Has BluRay helped your business?

Taky Cheung · March 20th, 2010, 01:55 AM

Offering BluRay back in 2007 gives me an edge in the competitive market. It also makes me ready to author in BluRay now without the time wasted in the steep learning curve. I got couple signed me up because I have HD capability.

Back in 2007, BD burner was $350. Black disc is $20. Now in 2010, LG BD burner is $150 and Blank inkjet printable DVD is abotu $5 each.

Dimitris Mantalias · March 20th, 2010, 08:36 AM

I think BD helped us a lot. We did our first HD wedding back in 2007 and the groom was one of the founders of the biggest hi-tech forum in Greece. We delivered an iso file (didn't have the burner yet) and since it was a complete success, we bought one for 300 Euros and started promoting Bluray. Since then, it really gave us a boost. Many b&g's didn't know about the new format (and they still don't) but they are very positive to the fact that we give something more and when we showed them the HD footage, they knew it was future-proof. Many of them didn't have a player yet, but they loved having it in HD quality because sooner or later they'd buy one. At that time, we were one of the very few in Greece to deliver that, so in terms of promotion against the competition (though I don't like the word competition) it worked very well. The biggest amount of our weddings are now shot in HD.

We always say "Buy a PS3" though. It's the best player out there, with new firmware upgrades and it doesn't have the problems of incompatibility of other cheap players (Verbatim and cheap Samsung players for example).

And I am with Perrone in this one. We have the camcorders, we have the fast computers, it's a shame not to give this option to the client that will definitely be impressed and may choose your job easily over another equal quality videographer that doesn't offer the new format. As for the times of render, it's not that bad. We work with Sony Architect and for a 2-hour project the computer needs 1:10-1:30 hours of render (quad-core PC with Windows 7). Of course it's required that you already have your video files exported at the right MPEG format (that may be a bit slower), or Architect may re-render your footage which is bad, in both quality and time. If you have too much footage and go for H264 format, well then... it needs A LOT of time. But since wedding edits are rarely more than 2 hours nowadays, this won't be a problem.

Travis Cossel · March 21st, 2010, 12:15 PM

Just a few thoughts ...

First, one of the top studios in the world doesn't offer Blu-Ray to their clients. Couples paying $15k, $20k and even $30k are not given the option for BR. So no one should think that they HAVE to offer BR. Obviously you don't.

Second, we do offer an "HD Upgrade". It can be either BR or HD-file type delivery. In our market, though, there has been very little interest in it. So far we've only had one couple upgrade. I wouldn't say at this point that offering the option of BR has helped our business, but it hasn't hurt it either.

Lastly, make sure you adjust your pricing. In our case, we charge extra for the upgrade. If you're including BR standard, then make sure you've increased your package pricing to reflect that. Too many studios out there add new equipment, software and other capabilities all the time and just keep their pricing the same. They think that it's a huge advantage to just include something new so they have something over their competition.

The problem with this approach is that you're dragging down the value of what you do in your market. So if you're going to just include BR in all of your packages, increase your pricing. Don't sell yourself short. Make sure you're actually getting a return on your investments in your business.

Giroud Francois · March 21st, 2010, 03:55 PM

it is just a tool, i cannot afford to spend half a day finding somebody who has a BD burner if i need one. For $250, i can afford to get one and use it as a DVD burner if needed.

Steven Arbiu · March 21st, 2010, 10:45 PM

The main question I ask clients....... Will you pay extra for blu-ray. Almost all will say no since most don't even own a DVD player. The ones that DO want the 1080p (and most think HD is HD), I'll burn it to their hard drive at no additional charge thus eliminating the need for timely burns and blu-ray and they say, we'll wait a few years till prices come down. They DO want us to shoot in Full HD so they can have the ability to go to blu-ray in the future. Everyone knows its a waiting game.

Apple had the right idea by eliminating blu-ray. At the rate we are going with bandwidth over the internet, we will be streaming HD/Blu-ray/3DBlu-ray in a few years.

