$1,000 for wedding coverage?!

Craig Seeman · November 27th, 2005, 11:25 AM

A great Seafood restaurant does not have to be a great Steak House. One doesn't need to be all things to all people. Nor have I found that all brides want the same thing.

Shoot and edit in the style YOU LIKE, then market it to those who want it. As long as what you do has a demand in the niche, you can make a living and enjoy what you do.

While there's much controversy about using copyrighted music in wedding videos (I don't), it's asking for trouble to put it on the web! One can't very well claim "personal use" if one's posting it to the very public web, announcing you use such music, showing your rate card for your videos with such music . . . unless one feels that they will NEVER go after such folks. That topic has been over discussed though.

BTW, like anything else one does for a living, HDV is valuable if you can sell it. With something like 7% HDTV market penetration and no HDDVD, BluRay consumer playback and no affordable recorders I don't think there's much demand unless a client is willing to pay for a future copy (and they may). This may all change in a year or two of course. The best way to find out is advertise/market HD services and see how many say that's why they came to you. I certainly wouldn't put it in the $1000 wedding market though.

Tommy James · November 27th, 2005, 11:31 AM

Well maybe what brides want is not high definition but rather slow motion. On my camera my high definition mode only shoots 30 frames per secound which is not too good for slow motion but in standard definition it can shoot 60 progessive frames per secound for some outstanding slow motion footage. Not too many cameras can shoot a full 60 progressive frames per secound most are limited to 30 frames progressive or 60 frames interlaced. A Panasonic HVX200 can shoot 720p at a full 60 progressive frames per secound so does that mean that its the "wedding camera" for the ultimate high definition slo mo?

Tommy James · November 27th, 2005, 11:50 AM

As far as market penetration with HDTV in 2004 20% of all televisions sold were HDTVs. However because the HDTV costs more than the standard definition television it would be reasonable to conclude that that HDTV has the majority of market share dollar for dollar of all new televisions sold. So if all the money is in HDTV why do people still think its just a niche market ?

Craig Seeman · November 27th, 2005, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy James

As far as market penetration with HDTV in 2004 20% of all televisions sold were HDTVs. However because the HDTV costs more than the standard definition television it would be reasonable to conclude that that HDTV has the majority of market share dollar for dollar of all new televisions sold. So if all the money is in HDTV why do people still think its just a niche market ?

TV's sold in 2004 is not a percentage of households owning HDTV. Typical replacement might be 5-7 years or longer. 20% sales might only cover a few percentage points and it means 80% of those buying just bought a brand new SD TV set they may not replace for 5-7 years.

If HDTV sold at 100% each year it may still take about 3 years to have 50% of the market. Add that to the time it'll take for HDDVD and BluRay players to enter the market and then sell enough.

The whole market will start to escalate when: it doesn't cost extra to view HDTV channels from providers, players enter the market, discs enter the market that people will buy/rent. My guess is it'll be about 18-24 months for the numbers to start to climb (and my guess they will at that point). By then the FX2/Z2 will be out, JVC will have a new model too, Pansonic HVX200 recording/archival media prices will drop.

Shucks, my Crystal ball is beginning to cloud.

Another look at the math.
Figure if only about 10-15% of all households buy a new TV in a given year and only 20% of that market about 2.5% of entire market bought HDTV then you're looking at 4 years before there's 10% market penetration. They'll probably hit that in another year or so.

Steven Gotz · November 27th, 2005, 12:23 PM

Perhaps only 20% of the televisions being purchased are HDTV. OK. So go after those people. The ones with HDTV might be willing to pay extra for a wedding video that looks better than anything else they have seen.

Isn't that a reasonable goal? Pursue the people with extra disposable income?

Tommy James · November 27th, 2005, 01:32 PM

Also when you look at the statistics the numbers may be a little misleading. Back in the old days it was very common to give a color television set your first consideration for your living room but it was considered estravagent to buy a color television set for your bedroom. But was color television considered a failure because of lack of market share?

So I think today we have the same phenomenon I think that for the main television that is in the living room the HDTV has the majority of the market share of all new televisions sold. Simply put if someone is buying a television for the living room more people will choose an HDTV than any other kind of television. However televisions destined for the kitchen or the bedroom are probably going to be standard definition. So the so called failure of HDTV is simply due to the fact that most houses have more bedrooms than living rooms.

