Since the bridal show...haven't had any calls

Rhett Allen · March 30th, 2005, 01:53 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Young Lee : Why can't photopraphers use a zoom lens for CU? :) -->>>

It's a little more complicated than that. That's what years of experience teach you. Just because you "can" zoom, doesn't mean you should. If someone is getting paid to do a job professionally, they should do the best job they can. If there are other professionals working in the same place they should find a way to respect each others craft. That's part of being a "Pro".
As for pricing, I think you should get paid what you can get. I know of a guy in California who gets $7500 for a wedding shoot (photography). He has had other companies complain "you can't charge that!" His reply, "watch me!" Just because one person can't justify charging that price doesn't mean that others have the right to tell them they can't. Would you rather the amateurs control the pricing? That's where it's heading with attitudes like that. I saw a wedding album once that the couple paid $10K for. It was some of the best photography I've ever seen! It' looked like a glossy ad campaign for "Guess" or something like that, you know, something a "professional" commercial photographer would do. It didn't look like a typical album at all and you could definitely see where the extra money went... TALENT.
I have heard it said from a professional wedding shooter that you should only expect to get about 50% of the clients that walk thru your door. If you get more than that, raise your price, if you get less than that, lower your prices. Of course that depends on wether you've done the marketing to get them in your door in the first place.

Kevin Shaw · March 30th, 2005, 01:54 PM

John: My gripe about photographers is that some of them use a pricing scheme which takes advantage of the customer to an extent which is ultimately pointless, and would not be tolerated for any other wedding vendor service. It's impressive that they've managed to get away with this, but I think we're seeing that start to change now.

As for people getting in each other's shots, it's unfortunate that there's an inherent conflict involved in both professions trying to do their jobs. But in most situations it shouldn't be too hard for a photographer to work around a videographer with no apparent impact on the finished pictures, whereas the quality of a video is diminished every time the photographer gets in a shot during an important moment. So it would seem that the main issue for photographers isn't whether someone is in their way, but rather that they don't like being asked to modify their shooting style for the sake of the video. If we consider what's best for the customer, photographers should be willing to back off a little, and hopefully we'll gradually see progress on that.

Kevin Shaw · March 30th, 2005, 02:18 PM

"Would you rather the amateurs control the pricing? That's where it's heading with attitudes like that."

Where we're heading is that the free market will dictate how much people are willing to pay for both photography and videography, and it appears there's currently downward pressure on prices for both services. If this forces some established professionals to lower their prices to respond to less expensive competitors, then that will indicate they aren't demonstrating enough added value to sustain current prices. It's not up to any of us where this ends up, except to offer the best quality we can and try to convince potential customers to pay a fair price to get it. If they all decide to settle for amateur work and pricing, that will either mean that the amateurs have gotten pretty good or that customers simply don't care. Either way, you can't stop the trend by griping about it; just do better work.

Jon Omiatek · March 30th, 2005, 02:29 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Kevin Shaw

Either way, you can't stop the trend by griping about it; just do better work. -->>>

I agree with doing better work. If you are always improving your craft you will see a definate increase in sales! I am definately not the best at videography but I always work on improving.

I haven't had a bride tell me she was unhappy with my work. My demo they watch at the time of the booking is the same type of work they will get after I finish their wedding. Most times, I have improved a bunch since my last demo. I redo my demo's in January and July with some of my latest work.

I would also say that many business in my area do better work, but they also charge much more for their product. Kind of like the difference between a Lexus and a Toyota, both get you to the same place. One is just a bit nicer than the other. Not only that, there a big differences between a film type wedding and a documentary style of videography. I would like to venture into a cinematic style but I need to improve on that type of shooting style before I attempt to sell it!

Sometimes, gripping about makes you feel better :) Some photographers DO NOT PLAY NICE! I always attempt to have a good relationship will all the photographers I run into.

Jon

Craig Seeman · March 30th, 2005, 10:20 PM

Well when the bride is paying $3000 for the photography and $750 for the videographer, who do you think gets to be "in the way."

BTW, I've ALWAYS had good relations with the photogs at my weddings. We usually talk about positioning and, in addition, when the relationship works well, we're eachother eyes. They'll spot me when I'm getting something good and come over to grab a still and I'll do likewise, without problem.

Alas there's still no good reason why videographer should be paid so much less.

Jon Omiatek · March 30th, 2005, 11:40 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Craig Seeman : Well when the bride is paying $3000 for the photography and $750 for the videographer, who do you think gets to be "in the way."

BTW, I've ALWAYS had good relations with the photogs at my weddings. We usually talk about positioning and, in addition, when the relationship works well, we're eachother eyes. They'll spot me when I'm getting something good and come over to grab a still and I'll do likewise, without problem.

Alas there's still no good reason why videographer should be paid so much less. -->>>

There are many companies in my area that charge 1900+ and get it on a consistant basis. I wouldn't even do a single camera wedding for $750.

