Wedding couple wants "no release" of footage...

Jawad Mir · March 16th, 2010, 08:55 AM

I think there are lot of people out there who are not comfortable with their wedding being shown to public for security or religious reasons and I honestly respect that. Heck, I didn't want same thing to happen for my wedding that's why I had a friend film it while back.

However, if the couple fails to read the fine print then I am sorry, it's their loss and there is nothing they can do about it.

David Barnett · March 16th, 2010, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alec Moreno

If I were the client, I would not hire any videographer who charged me for this.

I think he's right here. I think asking for more $$ is pretty futile. She's obviously against being shown publicly & online, yet now you're charging her more to not do it. I think a bride wouldn't understand why you're charging her more money so you don't post her footage online (I get it, but I don't think she will). Some clients probably view it that they are the talent, and should be discounted when you use their footage for marketing purposes. My guess is she'd become upset & just look elsewhere.

If you want the job or not, or want to deal with her or not might be the bigger question. Go ahead & ask, but I'd expect to be turned down on it. I could be wrong though.

Dimitris Mantalias · March 16th, 2010, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noel Lising

I admire you for this Dimitris. I don't have on-line booking but this wedding that you have turned down is a Gold mine in face to face demos. I can live without the online video for this one.

Well, Noel, I forgot to mention something. Although we were thinking about going into that wedding anyway for the reasons you mention (and you are very right on these), the bride didn't want the cameras to cover the preparation either! Now, the preparation is for us (and I think it's the same for every event videographer) a hugely important part of the overall product. It gives you beautiful imagery. So, if we said yes on this too, we would deliver a final product clearly inferior to what she may have expected (and I am afraid we'd met many more restrictions once we were there).

But, it's not that we are some kind of brutal businessmen (on the contrary). There were a couple of couples ( :) ) that didn't want us to upload their videos on the Net. We agreed to that, although we didn't have to, because sometimes keeping a client happy is more than delivering a good product. But to be honest, I don't know if we'd agree if it was an amazing wedding that we wanted to show the world.

Noel Lising · March 16th, 2010, 09:52 AM

Dimitris point taken. Nothing worst than a couple who wants to control how things are done, good call then for walking away from this one.

Chris Ficek · March 16th, 2010, 12:27 PM

Well the pendulum swings in a different way as well. We had a client request a clip of a blooper from their wedding before the edit was complete, they then placed this blooper on YouTube to laugh along with the world. We since then we have been contacted by "America's Funniest Videos", "It Only Hurts When I Laugh" and other reality clip shows for the rights to the clip...which my contract clearly states I own-but we have not released anything from our office. As a fluke it was also featured on the Ellen Degeneris show and a national news broadcast. Lets remember it was the client that placed it on YouTube-not me. Now the client is wanting to sue for big bucks because they are upset due to all the noteriety it has recieved...hmmm again we did not place it on YouTube. Seems like keeping it private might be easier in the long run if these people were concerned about it.

Travis Cossel · March 16th, 2010, 01:02 PM

I think the proper approach when these situations come up is to simply charge an extra amount for the 'right' to keep their footage private. No doubt one of the reasons this couple came to your studio was because of videos of other couples they saw on your website or blog. It's a simple fact that we must show our work to secure additional work.

So I would just explain to the couple that your business depends on the ability to show your work, but that you understand sometimes couples would prefer that their videos not be made public. In those cases you charge a fee to compensate for the lost marketing potential. We prefer to charge a flat fee instead of a percentage, because the fee is based on the marketing potential and not on the size of the package they book. Our fee to suppress the footage is $250. It's enough to discourage the people that don't really care about it, but not so much that the others feel like we're trying to gouge them.

Ultimately, though, you have to determine if this couple is going to be a hassle in other ways. Some couples just like their privacy, and some couples are just demanding every step of the way. If this couple falls into the latter category, I'd recommend passing on the job.

Dimitris Mantalias · March 16th, 2010, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Ficek

Now the client is wanting to sue for big bucks because they are upset due to all the noteriety it has recieved...hmmm again we did not place it on YouTube.