Tommy James · November 27th, 2005, 01:51 PM

Also another thing to consider is the cost of high definition television. Right now it is possible to make the radical claim that HDTV saves money over standard defintion. This is because the FCC is requiring that more and more televisions have to include a free ATSC tuner that is capable of receiving free high definition signals over the air. Also major metropolitan areas broadcast free HDTV signals that require nothing more than a set of amplified rabbit ears to pick up even a weak digital signal which would be impossible to do with analog.

Marcus Marchesseault · November 27th, 2005, 06:54 PM

How about this:

Shoot in HDV, edit in DV, sell them the HDV source like photographers sell their negatives. Just tell them that there is no good editing/delivery path right now for HD, but they can at least have the tape for the future. Heck, you might even be able to sell them the HD re-edit later.

I've always thought that was nickel-and-dimeing the customers, but photographers got away with it for decades. At least, for HDV, there is an excuse in that there is no delivery format.

Steven Gotz · November 27th, 2005, 06:57 PM

There is a delivery mechanism. A very good one. And it sells for only $250 - which considering they spent ten times that or more on the HDTV should not be a problem.

People keep saying that there is no delivery mechanism. Yet I use one all of the time. And so do my customers.

Craig Seeman · November 28th, 2005, 02:58 PM

There are DVD players that can Play WMVHD. Very Few though on the market. JVC's ioData is about $350 though. You can buy one for the customer and build it in to the cost. With HDTV at 7% of the market I suspect only a VERY SMALL portion of that number have DVD player than can play WMVHD.

Steven Gotz · November 28th, 2005, 03:07 PM

That is very interesting. The I-O-Data AVeL Linkplayer2 sells for $250 and the JVC version for $399. Yet the JVC was built along the same lines with I-O-Data's help. Very interesting.

Craig Seeman · November 28th, 2005, 04:00 PM

JVC is distributing the updated ioData. It's a new version with DVI outs added which will mean people with Apple Cinema Displays and the like will be able to view WMVHD even if they don't have HDTV yet. Not sure if that means JVC is exclusive and ioData won't otherwise sell in USA (or other) market. JVC was showing the box at the Cine Equipment Expo in NYC a couple of months back.

BTW I also hear the new XBOX can play WMVHD also. Now that might get some serious market penetration and I wouldn't be surprised if the same kind of folks who buy HDTV might also buy an XBOX.

Of course non of this would fall into the $1000 wedding but it can open up an upscale market for HD weddings.

Michael Padilla · November 28th, 2005, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

BTW I also hear the new XBOX can play WMVHD also. Now that might get some serious market penetration and I wouldn't be surprised if the same kind of folks who buy HDTV might also buy an XBOX.

Cool, if this is true I'm buying an xbox 360 (what a great excuse to buy a new gaming console :)

A.J. Briones · November 28th, 2005, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Padilla

Cool, if this is true I'm buying an xbox 360 (what a great excuse to buy a new gaming console :)

when i'm not doing wedding videos, i work in the videogame industry (it's more like the other way around). i suggest you wait a bit (though you might be forced to due to product shortage). there's a heating issue with the power supply.

Craig Terott · November 29th, 2005, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.J. Briones

i suggest you wait a bit (though you might be forced to due to product shortage). there's a heating issue with the power supply.

A bit off topic but... this "product shortage" was carefully thought by their marketing team. It's human nature to want something that's in short supply and it's human nature to talk about it and write about it. The shortage may really be happening - but realize it's was created on purpose.

November 27th, 2005, 12:23 PM	#50
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	Perhaps only 20% of the televisions being purchased are HDTV. OK. So go after those people. The ones with HDTV might be willing to pay extra for a wedding video that looks better than anything else they have seen. Isn't that a reasonable goal? Pursue the people with extra disposable income? __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

November 27th, 2005, 06:57 PM	#54
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	There is a delivery mechanism. A very good one. And it sells for only $250 - which considering they spent ten times that or more on the HDTV should not be a problem. People keep saying that there is no delivery mechanism. Yet I use one all of the time. And so do my customers. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

November 28th, 2005, 03:07 PM	#56
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	That is very interesting. The I-O-Data AVeL Linkplayer2 sells for $250 and the JVC version for $399. Yet the JVC was built along the same lines with I-O-Data's help. Very interesting. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