I'm all for not being cheap, but business is business, especially in a recession with no end in sight.

Taky Cheung · March 21st, 2010, 10:54 PM

When I read your post, I thought you are in a different country.. but we are both in California... It's quite different to understand who would not have a DVD player as you can buy one in Walmart or Target for $30.

When you ask clients, they will always say NO to pay additional for BD. They all want it for free =)

The price of everything is already down. LG BD burner is about $150 each. TDK Blank BD is about $5. BluRay players can be found for $100 these days. I bought my Syvania BluRay player from Amazon over a year ago for $150. It is already affordable and not sure why still have to wait for a few years. By offering BluRay, it makes you ahead in the market but not trailing.

Steven Arbiu · March 21st, 2010, 11:11 PM

If your in the upper end of the market, it's a no brainier especially if it your only business. If your competing for craigslist brides, then you have to weigh your options.

Love the video light Taky. Just used it tonight for photography.

Taky Cheung · March 21st, 2010, 11:13 PM

Hey Steve, that's true about criagslist bride (it's a new term for me.. hehe).. that was the part I haven't factored in.

Glad you like the light. Have you tried the Condenser Lens trick? It's very useful for me espeically in wedding reception =)

Taky

SiuChung Leung · March 22nd, 2010, 01:08 AM

We've been shooting in HD since 2007 but started to offer blu-ray in mid 2009. I think the blu-ray did help our business especially when you put a blu-ray case in trade show, made you stand out from other videographer. But in fact, only 5 customers really sign up for the blu-ray...

Another thing we did is offer blu-ray to our previous clients since we did the wedding in HD and we save all master output in HD. Surprisingly, over 90% of our old customers interested and 70% of them get their wedding in blu-ray which more than enough to cover the cost of the investment.

Paul Mailath · March 22nd, 2010, 03:53 AM

I use blu-ray for every wedding - not for the client but as a store for my AVCHD files.

I'm moving from HDV (tape) to AVCHD (files) and I like to have a store of the original data - it used to be tapes, now its a mixture of tapes and discs and soon it will be discs only.

Kelly Langerak · March 22nd, 2010, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taky Cheung

Hey Steve, that's true about criagslist bride (it's a new term for me.. hehe).. that was the part I haven't factored in.

Glad you like the light. Have you tried the Condenser Lens trick? It's very useful for me espeically in wedding reception =)

Taky

What kind of light is this and what's the Condenser Lens trick?

Taky Cheung · March 22nd, 2010, 11:19 AM

Paul, I think it might be cheaper to store your files in external HDD. For example, you can get a 1TB drive for $100. That's $0.097 per GB. Say like a blank BD is $5. That's $0.2 per GB. You can use the HDD dock or tray-less system for fast access.

Trayless Removable Harddrive System | L.A. Color Blog

Taky Cheung · March 22nd, 2010, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly Langerak

What kind of light is this and what's the Condenser Lens trick?

That's the Comer 1800 light. You can read more here

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/photon-m...ed-lights.html
Comer CM-LBPS1800 On-Camera LED Light | L.A. Color Shop

The condenser lens trick helps shooting in dim room while zooming in.
Comer Lights Condenser Trick | L.A. Color Blog

Cody Dulock · March 22nd, 2010, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Cossel

Just a few thoughts ...

First, one of the top studios in the world doesn't offer Blu-Ray to their clients. Couples paying $15k, $20k and even $30k are not given the option for BR. So no one should think that they HAVE to offer BR. Obviously you don't.

Second, we do offer an "HD Upgrade". It can be either BR or HD-file type delivery. In our market, though, there has been very little interest in it. So far we've only had one couple upgrade. I wouldn't say at this point that offering the option of BR has helped our business, but it hasn't hurt it either.

Lastly, make sure you adjust your pricing. In our case, we charge extra for the upgrade. If you're including BR standard, then make sure you've increased your package pricing to reflect that. Too many studios out there add new equipment, software and other capabilities all the time and just keep their pricing the same. They think that it's a huge advantage to just include something new so they have something over their competition.