That is not so pleasant. I don't know about how law works there but I think it's common sense that they can't do anything to you, since as you said, THEY uploaded their video.

Jawad Mir · March 16th, 2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Ficek

Now the client is wanting to sue for big bucks because they are upset due to all the noteriety it has recieved...hmmm again we did not place it on YouTube.

Interesting story. Although you got out of trouble since you didn't upload it, it would have been interesting for marketing purposes if it was uploaded on your youtube channel. :)

Vito DeFilippo · March 16th, 2010, 01:59 PM

I think it's crazy to charge people extra who don't want their videos posted, and short sighted in the sense of keeping your good reputation.

First, although legally the videographer most likely holds the copyright to the images, so what? Is it really a big deal to do a client the favour and NOT use their stuff for promotion? I mean, come on, we all do so many weddings are we that desperate for promotional material?

Use other weddings for promotion, do the client a favour and get them in your good books. It can only help you for future referrals, as opposed to being the guy who wanted to gouge them (in their minds, anyway).

Travis Cossel · March 16th, 2010, 03:08 PM

Vito, it's not crazy. For us it's common sense. Showing off our work is what brings in new business. On top of that, we are constantly improving our work, so it's very important to us to constantly be showing off new stuff. If you have a website with 3-year-old samples on it, then this probably doesn't apply. But we update our website regularly. Any time we complete a project we also share it on Facebook and our blog (which is currently being redesigned and is outdated at the moment, lol) to generate activity and business.

So for us, it is an inconvenience to not be able to share our work. The client is asking us to hold back on marketing that could create new business for us. We think that should come at a cost.

You mentioned referrals, and I think that's an excellent point. If you have a couple that comes along and specifies they want their video kept private, and you just go along and do it for them ... then don't you think they will mention this to their friends as they refer them along? Now you'll potentially have more people wanting their videos kept private.

The bottom line is there is no wrong or right here .. or crazy. It just depends on what you're willing to accept as a business. For us, we feel it's important to share as much of our work as possible and keep our image fresh and updated .. so it makes sense to charge a premium or fee to anyone who wishes to restrict us on that.

Rainer Listing · March 16th, 2010, 03:17 PM

I'm on the side of the "this is crazy". You are in the business of providing a service to a client, not self promotion.

Vito DeFilippo · March 16th, 2010, 03:26 PM

You and I love to disagree sometimes, Travis, and this is one of those times. It looks like you're worried that one couple who wishes to be discreet will lead eventually to a bunch of referrals from discreet couples, and eventually you'll have nothing to show.

I don't believe it for a minute. I think you would just be looked on as a vendor who does his best to make your clients happy.

It's human nature to want to exhibit ourselves, and I find the vast majority of couples are flattered to have their stuff shown. The rare couple that asks to stay private is of so little concern, that I would never risk my referral base by charging them to keep their stuff offline.

You're right that your business model depends on regular updating and posting of your online material. I get that, and I can't argue with it. It works for you. But really, are you telling me that you are anywhere near short of material? If you charge them, you still can't use the material. So all you have is a few extra bucks, and perhaps some resentment from your client.

I shoot for a company here who does exclusively super high-end events, and one of the things he told me is that I can never post anything that I shoot for him, as his clients value their privacy. Unbelievably, he has nothing online. Nada. Zip. Yet he's completely jammed with high end contracts because his clients know they can count on him.

Travis Cossel · March 16th, 2010, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainer Listing

I'm on the side of the "this is crazy". You are in the business of providing a service to a client, not self promotion.

Promotion is one way of gaining new business. Are you saying you're in business to only serve your client and you do no promoting of your business?

Travis Cossel · March 16th, 2010, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vito DeFilippo

You and I love to disagree sometimes, Travis, and this is one of those times. It looks like you're worried that one couple who wishes to be discreet will lead eventually to a bunch of referrals from discreet couples, and eventually you'll have nothing to show.

I don't believe it for a minute. I think you would just be looked on as a vendor who does his best to make your clients happy.

