iRiver audio sample from Ceremony at DVinfo.net

Glen Elliott · February 1st, 2005, 02:19 PM

I shoot with multiple audio devices for audio redundancy.
1) Onboard mics on VX2100s
2) Onboard Senheisser ME66 on PD170
3) Wireless UWP-C1 on PD170 (wired on groom)
4) and 2 iRiver MP3 recorders with lapel mics

I usually place one iRiver on the minister/priest, and another by the soloist/harpist or on the podium to capture the audio of the readers.

The following is an example of the audio quality of an iRiver 790 with a cheap $15 Azden lapel mic.

http://home.comcast.net/~g.elliott3//iRiverCeremony.wmv

Tim Borek · February 1st, 2005, 05:23 PM

Sounds nice. Which bitrate do you use when recording MP3 on the iRiver?

I shy away from using MP3 in my videos because (pity me) I used MediaStudio Pro, which always "skips" somewhere. I don't have that problem with WAV or native DV25 audio. Can the iRiver record a mono WAV file? I'll settle for 22 kHz, 16 bit. Most clients can't hear the difference anyway.

Thanks for posting.

T.J.

Murad Toor · February 1st, 2005, 06:36 PM

Glen, thanks for the idea. This is perfect for recording voice. I'm curious about how music sounds using this method. I was thinking about using a minidisc player for that purpose, but this iRiver idea is probably way better because they're lighter and smaller.

Tim, I figure when you bring the sound files into your NLE it'd be best to first transcode them to AIFF or WAV at whatever settings your timeline usually is (most likely 16 bit 48KHz stereo). That should prevent skipping and other garbage.

Patrick Moreau · February 1st, 2005, 07:56 PM

Why the iRiver 790 Glenn?

I'm assuming you did some research on competeing models - thought you might be able to save us some time if so.

Thanks

Glen Elliott · February 1st, 2005, 08:37 PM

I forget the exact bit rate I recorded this ceremony in. I believe it was pretty high- I only needed it to last a little over an hour. I have a 795 unit also that has double the internal memory of my 256 meg 790.

Patrick, I chose the 790 and 795 due to their size and price. I use the 795 (512 meg) to capture both the ceremony (soloist/harpist) AND the reception. Sometimes I can get a direct feed from the DJ.

The only downside about the iRiver units is there's no recording meters. You don't know if your clipping or not. For that reason I set the recording volume rather conservative and normalize it in post.

Cesar Ruiz · February 2nd, 2005, 12:55 PM

Glenn,

What have you been using for volume settings?

I'm particularly interested in what you have used for the receptions.

I've used 50 for all speakers at the ceremony and 45 for any musical/singing recording.

If I remember correctly, I may have clipped a speaker at the 50 setting so I think that I may end up using 45 for podiums.

Thanks,
-C

Patrick Moreau · February 2nd, 2005, 08:04 PM

Glenn

I hve another question for you. I noticed your post about the minimum equipment needed. You mentioned you had the glidecam 4000.

I'm wondering why the 4000 over the 2000? I thought the specs of the 2000 could handle the pd170 or vx? Is it smoother with the heavier model?

I was also wondering if you got a quick release mount for it (if there is one) and how quickly you can mount and balance it while working?

Thanks a lot, trying to decide if I should go that route.

Glen Elliott · February 2nd, 2005, 08:46 PM

Added weight to the 170. W/A lense adapter, Wireless Reciever, Sony 10/20 light, NP 960 battery, and Q/R plate.

It's best to pre balance it as close as you can before starting the day that way there are only tweaks that need to be done while mounting it on site. It's a great tool but a gigantic learning curve. I haven't felt comfortable in the 2 years I've owned it until recently.

Glen Elliott · February 2nd, 2005, 08:48 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Cesar Ruiz : Glenn,

What have you been using for volume settings?

I'm particularly interested in what you have used for the receptions.

I've used 50 for all speakers at the ceremony and 45 for any musical/singing recording.

