What do you edit with? at DVinfo.net

Cary Garner · February 21st, 2010, 09:35 AM

What do you edit with. Why? What is the learning curve on a scale of 1-10?

Waldemar Winkler · February 21st, 2010, 04:13 PM

Final Cut Pro. About seven years ago I upgraded from iMovie to Final Cut Express, and the learning curve was quite steep. My video experience started in the 80's with linear editing systems. I didn't start using computer based editing systems until iMovie. It was, in my opinion, a digital version of linear editing that was so much easier and faster!
Final Cut Express was quite a different experience, demanding I completely rewire my brain to start thinking in a non-linear way, i.e., make a computer's file structure replace hand written log sheets, edit lists, multiple tape decks, manually operated switchers, etc.

Final Cut Express is a very light version of Final Cut Pro. They look and function the same, so the transition from FCE to FCP was easy. Learning the expanded applications of Soundtrack Pro, DVD Studio Pro, Motion, Live Type, etc., still has its stumbling blocks, mainly because I don't make use of them on as regular a basis. These applications are fully professional in their own right, which probably has a lot to do with why the Final Cut suite of applications dominates the video and film production industry.

I believe the learning curve for a person already well integrated into computer processes should be much easier than for a person not only of my generation, but the experience path I had in my career.

I can't speak for other applications as I have no experience with them. You won't be able to use FCP unless you work on a Mac.

The bottom line is what application best fits your current needs as well as what application will serve you for two or three years. If it will run on your computer platform then go. You can always upgrade, and upgrading can be a cost effective way to allow the NLE to grow with you.

Don Bloom · February 21st, 2010, 06:06 PM

Vegas Video. Went to it about 7 or 8 years ago after my old Amiga died. (great machine) anyway, went to it in version 2 been going with it since after trying a number of others. The work flow made sense to me and I didn't feel the learning curve was outrageously difficult, not to mention there were and are a number of places to get great help and the shear number of plugins available as well as the scripting ability.

Chris Harding · February 21st, 2010, 06:16 PM

Same as Don, except I started at Version 4 and have also been happy since. It has a logical workflow that makes the learning curve fairly easy.
I downloaded plenty of trial versions and Vegas was the only NLE that made sense. If I can use an NLE for basic editing without having to read a huge manual then that says something for me!!! I was appalled at the size of Adobe's CS4 Manual Pack that a buddy just bought!!! I'll certainly stay with Vegas!!

Chris

Howard Neill · February 21st, 2010, 07:09 PM

Adobe Premiere Pro2. It works for me and doesn't crash. Learning curve is hard to say. I have only known Adobe. It was 6.5, in 2003, then Pro, in 2004, then Pro2, in 2006.

.

Gregory Barringer · February 21st, 2010, 07:31 PM

Started with Vegas Movie Studio and quickly bought Vegas 4.0 Stayed with it until Vegas 8.
Got mad because of a Windows Trojan and switched to Mac Pro 8 core and FC Suite 3.
I use FCP for everything now except burning Blu-ray. For that I use Vegas DVDA running under Mac BootCamp Windows7. I install a Pioneer BD burner in the Mac Pro.
I would suggest training DVD's whichever way you go. 1-10, I would rate Vegas and FCP even around 7. Motion would be 8 or 9. Color, I haven't even tried it yet. Burning DVD and BD are fairly easy.

Nicholas de Kock · February 22nd, 2010, 07:24 AM

Sony Vegas Pro 9 32bit, Magic Bullet, Excalibur and the Logitech MX5500.

Dimitris Mantalias · February 22nd, 2010, 12:52 PM

I started with Premiere at 2006 and I still haven't changed that (being in CS4 now). It seems natural to me now and although I thought about moving to Avid, the philosophy of the two programs is so different that I should need much time to fit in. With Premiere I do my job as I wish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Bloom

Vegas Video. Went to it about 7 or 8 years ago after my old Amiga died. (great machine)

Not only were you an Amiga user but you used it for your videoediting as well? You have all my respect. Amiga is my favourite computer ever.

