my car insurance guy. I don't go to work with the truck driver who picks up my garbage. When i'm in a restaurant, I don't go in the kitchen and tell the Chef how to cook. Why should a bride/groom help us edit? ;-)

[Peter Ralph]

But surely you do tell the insurance guy what level and type of insurance you want, and the chef what to cook.

The photographer which photographs in what type of album at what size with what types of filters.

This thread is about a miscommunication. The service provider thought that the client would read the contract, the client thought that 10 hours of coverage meant 10 hours of video.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Peter

You hit the nail on the head!! The most famous client complaint is "....but I thought that I was going to get.........."
I think that if you do decide to tackle ethic weddings or have to communicate with clients who do not use English as their first language, then some extra time spent explaining you it all works will more than likely save you a lot of issues later.

I would seriously consider leaving the couple with a full DVD of a similar wedding so they can watch it and then they will have a close idea of what to expect without any nasty surprises!! If you are not going to supply (what Philip calls CCTV footage) ie: everything that occured on the day then a "example" DVD can quite easily break down any mis-communication barriers and the couple will see exactly what they will get.

Chris

[Jim Snow]

I don't buy the "they don't understand" bit. I believe you are being gamed with this little skit. The fact is their objective is to get as much from you as possible for as little in return as they can get by with. They would say that is just "good business." There is just one 'little' detail; their idea of good business is worlds apart from yours. We operate with a "win-win" attitude in business; that is the belief that the best business deal benefits both parties. Unfortunately in some parts of the world, there is no concept of win-win. From their viewpoint, there is a winner and a loser in a business deal and their intention is for you to be the loser. To them, when some PC westerner starts babbling about win-win, they think they are listening to a fool. It's also a very good idea to get paid in full in advance because if you don't, you are going to hear that they don't want to pay the balance because they aren't satisfied with your work.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Jim

That was my situation to a "T" !! She wanted as much as possible for as little money as possible but wasn't prepared to compromise.

Thanks!! very wise words but for these particular cultures I think rather than get paid in advance and have the bride on my back for months after the event saying you didn't do this and didn't do that, I would much rather say no and either book another bride or have that day off. Even a payment in advance wouldn't compensate for all the hassle and whining and demands for re-dos that one would enevitably have to endure.

Any futher enquiries will be politely refused on the grounds that I just don't have the necessary man-power to shoot in the style requested.

Chris

[Philip Howells]

Originally Posted by Jim Snow

Unfortunately in some parts of the world, there is no concept of win-win. From their viewpoint, there is a winner and a loser in a business deal

Funny you should use that expression Jim because last November when I was pressed by a "salesman" for a deal I smilingly but seriously told him I ran a professional service not a bazaar.

[Michael Simons]

Originally Posted by Peter Ralph

But surely you do tell the insurance guy what level and type of insurance you want, and the chef what to cook.

The photographer which photographs in what type of album at what size with what types of filters.

This thread is about a miscommunication. The service provider thought that the client would read the contract, the client thought that 10 hours of coverage meant 10 hours of video.

I tell the Chef what to cook, I don't sit next to him while he cooks it and tell him what to do.

[Raji Ahmed]

Chris, sorry for the mess you got into. My video and photo guy had a ball at our wedding and loved the food, which we were happy to serve to them while they took a break. Neither had ever shot an Indian wedding. And I didn't expect them to be on their feet capturing every single second of the day. I think there's definitely a difference shooting a western wedding. For an Indian wedding, imagine how hard it would be to put a 10-15 hour video, which covers days of celebrations, into a one or two hour DVD. The expectations are different when you have one evening of celebrations versus days of it.

I think its fair to say that not everyone is aware of what it takes to put together a professional looking end product. What you guys do is phenomenal. I aspire to have my work like yours. I will get that opportunity real soon and look forward to it. I'm trying to tap the Indian market in my area because its my comfort zone for now, and if I could put together even half of what you all do in my community, people would be blown away.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Raji

I actually have done a few Indian receptions and no problems at all!! (I LOVE Indian food too!!!) I actually have one coming up on 29th and the groom already knows that us Westerner's don't shoot 6 hours of video for a 6 hour reception so it will be fine.

Indian weddings here are usually just the reception as the couple "go home" to India for the traditional 2 or 3 day ceremony and employ locals to do both stills and video for that.

It only seems to be Middle Eastern couples that have the strange reception requirements and the strange way of doing business!!!

Chris

[Peter Ralph]

This is a simple miscommunication based on cultural differences. No-one reads contracts.

There seems a wodespread consensus that wanting a 3-4 hour video is a strange and unreasonable expectation. But it only seems that way to people familiar with modern wedding video.

A "normal" couple shopping for a wedding video may reasonably expect: a love story video, a same day video, a highlights video, a short-form video, and a long form video

and we all think the desire for 5 videos is completely reasonable, and shows sophistication and good taste.