November 27th, 2005, 11:25 AM	#46
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	A great Seafood restaurant does not have to be a great Steak House. One doesn't need to be all things to all people. Nor have I found that all brides want the same thing. Shoot and edit in the style YOU LIKE, then market it to those who want it. As long as what you do has a demand in the niche, you can make a living and enjoy what you do. While there's much controversy about using copyrighted music in wedding videos (I don't), it's asking for trouble to put it on the web! One can't very well claim "personal use" if one's posting it to the very public web, announcing you use such music, showing your rate card for your videos with such music . . . unless one feels that they will NEVER go after such folks. That topic has been over discussed though. BTW, like anything else one does for a living, HDV is valuable if you can sell it. With something like 7% HDTV market penetration and no HDDVD, BluRay consumer playback and no affordable recorders I don't think there's much demand unless a client is willing to pay for a future copy (and they may). This may all change in a year or two of course. The best way to find out is advertise/market HD services and see how many say that's why they came to you. I certainly wouldn't put it in the $1000 wedding market though.

November 27th, 2005, 11:31 AM	#47
Tommy James suspended -- contact admin Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 214	Well maybe what brides want is not high definition but rather slow motion. On my camera my high definition mode only shoots 30 frames per secound which is not too good for slow motion but in standard definition it can shoot 60 progessive frames per secound for some outstanding slow motion footage. Not too many cameras can shoot a full 60 progressive frames per secound most are limited to 30 frames progressive or 60 frames interlaced. A Panasonic HVX200 can shoot 720p at a full 60 progressive frames per secound so does that mean that its the "wedding camera" for the ultimate high definition slo mo?

November 27th, 2005, 11:50 AM	#48
Tommy James suspended -- contact admin Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 214	As far as market penetration with HDTV in 2004 20% of all televisions sold were HDTVs. However because the HDTV costs more than the standard definition television it would be reasonable to conclude that that HDTV has the majority of market share dollar for dollar of all new televisions sold. So if all the money is in HDTV why do people still think its just a niche market ?

November 27th, 2005, 01:32 PM	#51
Tommy James suspended -- contact admin Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 214	Also when you look at the statistics the numbers may be a little misleading. Back in the old days it was very common to give a color television set your first consideration for your living room but it was considered estravagent to buy a color television set for your bedroom. But was color television considered a failure because of lack of market share? So I think today we have the same phenomenon I think that for the main television that is in the living room the HDTV has the majority of the market share of all new televisions sold. Simply put if someone is buying a television for the living room more people will choose an HDTV than any other kind of television. However televisions destined for the kitchen or the bedroom are probably going to be standard definition. So the so called failure of HDTV is simply due to the fact that most houses have more bedrooms than living rooms.

November 27th, 2005, 01:51 PM	#52
Tommy James suspended -- contact admin Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 214	Also another thing to consider is the cost of high definition television. Right now it is possible to make the radical claim that HDTV saves money over standard defintion. This is because the FCC is requiring that more and more televisions have to include a free ATSC tuner that is capable of receiving free high definition signals over the air. Also major metropolitan areas broadcast free HDTV signals that require nothing more than a set of amplified rabbit ears to pick up even a weak digital signal which would be impossible to do with analog.

November 27th, 2005, 06:54 PM	#53
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	How about this: Shoot in HDV, edit in DV, sell them the HDV source like photographers sell their negatives. Just tell them that there is no good editing/delivery path right now for HD, but they can at least have the tape for the future. Heck, you might even be able to sell them the HD re-edit later. I've always thought that was nickel-and-dimeing the customers, but photographers got away with it for decades. At least, for HDV, there is an excuse in that there is no delivery format.

November 28th, 2005, 02:58 PM	#55
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	There are DVD players that can Play WMVHD. Very Few though on the market. JVC's ioData is about $350 though. You can buy one for the customer and build it in to the cost. With HDTV at 7% of the market I suspect only a VERY SMALL portion of that number have DVD player than can play WMVHD.

November 28th, 2005, 04:00 PM	#57
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	JVC is distributing the updated ioData. It's a new version with DVI outs added which will mean people with Apple Cinema Displays and the like will be able to view WMVHD even if they don't have HDTV yet. Not sure if that means JVC is exclusive and ioData won't otherwise sell in USA (or other) market. JVC was showing the box at the Cine Equipment Expo in NYC a couple of months back. BTW I also hear the new XBOX can play WMVHD also. Now that might get some serious market penetration and I wouldn't be surprised if the same kind of folks who buy HDTV might also buy an XBOX. Of course non of this would fall into the $1000 wedding but it can open up an upscale market for HD weddings.