Booking fees? Contract work? How do you handle it?

[Ralph Longo]

Originally Posted by Art Guglielmo

Your time alone is worth more than $400. It sounds like your a bit inexperienced, but in that case, you do a couple weddings for friends or family for "free" while you get your stuff together. Do a knockout job, then start charging properly for your work.

I agree with this completely and is how I am currently getting started. It is slow but I feel it is a sure way to do things. I just finished my last of the free weddings I am willing to do and I am offering a start up price for future weddings of 750 dollars only for this first year though (any bookings in 05) and only to get my name out there. If your editing these also, you are spending a work week (or more) on the project so there is your time that you want to get paid for and then you want to cover your expenses (Gas, tape stock, camera, editing programs for the computer, DVD's or VHS tapes, etc,etc) and get some money also for your expertise (Uncle john can't give them the same video you will be able to) and your price increases as you can see. So $400 seems very low to me also unless you don't edit at all.

[Ken Hendrickson]

Originally Posted by Art Guglielmo

Your time alone is worth more than $400. It sounds like your a bit inexperienced, but in that case, you do a couple weddings for friends or family for "free" while you get your stuff together. Do a knockout job, then start charging properly for your work.

Are you editing this piece, or pulling it out of the camera and handing it to the bride?

Well, inexperienced in doing weddings on my own. I'v ran/directed camera, soundboard and lights for my church services, concerts, weddings anything else for about 8 years so I know what I'm doing fairly well. I just decided I wanted to turn that hobby into a career.

I'll be shooting and editing everything. The only reason I'm not charging more is because I don't have all the equipment I need yet, and don't feel right charging like I do.

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Ken Hendrickson

Well, inexperienced in doing weddings on my own. I'v ran/directed camera, soundboard and lights for my church services, concerts, weddings anything else for about 8 years so I know what I'm doing fairly well. I just decided I wanted to turn that hobby into a career.

I'll be shooting and editing everything. The only reason I'm not charging more is because I don't have all the equipment I need yet, and don't feel right charging like I do.

I don't understand your statement that you're not charging more because you don't yet own all your equipment. Whether you own it, lease it, or generate cash flow to buy it in the future you still have to pay for it somehow. It's a cost of doing business and the cost of acquiring it has to be figured into your rate structure. Even if you owned it already, your fees would need to include an allowance for maintainance and eventual replacement.

If you don't own the gear you need you don't just make do with what you have and charge a discounted rate because you're not up to par with the "real pros" who own all their gear outright - you go rent whatever you need to do the job right and build the cost of the rental into your fee structure. The pros don't charge what they do because they own all their gear (although they might) - they charge what they do because they can deliver a professional grade product consistently.

[Ken Hendrickson]

Originally Posted by Steve House

I don't understand your statement that you're not charging more because you don't yet own all your equipment. Whether you own it, lease it, or generate cash flow to buy it in the future you still have to pay for it somehow. It's a cost of doing business and the cost of acquiring it has to be figured into your rate structure. Even if you owned it already, your fees would need to include an allowance for maintainance and eventual replacement.

If you don't own the gear you need you don't just make do with what you have and charge a discounted rate because you're not up to par with the "real pros" who own all their gear outright - you go rent whatever you need to do the job right and build the cost of the rental into your fee structure. The pros don't charge what they do because they own all their gear (although they might) - they charge what they do because they can deliver a professional grade product consistently.

I feel like an idiot, I've never thought about renting it before. Doh!

[Bob Costa]

Renting is a tough economic choice. I am curious what equipment you don't have yet that affects your rate decision.

[Ken Hendrickson]

Originally Posted by Bob Costa

Renting is a tough economic choice. I am curious what equipment you don't have yet that affects your rate decision.

Well, I only have one *good* camera, my GL2. My second cam is a 1 chip canon ultura, which is OK, but I can tell a big difference between the two. I also, need a better audio setup. Right now, I have an AT Pro88, which seems to be pretty flaky, sometimes it works great, and othertimes I get interference. My other mic is an iRiver. I want to atleast another GL2 before I start charging more.

[Bob Costa]

Spend some time in learning how to use your NLE to better match footage from the two cams. Maybe you just need to white balance them better?Between the iRIver and Pro-88 you get decent enough (maybe not excellent) sound, right? Your equipment is not the issue. If your abilities are there, you can easily raise rates. A Senn G2 kit costs $600. If you were charging $1000, the 50% deposit on the next job would almost cover buying that. Now if you need more experience or a demo reel or need to learn how to sell, that is another story. But keeping rates too low is a self-defeating cycle, and you will end up selling the GL2 you have instead of buying a second one.

Most wedding people do 1 or 2 free to get some demo material and practice, next 1 or 2 at $500, and then they are up to $1000 or more. If anything, your rate should be $1000, with a "special demo discount" for any weddings in July or August to get you more demo material quick. By August you should have a good demo reel in place. And by Jan next year, it should be in $1200 to $1500 range (in most cases).

HTH. Good Luck.

[Ken Hendrickson]

Originally Posted by Bob Costa

Spend some time in learning how to use your NLE to better match footage from the two cams. Maybe you just need to white balance them better?Between the iRIver and Pro-88 you get decent enough (maybe not excellent) sound, right? Your equipment is not the issue. If your abilities are there, you can easily raise rates. A Senn G2 kit costs $600. If you were charging $1000, the 50% deposit on the next job would almost cover buying that. Now if you need more experience or a demo reel or need to learn how to sell, that is another story. But keeping rates too low is a self-defeating cycle, and you will end up selling the GL2 you have instead of buying a second one.