Louis Maddalena · February 22nd, 2010, 01:29 PM

I use final cut. I love how complex it can get but how simple it is to make simple edits. I also like how secure and safe the Mac operating system is do I never worry about anything happening to my edit system, especially since its on a network attached to the internet so I can get all kinds of media from clients (pictures / scans / various e-mails and such) with out worry about something carrying a virus over.

Darrick Vanderwier · February 22nd, 2010, 09:54 PM

Louis... I'll second that!
Same here with FCS (final cut studio 2)

Gregory Barringer · February 22nd, 2010, 10:30 PM

How many here are proficient at Motion? I find it a hard program to master.

Philip Howells · February 22nd, 2010, 10:37 PM

Started into NLE with Media Composer on dedicated Mac platform, then Premiere on PC, now Liquid on PC - can't beat its multicam feature.

Desperately awaiting successor, though it's been almost announced/promised/hinted at then delayed so many times I wonder if Avid/Pinnacle have any intention of going into that part of the market. Go one - surprise me! :)

Michael Wisniewski · February 23rd, 2010, 12:28 AM

I use Vegas personally, and Final Cut professionally. In terms of ease of use I'd rate FCP a 7 and Vegas an 8.5. Where FCP falls down for me is the amazing amount of time needed to prep the media so FCP won't choke, whereas in Vegas, it's real-usable drag & drop for most common media files. That's my main beef with FCP, I've lost too much "in the moment inspiration" whenever I have to stop and convert media files or wait for it to render.

My attitude towards each is that, FCP works best with a plan in mind, figure out what you want, then lock it in. Vegas is better if you want to try stuff out and "see if it works", it's much more fluid, flexible, and forgiving in that regard - and allows for pleasant unexpected surprises as you're using it - probably picked this up from it's days in the audio world. I have high hopes for the next version of FCS and hope it incorporates a similar approach.

In the best of all worlds, we'd have Vegas on the Mac, and FCP on the PC. But anyway you look at it, whichever NLE you get, you will find a reason to scream & tear your hair out.

Bryan Cantwell · February 23rd, 2010, 12:37 AM

I'm in the Vegas camp for when it's my choice, but professionally it's been Avid MC or Newscutter...

...And i'll take Vegas any day. It can handle any format i've thrown at it, no need to transcode, and it actually takes advantage of all the cores available on my i7 machine. So renders are faaaaaast. :) And like Michael said, if I change my mind and want to rework the entire timeline, it's not difficult at all!

Noa Put · February 23rd, 2010, 04:51 AM

Went from premiere 1,5 to cs3 but as much as I like working with it I'm getting more annoyed with it. Premiere has some serious stability issues if you trow a lot of separate files at it; I have a Sony hvrdr60 which means that at the end of a shoot I can have 300-400 different M2T files. Premiere will choke on it and crashes randomly, I only can prevent it by first combining all the files and make one big M2T file out of it, I use Womble's mgep video wizard for this.
Premiere also has memory issues meaning it leaks memory after some time of use causing weird behavior as well, again here I have to restart every half hour to solve it for a while.
It does of course have some other really great features like the way it connects to other programs but you can't be creative if it is not stable.

I have not seen it mentioned here but I have had the possibility to work with Canopus edius pro some time ago, boy, what a difference. premiere first needs to conform all videoclips which takes ages before you can see or work with your video. With Canopus you first import which goes very fast and then just drop on the timeline and your in business.
It feels much more stable then premiere and for fast editing it's hard to beat. Only it's audio features are more limited. I also like it's own HQ codec which made my HDV files feel like DV files, even when color correcting on my older pc.
Also Multicam edits were very easy to do and very stable and fast to edit.

I know that cs5 will come out maybe this year but upgrades to a higher version of premiere are very expensive in Europe, it's upgrade price from a premiere/encore combo is half the price of the Edius Pro software so i think I know what I will be asking for christmas. :)

February 21st, 2010, 09:35 AM	#1
Cary Garner New Boot Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Booneville, Arkansas Posts: 16	What do you edit with? What do you edit with. Why? What is the learning curve on a scale of 1-10?