The problem with this approach is that you're dragging down the value of what you do in your market. So if you're going to just include BR in all of your packages, increase your pricing. Don't sell yourself short. Make sure you're actually getting a return on your investments in your business.

Thank you for chiming in Travis.

Travis Cossel · March 22nd, 2010, 07:21 PM

No problem, Cody. d;-)

March 20th, 2010, 01:55 AM	#31
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	Offering BluRay back in 2007 gives me an edge in the competitive market. It also makes me ready to author in BluRay now without the time wasted in the steep learning curve. I got couple signed me up because I have HD capability. Back in 2007, BD burner was $350. Black disc is $20. Now in 2010, LG BD burner is $150 and Blank inkjet printable DVD is abotu $5 each. __________________ LA Color Pros Blog RODE Authorized Reseller . Comer LED Camera Lights . TakyBox HTML5 Menu Generator

March 20th, 2010, 08:36 AM	#32
Dimitris Mantalias Major Player Join Date: May 2009 Location: Arta, Greece Posts: 342	I think BD helped us a lot. We did our first HD wedding back in 2007 and the groom was one of the founders of the biggest hi-tech forum in Greece. We delivered an iso file (didn't have the burner yet) and since it was a complete success, we bought one for 300 Euros and started promoting Bluray. Since then, it really gave us a boost. Many b&g's didn't know about the new format (and they still don't) but they are very positive to the fact that we give something more and when we showed them the HD footage, they knew it was future-proof. Many of them didn't have a player yet, but they loved having it in HD quality because sooner or later they'd buy one. At that time, we were one of the very few in Greece to deliver that, so in terms of promotion against the competition (though I don't like the word competition) it worked very well. The biggest amount of our weddings are now shot in HD. We always say "Buy a PS3" though. It's the best player out there, with new firmware upgrades and it doesn't have the problems of incompatibility of other cheap players (Verbatim and cheap Samsung players for example). And I am with Perrone in this one. We have the camcorders, we have the fast computers, it's a shame not to give this option to the client that will definitely be impressed and may choose your job easily over another equal quality videographer that doesn't offer the new format. As for the times of render, it's not that bad. We work with Sony Architect and for a 2-hour project the computer needs 1:10-1:30 hours of render (quad-core PC with Windows 7). Of course it's required that you already have your video files exported at the right MPEG format (that may be a bit slower), or Architect may re-render your footage which is bad, in both quality and time. If you have too much footage and go for H264 format, well then... it needs A LOT of time. But since wedding edits are rarely more than 2 hours nowadays, this won't be a problem. __________________ "A successful wedding videographer is the one that offers for viewing some excellent videos and some boring videos, and gets positive reviews for both".

March 21st, 2010, 12:15 PM	#33
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	Just a few thoughts ... First, one of the top studios in the world doesn't offer Blu-Ray to their clients. Couples paying $15k, $20k and even $30k are not given the option for BR. So no one should think that they HAVE to offer BR. Obviously you don't. Second, we do offer an "HD Upgrade". It can be either BR or HD-file type delivery. In our market, though, there has been very little interest in it. So far we've only had one couple upgrade. I wouldn't say at this point that offering the option of BR has helped our business, but it hasn't hurt it either. Lastly, make sure you adjust your pricing. In our case, we charge extra for the upgrade. If you're including BR standard, then make sure you've increased your package pricing to reflect that. Too many studios out there add new equipment, software and other capabilities all the time and just keep their pricing the same. They think that it's a huge advantage to just include something new so they have something over their competition. The problem with this approach is that you're dragging down the value of what you do in your market. So if you're going to just include BR in all of your packages, increase your pricing. Don't sell yourself short. Make sure you're actually getting a return on your investments in your business. __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