It's human nature to want to exhibit ourselves, and I find the vast majority of couples are flattered to have their stuff shown. The rare couple that asks to stay private is of so little concern, that I would never risk my referral base by charging them to keep their stuff offline.

You're right that your business model depends on regular updating and posting of your online material. I get that, and I can't argue with it. It works for you. But really, are you telling me that you are anywhere near short of material? If you charge them, you still can't use the material. So all you have is a few extra bucks, and perhaps some resentment from your client.

I shoot for a company here who does exclusively super high-end events, and one of the things he told me is that I can never post anything that I shoot for him, as his clients value their privacy. Unbelievably, he has nothing online. Nada. Zip. Yet he's completely jammed with high end contracts because his clients know they can count on him.

We do tend to end up on opposite sides of a discussion sometimes. At least we disagree respectfully. d;-)

To be honest, our policy is not in place because we're afraid of getting to the point where we can't show any of our work. It is in place because the client is asking us to do something outside of our standard business practice, and we believe that in this particular case that warrants an extra fee.

The beauty of our system is that you don't have to enforce the fee if you don't want to. We use the fee to discourage anyone who isn't truly serious about keeping their footage private, but we make exceptions too. Several years ago we filmed the governor's daughter's wedding and he asked us to keep the footage private. He was specifically inviting us to film the wedding and keeping all media out of it. We ended up in a compromise where we didn't charge a fee and got to use their highlights online as well as show off the DVD's in our studio during consultations. It worked out perfectly and the results gained us new business we might not have gotten if we had just rolled over and kept everything private.

Anyone familiar with our studio knows that we go above and beyond in terms of the product we deliver and the service we provide. If you have any doubts, just check the reviews on our website. But we also believe there has to be a line to that service. We aren't going to do just anything for a client simply because they asked us too. I know of studios that will give anything and everything away to a couple for free in the name of 'customer service'. I think that hurts your image as a business in the end. People will respect your studio more if you're providing great service and charging for special requests. The studio that does anything extra for free is sending the message that the service or product isn't worth much ... in my opinion. In the end, you can always make exceptions to your policies when you feel it's the best solution.

Rainer Listing · March 16th, 2010, 04:37 PM

You pass on extra costs to your client. Not posting their footage doesn't cost you anything extra, so you don't charge extra. Keep your clients happy, it pays off. Positive word of mouth is the best promotion you can get, negative word of mouth will send you broke despite your ads.

March 16th, 2010, 08:55 AM	#16
Jawad Mir Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 371	I think there are lot of people out there who are not comfortable with their wedding being shown to public for security or religious reasons and I honestly respect that. Heck, I didn't want same thing to happen for my wedding that's why I had a friend film it while back. However, if the couple fails to read the fine print then I am sorry, it's their loss and there is nothing they can do about it. __________________ Jawad Mir / Cinematographer . Filmmaker Film Style Weddings http://www.filmstyleweddings.com Jawad Mir http://www.jawadmir.com

March 16th, 2010, 09:52 AM	#19
Noel Lising Major Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 789	Dimitris point taken. Nothing worst than a couple who wants to control how things are done, good call then for walking away from this one. __________________ Noel Lising

March 16th, 2010, 01:02 PM	#21
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	I think the proper approach when these situations come up is to simply charge an extra amount for the 'right' to keep their footage private. No doubt one of the reasons this couple came to your studio was because of videos of other couples they saw on your website or blog. It's a simple fact that we must show our work to secure additional work. So I would just explain to the couple that your business depends on the ability to show your work, but that you understand sometimes couples would prefer that their videos not be made public. In those cases you charge a fee to compensate for the lost marketing potential. We prefer to charge a flat fee instead of a percentage, because the fee is based on the marketing potential and not on the size of the package they book. Our fee to suppress the footage is $250. It's enough to discourage the people that don't really care about it, but not so much that the others feel like we're trying to gouge them. Ultimately, though, you have to determine if this couple is going to be a hassle in other ways. Some couples just like their privacy, and some couples are just demanding every step of the way. If this couple falls into the latter category, I'd recommend passing on the job. __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