[Jeff Kellam]

Kevin:

I dont know what all has transpired since November, but I would provide them the entire production on portable hard drive at no charge now, or in the future if you are still working on this. It would be a good faith gesture and they can pursue the editing with someone else if they wish.

Early on in this thread Chris had said not to provide the raw footage, he should have elaborated on this as I see no reason not too. For a $40 portable HD charge, I offer the complete production, vegs, raw video, etc. to all my clients. And since I have quit archiving any wedding productions, it is then up to the client to keep the data.

Jeff

[Travis Cossel]

Jeff, are you only charging $40 to give the couple the raw footage and project files on HD?

If so, I would suggest charging more. Just because the hard drive only costs you $40 doesn't mean you should only charge the client $40. It takes you time to purchase the hard drive, time to put the footage on the hard drive, time to deliver it or have the couple come by and pick it up. Never mind the fact that you're delivering to the couple a product that is surely worth more to them than $40.

We offer a similar product/service but we charge $650 for it. In this video business it's already hard enough to get paid appropriately without giving things away at cost. Anyways, I would just reconsider charging more. Don't sell yourself short.

[Chris Harding]

In my days of tape I started having storage problems so I used to give the couple the original tapes as a "backup" Most people had a miniDV camcorder so they could play raw footage too. My thinking here was that most couples have a good 40 years on me so when I'm pushing up daisies they will still be around and have some sort of backup if their DVD became damaged.

Shooting HD now onto card means that most client's don't have the CPU power to play AVCHD raw footage anyway so that would mean that you might have to transcode this down to SD so they could actually use it on a normal computer.

Wouldn't it just be easier to give them a "backup DVD" of the MPEG2 files that you use to make the DVD so they have "edited" raw footage..it seems a bit of an overkill to provide even the project files!!!

With Kevin's dilemma...try to finalise the issue Kevin and move on!! I think we all will have an unreasonable bride (or bridezilla) at some stage so do the best you can to satisfy her (although you probably never will make her happy (they are like that) It's water under the bridge!! Enjoy your next set of weddings and forget this one ever existed!!

Chris

[Jeff Kellam]

Travis:

My wedding packages are kind of expensive for the area (not high end, just expensive) starting at $2,400 USD and usually over $3K, so I dont want to push it too far.

Chris:

I just move the whole project directory over to the portable hard drive. They literally get everything including the PSD files for the artwork, whatever has been touched. The only exception is when it wont fit on the portable hard drives I have at the time (leaving 20GB of overhead free space, just in case).

Probably none of my clients have the software or hardware to do anything with this stuff. But in 20 or 30 years when the DVDs are toast, and so am I, they may have something to work with. If I keep it, everyone has lost for sure.

If I were providing pressed DVDs, I wouldnt worry so much. But if these burned DVDs only last 10 years, even if it's because of improper storage, the whole video project is a total loss.

[Stephen J. Williams]

Originally Posted by Kevin Hill

We just delivered what we thought was quite a good wedding video to some clients, but they have come back with a long list of complaints / changes. It's so frustrating because we spent way more time editing their video than other clients' videos due to problems with the ceremony

Now I'm in a similar boat as Kevin, although by now he's probably resolved his issues... My product includes a short 25 to 30 minute main edit which I feel is edited to that "cinematic" style. Another disc is then included which has the entire ceremony (readings and such), more dancing form the reception, and whatever else that just didn't seem to fit with the story of the main edit.

My contract states that the client has one week to get back with me with any sorta issues, and that I also have creative control.

Three weeks ago I delivered what I thought to be a well polished edit to a couple. After about a week or so I asked them if they had watched it, they said not yet... I waited an additional 2 more weeks without any word. It wasn't until last night that I had to clear out their files to create more room on my hard drives.
Surely (because I must be unlucky) I received a very long email today about how unsatisfied they were with the product. At this point there is nothing I can do.... Their raw files are gone and all I have saved were the files to create more DVD's.

It seems that some couples book me without knowing what they are really getting (even though I clearly tell them when I meet them, plus provided most of them with a DVD of my latest wedding). I feel that I'm providing them with a great edit that tells the story of their day, included with little details such as intro cast, ending credits, film-score soundtrack, and many hours of post production.

There seems to be two types of videogs in my area... those who create an artistic video of the couples day, and those who press record, leave, eat, and then come back to press stop. It just seems like some couples aren't ready for the first option that I listed...

As I wrap up this post, I originally wanted to turn this into a question for those who produce the same product as my self. However, I'm more inclined to leave this as a rant.. It seems sometimes the safer way is to just include 10 hours of video compressed onto a DVD, one camera in every corner of the room. Not worry about the things we care about as a professional... Just to include as much as you can without consideration to the story line or quality...

Steve