March 21st, 2010, 10:54 PM	#36
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	When I read your post, I thought you are in a different country.. but we are both in California... It's quite different to understand who would not have a DVD player as you can buy one in Walmart or Target for $30. When you ask clients, they will always say NO to pay additional for BD. They all want it for free =) The price of everything is already down. LG BD burner is about $150 each. TDK Blank BD is about $5. BluRay players can be found for $100 these days. I bought my Syvania BluRay player from Amazon over a year ago for $150. It is already affordable and not sure why still have to wait for a few years. By offering BluRay, it makes you ahead in the market but not trailing. __________________ LA Color Pros Blog RODE Authorized Reseller . Comer LED Camera Lights . TakyBox HTML5 Menu Generator

March 21st, 2010, 11:13 PM	#38
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	Hey Steve, that's true about criagslist bride (it's a new term for me.. hehe).. that was the part I haven't factored in. Glad you like the light. Have you tried the Condenser Lens trick? It's very useful for me espeically in wedding reception =) Taky __________________ LA Color Pros Blog RODE Authorized Reseller . Comer LED Camera Lights . TakyBox HTML5 Menu Generator

March 21st, 2010, 03:55 PM	#34
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	it is just a tool, i cannot afford to spend half a day finding somebody who has a BD burner if i need one. For $250, i can afford to get one and use it as a DVD burner if needed.

March 21st, 2010, 10:45 PM	#35
Steven Arbiu Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Tarzana California Posts: 75	The main question I ask clients....... Will you pay extra for blu-ray. Almost all will say no since most don't even own a DVD player. The ones that DO want the 1080p (and most think HD is HD), I'll burn it to their hard drive at no additional charge thus eliminating the need for timely burns and blu-ray and they say, we'll wait a few years till prices come down. They DO want us to shoot in Full HD so they can have the ability to go to blu-ray in the future. Everyone knows its a waiting game. Apple had the right idea by eliminating blu-ray. At the rate we are going with bandwidth over the internet, we will be streaming HD/Blu-ray/3DBlu-ray in a few years. I'm all for not being cheap, but business is business, especially in a recession with no end in sight.

March 21st, 2010, 11:11 PM	#37
Steven Arbiu Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Tarzana California Posts: 75	If your in the upper end of the market, it's a no brainier especially if it your only business. If your competing for craigslist brides, then you have to weigh your options. Love the video light Taky. Just used it tonight for photography.

March 22nd, 2010, 01:08 AM	#39
SiuChung Leung Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 231	upgrade the wedding video..... for old customer We've been shooting in HD since 2007 but started to offer blu-ray in mid 2009. I think the blu-ray did help our business especially when you put a blu-ray case in trade show, made you stand out from other videographer. But in fact, only 5 customers really sign up for the blu-ray... Another thing we did is offer blu-ray to our previous clients since we did the wedding in HD and we save all master output in HD. Surprisingly, over 90% of our old customers interested and 70% of them get their wedding in blu-ray which more than enough to cover the cost of the investment. __________________ S.O.D.E Wedding Video(NZ): www.sode.co.nz

March 22nd, 2010, 03:53 AM	#40
Paul Mailath Trustee Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Central Coast - NSW, Australia Posts: 1,606	I use blu-ray for every wedding - not for the client but as a store for my AVCHD files. I'm moving from HDV (tape) to AVCHD (files) and I like to have a store of the original data - it used to be tapes, now its a mixture of tapes and discs and soon it will be discs only. __________________ Cheers - Paul M. www.perbenyik.com

March 22nd, 2010, 11:19 AM	#42
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	Paul, I think it might be cheaper to store your files in external HDD. For example, you can get a 1TB drive for $100. That's $0.097 per GB. Say like a blank BD is $5. That's $0.2 per GB. You can use the HDD dock or tray-less system for fast access. Trayless Removable Harddrive System \| L.A. Color Blog __________________ LA Color Pros Blog RODE Authorized Reseller . Comer LED Camera Lights . TakyBox HTML5 Menu Generator

March 22nd, 2010, 07:21 PM	#45
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	No problem, Cody. d;-) __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com