February 21st, 2010, 04:13 PM	#2
Waldemar Winkler Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Durango, Colorado, USA Posts: 711	Final Cut Pro. About seven years ago I upgraded from iMovie to Final Cut Express, and the learning curve was quite steep. My video experience started in the 80's with linear editing systems. I didn't start using computer based editing systems until iMovie. It was, in my opinion, a digital version of linear editing that was so much easier and faster! Final Cut Express was quite a different experience, demanding I completely rewire my brain to start thinking in a non-linear way, i.e., make a computer's file structure replace hand written log sheets, edit lists, multiple tape decks, manually operated switchers, etc. Final Cut Express is a very light version of Final Cut Pro. They look and function the same, so the transition from FCE to FCP was easy. Learning the expanded applications of Soundtrack Pro, DVD Studio Pro, Motion, Live Type, etc., still has its stumbling blocks, mainly because I don't make use of them on as regular a basis. These applications are fully professional in their own right, which probably has a lot to do with why the Final Cut suite of applications dominates the video and film production industry. I believe the learning curve for a person already well integrated into computer processes should be much easier than for a person not only of my generation, but the experience path I had in my career. I can't speak for other applications as I have no experience with them. You won't be able to use FCP unless you work on a Mac. The bottom line is what application best fits your current needs as well as what application will serve you for two or three years. If it will run on your computer platform then go. You can always upgrade, and upgrading can be a cost effective way to allow the NLE to grow with you. __________________ Waldemar

February 21st, 2010, 06:06 PM	#3
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Vegas Video. Went to it about 7 or 8 years ago after my old Amiga died. (great machine) anyway, went to it in version 2 been going with it since after trying a number of others. The work flow made sense to me and I didn't feel the learning curve was outrageously difficult, not to mention there were and are a number of places to get great help and the shear number of plugins available as well as the scripting ability. __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

February 21st, 2010, 07:09 PM	#5
Howard Neill Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cape Town South Africa Posts: 47	Adobe Premiere Pro2. It works for me and doesn't crash. Learning curve is hard to say. I have only known Adobe. It was 6.5, in 2003, then Pro, in 2004, then Pro2, in 2006. . __________________ Howard http://www.mfneill.com/ - Cape Town - where two oceans meet

February 22nd, 2010, 01:29 PM	#9
Louis Maddalena Major Player Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NYC Area. Posts: 550	I use final cut. I love how complex it can get but how simple it is to make simple edits. I also like how secure and safe the Mac operating system is do I never worry about anything happening to my edit system, especially since its on a network attached to the internet so I can get all kinds of media from clients (pictures / scans / various e-mails and such) with out worry about something carrying a virus over. __________________ Red Epic available for rent, starting at $500 per day, Scarlets, and Lenses available too. rentals.maddalenamedia.com

February 21st, 2010, 06:16 PM	#4
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Same as Don, except I started at Version 4 and have also been happy since. It has a logical workflow that makes the learning curve fairly easy. I downloaded plenty of trial versions and Vegas was the only NLE that made sense. If I can use an NLE for basic editing without having to read a huge manual then that says something for me!!! I was appalled at the size of Adobe's CS4 Manual Pack that a buddy just bought!!! I'll certainly stay with Vegas!! Chris

February 21st, 2010, 07:31 PM	#6
Gregory Barringer Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Pittsburgh, PA. Posts: 57	Started with Vegas Movie Studio and quickly bought Vegas 4.0 Stayed with it until Vegas 8. Got mad because of a Windows Trojan and switched to Mac Pro 8 core and FC Suite 3. I use FCP for everything now except burning Blu-ray. For that I use Vegas DVDA running under Mac BootCamp Windows7. I install a Pioneer BD burner in the Mac Pro. I would suggest training DVD's whichever way you go. 1-10, I would rate Vegas and FCP even around 7. Motion would be 8 or 9. Color, I haven't even tried it yet. Burning DVD and BD are fairly easy.