March 16th, 2010, 01:59 PM	#24
Vito DeFilippo Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 1,585	I think it's crazy to charge people extra who don't want their videos posted, and short sighted in the sense of keeping your good reputation. First, although legally the videographer most likely holds the copyright to the images, so what? Is it really a big deal to do a client the favour and NOT use their stuff for promotion? I mean, come on, we all do so many weddings are we that desperate for promotional material? Use other weddings for promotion, do the client a favour and get them in your good books. It can only help you for future referrals, as opposed to being the guy who wanted to gouge them (in their minds, anyway). __________________ . http://www.nosmallroles.com

March 16th, 2010, 03:08 PM	#25
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	Vito, it's not crazy. For us it's common sense. Showing off our work is what brings in new business. On top of that, we are constantly improving our work, so it's very important to us to constantly be showing off new stuff. If you have a website with 3-year-old samples on it, then this probably doesn't apply. But we update our website regularly. Any time we complete a project we also share it on Facebook and our blog (which is currently being redesigned and is outdated at the moment, lol) to generate activity and business. So for us, it is an inconvenience to not be able to share our work. The client is asking us to hold back on marketing that could create new business for us. We think that should come at a cost. You mentioned referrals, and I think that's an excellent point. If you have a couple that comes along and specifies they want their video kept private, and you just go along and do it for them ... then don't you think they will mention this to their friends as they refer them along? Now you'll potentially have more people wanting their videos kept private. The bottom line is there is no wrong or right here .. or crazy. It just depends on what you're willing to accept as a business. For us, we feel it's important to share as much of our work as possible and keep our image fresh and updated .. so it makes sense to charge a premium or fee to anyone who wishes to restrict us on that. __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

March 16th, 2010, 12:27 PM	#20
Chris Ficek Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 113	Well the pendulum swings in a different way as well. We had a client request a clip of a blooper from their wedding before the edit was complete, they then placed this blooper on YouTube to laugh along with the world. We since then we have been contacted by "America's Funniest Videos", "It Only Hurts When I Laugh" and other reality clip shows for the rights to the clip...which my contract clearly states I own-but we have not released anything from our office. As a fluke it was also featured on the Ellen Degeneris show and a national news broadcast. Lets remember it was the client that placed it on YouTube-not me. Now the client is wanting to sue for big bucks because they are upset due to all the noteriety it has recieved...hmmm again we did not place it on YouTube. Seems like keeping it private might be easier in the long run if these people were concerned about it.

March 16th, 2010, 03:17 PM	#26
Rainer Listing Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Nowra, Australia Posts: 440	I'm on the side of the "this is crazy". You are in the business of providing a service to a client, not self promotion.

March 16th, 2010, 03:26 PM	#27
Vito DeFilippo Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 1,585	You and I love to disagree sometimes, Travis, and this is one of those times. It looks like you're worried that one couple who wishes to be discreet will lead eventually to a bunch of referrals from discreet couples, and eventually you'll have nothing to show. I don't believe it for a minute. I think you would just be looked on as a vendor who does his best to make your clients happy. It's human nature to want to exhibit ourselves, and I find the vast majority of couples are flattered to have their stuff shown. The rare couple that asks to stay private is of so little concern, that I would never risk my referral base by charging them to keep their stuff offline. You're right that your business model depends on regular updating and posting of your online material. I get that, and I can't argue with it. It works for you. But really, are you telling me that you are anywhere near short of material? If you charge them, you still can't use the material. So all you have is a few extra bucks, and perhaps some resentment from your client. I shoot for a company here who does exclusively super high-end events, and one of the things he told me is that I can never post anything that I shoot for him, as his clients value their privacy. Unbelievably, he has nothing online. Nada. Zip. Yet he's completely jammed with high end contracts because his clients know they can count on him. __________________ . http://www.nosmallroles.com

March 16th, 2010, 04:37 PM	#30
Rainer Listing Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Nowra, Australia Posts: 440	You pass on extra costs to your client. Not posting their footage doesn't cost you anything extra, so you don't charge extra. Keep your clients happy, it pays off. Positive word of mouth is the best promotion you can get, negative word of mouth will send you broke despite your ads.