Jon

March 30th, 2005, 01:53 PM	#46
Rhett Allen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 607	<<<-- Originally posted by Young Lee : Why can't photopraphers use a zoom lens for CU? :) -->>> It's a little more complicated than that. That's what years of experience teach you. Just because you "can" zoom, doesn't mean you should. If someone is getting paid to do a job professionally, they should do the best job they can. If there are other professionals working in the same place they should find a way to respect each others craft. That's part of being a "Pro". As for pricing, I think you should get paid what you can get. I know of a guy in California who gets $7500 for a wedding shoot (photography). He has had other companies complain "you can't charge that!" His reply, "watch me!" Just because one person can't justify charging that price doesn't mean that others have the right to tell them they can't. Would you rather the amateurs control the pricing? That's where it's heading with attitudes like that. I saw a wedding album once that the couple paid $10K for. It was some of the best photography I've ever seen! It' looked like a glossy ad campaign for "Guess" or something like that, you know, something a "professional" commercial photographer would do. It didn't look like a typical album at all and you could definitely see where the extra money went... TALENT. I have heard it said from a professional wedding shooter that you should only expect to get about 50% of the clients that walk thru your door. If you get more than that, raise your price, if you get less than that, lower your prices. Of course that depends on wether you've done the marketing to get them in your door in the first place.

March 30th, 2005, 01:54 PM	#47
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	John: My gripe about photographers is that some of them use a pricing scheme which takes advantage of the customer to an extent which is ultimately pointless, and would not be tolerated for any other wedding vendor service. It's impressive that they've managed to get away with this, but I think we're seeing that start to change now. As for people getting in each other's shots, it's unfortunate that there's an inherent conflict involved in both professions trying to do their jobs. But in most situations it shouldn't be too hard for a photographer to work around a videographer with no apparent impact on the finished pictures, whereas the quality of a video is diminished every time the photographer gets in a shot during an important moment. So it would seem that the main issue for photographers isn't whether someone is in their way, but rather that they don't like being asked to modify their shooting style for the sake of the video. If we consider what's best for the customer, photographers should be willing to back off a little, and hopefully we'll gradually see progress on that.

March 30th, 2005, 02:18 PM	#48
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	"Would you rather the amateurs control the pricing? That's where it's heading with attitudes like that." Where we're heading is that the free market will dictate how much people are willing to pay for both photography and videography, and it appears there's currently downward pressure on prices for both services. If this forces some established professionals to lower their prices to respond to less expensive competitors, then that will indicate they aren't demonstrating enough added value to sustain current prices. It's not up to any of us where this ends up, except to offer the best quality we can and try to convince potential customers to pay a fair price to get it. If they all decide to settle for amateur work and pricing, that will either mean that the amateurs have gotten pretty good or that customers simply don't care. Either way, you can't stop the trend by griping about it; just do better work.

March 30th, 2005, 02:29 PM	#49
Jon Omiatek Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 755	<<<-- Originally posted by Kevin Shaw Either way, you can't stop the trend by griping about it; just do better work. -->>> I agree with doing better work. If you are always improving your craft you will see a definate increase in sales! I am definately not the best at videography but I always work on improving. I haven't had a bride tell me she was unhappy with my work. My demo they watch at the time of the booking is the same type of work they will get after I finish their wedding. Most times, I have improved a bunch since my last demo. I redo my demo's in January and July with some of my latest work. I would also say that many business in my area do better work, but they also charge much more for their product. Kind of like the difference between a Lexus and a Toyota, both get you to the same place. One is just a bit nicer than the other. Not only that, there a big differences between a film type wedding and a documentary style of videography. I would like to venture into a cinematic style but I need to improve on that type of shooting style before I attempt to sell it! Sometimes, gripping about makes you feel better :) Some photographers DO NOT PLAY NICE! I always attempt to have a good relationship will all the photographers I run into. Jon

March 30th, 2005, 10:20 PM	#50
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Well when the bride is paying $3000 for the photography and $750 for the videographer, who do you think gets to be "in the way." BTW, I've ALWAYS had good relations with the photogs at my weddings. We usually talk about positioning and, in addition, when the relationship works well, we're eachother eyes. They'll spot me when I'm getting something good and come over to grab a still and I'll do likewise, without problem. Alas there's still no good reason why videographer should be paid so much less.

March 30th, 2005, 11:40 PM	#51
Jon Omiatek Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 755	<<<-- Originally posted by Craig Seeman : Well when the bride is paying $3000 for the photography and $750 for the videographer, who do you think gets to be "in the way." BTW, I've ALWAYS had good relations with the photogs at my weddings. We usually talk about positioning and, in addition, when the relationship works well, we're eachother eyes. They'll spot me when I'm getting something good and come over to grab a still and I'll do likewise, without problem. Alas there's still no good reason why videographer should be paid so much less. -->>> There are many companies in my area that charge 1900+ and get it on a consistant basis. I wouldn't even do a single camera wedding for $750. Jon