February 22nd, 2010, 07:24 AM	#7
Nicholas de Kock Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: KLD, South Africa Posts: 983	Sony Vegas Pro 9 32bit, Magic Bullet, Excalibur and the Logitech MX5500.

February 22nd, 2010, 09:54 PM	#10
Darrick Vanderwier Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: St. Catharines Ontario Posts: 69	Louis... I'll second that! Same here with FCS (final cut studio 2)

February 22nd, 2010, 10:30 PM	#11
Gregory Barringer Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Pittsburgh, PA. Posts: 57	FCP Users How many here are proficient at Motion? I find it a hard program to master.

February 22nd, 2010, 10:37 PM	#12
Philip Howells Trustee Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 1,212	Started into NLE with Media Composer on dedicated Mac platform, then Premiere on PC, now Liquid on PC - can't beat its multicam feature. Desperately awaiting successor, though it's been almost announced/promised/hinted at then delayed so many times I wonder if Avid/Pinnacle have any intention of going into that part of the market. Go one - surprise me! :)

February 23rd, 2010, 12:28 AM	#13
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	I use Vegas personally, and Final Cut professionally. In terms of ease of use I'd rate FCP a 7 and Vegas an 8.5. Where FCP falls down for me is the amazing amount of time needed to prep the media so FCP won't choke, whereas in Vegas, it's real-usable drag & drop for most common media files. That's my main beef with FCP, I've lost too much "in the moment inspiration" whenever I have to stop and convert media files or wait for it to render. My attitude towards each is that, FCP works best with a plan in mind, figure out what you want, then lock it in. Vegas is better if you want to try stuff out and "see if it works", it's much more fluid, flexible, and forgiving in that regard - and allows for pleasant unexpected surprises as you're using it - probably picked this up from it's days in the audio world. I have high hopes for the next version of FCS and hope it incorporates a similar approach. In the best of all worlds, we'd have Vegas on the Mac, and FCP on the PC. But anyway you look at it, whichever NLE you get, you will find a reason to scream & tear your hair out. __________________ "Ultimately, the most extraordinary thing, in a frame, is a human being." - Martin Scorsese

February 23rd, 2010, 12:37 AM	#14
Bryan Cantwell Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Terre Haute, IN Posts: 277	I'm in the Vegas camp for when it's my choice, but professionally it's been Avid MC or Newscutter... ...And i'll take Vegas any day. It can handle any format i've thrown at it, no need to transcode, and it actually takes advantage of all the cores available on my i7 machine. So renders are faaaaaast. :) And like Michael said, if I change my mind and want to rework the entire timeline, it's not difficult at all!

February 23rd, 2010, 04:51 AM	#15
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Went from premiere 1,5 to cs3 but as much as I like working with it I'm getting more annoyed with it. Premiere has some serious stability issues if you trow a lot of separate files at it; I have a Sony hvrdr60 which means that at the end of a shoot I can have 300-400 different M2T files. Premiere will choke on it and crashes randomly, I only can prevent it by first combining all the files and make one big M2T file out of it, I use Womble's mgep video wizard for this. Premiere also has memory issues meaning it leaks memory after some time of use causing weird behavior as well, again here I have to restart every half hour to solve it for a while. It does of course have some other really great features like the way it connects to other programs but you can't be creative if it is not stable. I have not seen it mentioned here but I have had the possibility to work with Canopus edius pro some time ago, boy, what a difference. premiere first needs to conform all videoclips which takes ages before you can see or work with your video. With Canopus you first import which goes very fast and then just drop on the timeline and your in business. It feels much more stable then premiere and for fast editing it's hard to beat. Only it's audio features are more limited. I also like it's own HQ codec which made my HDV files feel like DV files, even when color correcting on my older pc. Also Multicam edits were very easy to do and very stable and fast to edit. I know that cs5 will come out maybe this year but upgrades to a higher version of premiere are very expensive in Europe, it's upgrade price from a premiere/encore combo is half the price of the Edius Pro software so i think I know what I will be asking for christmas. :)