Most wedding people do 1 or 2 free to get some demo material and practice, next 1 or 2 at $500, and then they are up to $1000 or more. If anything, your rate should be $1000, with a "special demo discount" for any weddings in July or August to get you more demo material quick. By August you should have a good demo reel in place. And by Jan next year, it should be in $1200 to $1500 range (in most cases).

HTH. Good Luck.

Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to re-evaluate my rates. I've already done one freebie, well two if you count my own wedding :o, my friend/partner shot itm and I did all the editing. My initial rates were based on a few websites I found for wedding videography in my area. I think I may have priced myself way too low.

[Art Guglielmo]

I used one "pro" camera for years, with a sony 1-chip camera for wideshots and cut-aways, and got totally got away with it. Like was previously stated, a little color correction, and it flies perfectly. Now I have 3 cameras, but that fact is never discussed with clients. Its none of their business, as they dont know the difference anyway. They hire me to tape their wedding and deliver a professional product, which I do. What equipment I have or where I get it is of no use to the client. Sometimes, some will ask "Do you use 3-chip cameras", which I do, but they dont ask that because they know what they are talking about, they do because they read it in some wedding magazine, and it tells them to ask that question.

[Ken Hendrickson]

Well, I'm deffinately not doing any more business with this guy. I met with the bride today, and apparently she isn't happy with him either. He hasnt returned any of her calls. When I talked with him today, he accused me of discrediting him to Roxanna (the bride) because she hasn't returned his calls. He also told her that he already paid me the deposit, and apparently she paid him the deposit on June 8th, and as of today I still haven't been paid yet which is unacceptable.

And now he all of the sudden wants a referral fee from the other wedding he helped book over 2 months ago.

When I told the bride today that I haven't gotten my money yet from him, she offered to do a charge back on her CC and pay directly which I might end up doing if he doesn't get me the money today. He was supposed to meet me wed, yesterday and today to pay me.

He also doesn't want me to film any more weddings for him. He wants to have his other friend video weddings, and me edit them for him.

The saga continues...

[Young Lee]

Sorry to hear that.

[Michael McGruder]

Alas,

It's a positive, Ken.. Trust all of us..

The fact that this guy was trying to orchestrate some incredibly deceitful manipulation behind the scenes only exploits the quality of the way he runs his business.. It's not for you..

The fact that he has a "friend" that is willing to do the video portion speaks volumes of his ability to leech the offers that come his way.. He's merely trying to such a dime from a penny.. Don't be troubled by this -- keep focusing on the other avenues of your marketing capability and bolster your demo reel..

You'll fare well..
Take care,
-Michael

[Ken Hendrickson]

Originally Posted by Michael McGruder

Alas,

It's a positive, Ken.. Trust all of us..

The fact that this guy was trying to orchestrate some incredibly deceitful manipulation behind the scenes only exploits the quality of the way he runs his business.. It's not for you..

The fact that he has a "friend" that is willing to do the video portion speaks volumes of his ability to leech the offers that come his way.. He's merely trying to such a dime from a penny.. Don't be troubled by this -- keep focusing on the other avenues of your marketing capability and bolster your demo reel..

You'll fare well..
Take care,
-Michael

I don't think its a bad thing. If anything, it's the swift kick in the butt I needed to start marketing more proactively.

When we were talking yesterday, he was saying that he wants his "videographer" to be shooting the wedding and reception, then hand the B&G an unedited DVD at the end of the night. I mean, thats great, but I fear the kind of video work he's going to be offering is going to be sub par. What respectfing videographer is going to work for $2-300, while the DJ takes 2-300 off the top, and that's what he wants to do, and what he tried to do with me. $200 for doing nothing but finding the client is a bit rediculous if you ask me. So far, I've met with this bride twice so far to go over the all the details. And I'll be meeting up with her one last time for the rehersal. All the DJ does is show up and play music and go home. My job doesn't end at the end of the night. I have to go home and edit everything together.

I think the B&G are gonna be expecting this great video and gonna get a single shot of the wedding. Not saying that a one camera shoot is always going to be terrible, if your talented enough, you can make a decent video with only a single cam.

The end result is he's going to be handing out crappy wedding videos to his clients, and if I'm associating with him, the word will get out that I do crappy videos to.

[Ken Hendrickson]

This keeps getting better and better. Now according to the DJ, the bride wants to cancel and she wants to hire the DJ's "friend". Time to call the bride see whats going on. When I talked with her on Friday, she was more then excited with me. I think the DJ's trying to shaft me to get his friend to do the wedding. OR she cancelled with the DJ and he just wants his money back from us.

Sorry man, I don't play like that, she signed a contract with ME, NOT the DJ for videography services, in which my contract clearly states the deposit is non-refundable. This is exactly why I want to have a seperate contracts. That is already gone back into equipment purchases.


Edit: I talked with the bride, and what I suspected is true. She said she is very unhappy with the lack of communication between her and the DJ and us and the DJ. She said she never told the DJ specificly that she didn't want us to film her wedding, that he offered to have someone else do shoot and edit her wedding (most likely to get the $200 that he wanted to jack from me).

We told her, that she won't be getting her deposit back if we don't film her wedding, as its written in the contract. She said she doesn't care who does it, as long as its good. We also told her that the DJ may still have his videographer 'friend' show up anyways, and she said she'd kick him out if he did LMAO.

Here's the funny part. When the DJ and I talked yesterday his 'friend' didn't have the ability to edit, and that he just going to be handing the B&G raw unedited footage of the night. And if they want it edited, he needs me to do it for him.

[Adam Kampia]

Whoa man!

This is tragically funny stuff. Keep the saga coming, Ken. Who needs reality TV?

Hand the bride an unedited version at the end of the night? What's she supposed to watch her (probably unlabelled) mini DV/D8/crappy Hi-8 tapes with?

Can't wait for the next chapter!