If I remember correctly, I may have clipped a speaker at the 50 setting so I think that I may end up using 45 for podiums.

Thanks,
-C -->>>

Mine might even be lower- I believe, if I remember correctly, around 43. That way when the priest peaks his voice I won't clip. I can always bring it up in post- but once it's clipped it's gone. Similar to exposure...it's always better to under-expose a little rather than over-expose..

Peter Jefferson · February 3rd, 2005, 10:11 AM

interesting way to get a nice blend of audio, one problem though is that we;re not always given the luxury to mic up a priest... which is pretty unfortunate. Alot of priests here are still in teh stone age, while others are very defensive about their own PA systems and some even refuse to allow us to mic the groom.

one thing, if people have these issues outlined above, scope out the PA system and mixing desk. If there is a record out it will give u a flat signal irrespective of how the actual EQ's have been set up on the mixer.

good call glen, im actually using a MyJoy mp3 player recorder straight onto sd card and using its line input. on a 1gb card, i get about 9 hours in stereo 256kbps.
Looking at gettng a microdrive unit with 4 or 20gb...

Kelvin Kelm · February 3rd, 2005, 09:19 PM

Glen, how did you upload the audio to your computer? From reading on the iriver website, the 1.25 firmware allows high bitrate recording, but there is no way to upload the files to your computer - the iriver interface software doesn't support uploading. There is a firmware upgrade version 1.28 that allows the unit to be recognized as a harddrive by WinXP which allows you to upload files, but the recording bitrate is limited to 96kbs.

Looks like there are some trade-offs. Oh-well - I ordered a couple of them to tryout. 96kbs should be fine for voice, but not that great for music.

Glen Elliott · February 3rd, 2005, 10:18 PM

Kelvin, I'm not quite sure what your talking about. You simply connect the iRiver device to your computer and pull the audio files off the unit. They are first recorded in a proprietary format- but the software converts them to MP3s.

It's capable of recording in much higher than 96kbs. I'm not sure where your getting your info from or if we are talking about the same unit. The audio in the clip was from an iRiver 790.

Jack Smith · February 6th, 2005, 11:21 PM

Tim , I rather like mediastudio pro. So no pity.
As Glen said the iriver records a file propritary file and converts to mp3 after uploading to the computer.MSP likes all audios to match the projects template and can either be converted in MSP or an editor like Soundforge.You shouldnt have any problem if you match the audios

February 1st, 2005, 02:19 PM	#1
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	iRiver audio sample from Ceremony I shoot with multiple audio devices for audio redundancy. 1) Onboard mics on VX2100s 2) Onboard Senheisser ME66 on PD170 3) Wireless UWP-C1 on PD170 (wired on groom) 4) and 2 iRiver MP3 recorders with lapel mics I usually place one iRiver on the minister/priest, and another by the soloist/harpist or on the podium to capture the audio of the readers. The following is an example of the audio quality of an iRiver 790 with a cheap $15 Azden lapel mic. http://home.comcast.net/~g.elliott3//iRiverCeremony.wmv

February 1st, 2005, 05:23 PM	#2
Tim Borek Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Westfield, IN Posts: 353	What bitrate? Sounds nice. Which bitrate do you use when recording MP3 on the iRiver? I shy away from using MP3 in my videos because (pity me) I used MediaStudio Pro, which always "skips" somewhere. I don't have that problem with WAV or native DV25 audio. Can the iRiver record a mono WAV file? I'll settle for 22 kHz, 16 bit. Most clients can't hear the difference anyway. Thanks for posting. T.J.

February 2nd, 2005, 12:55 PM	#6
Cesar Ruiz Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Manchester, NH Posts: 182	Glenn, What have you been using for volume settings? I'm particularly interested in what you have used for the receptions. I've used 50 for all speakers at the ceremony and 45 for any musical/singing recording. If I remember correctly, I may have clipped a speaker at the 50 setting so I think that I may end up using 45 for podiums. Thanks, -C __________________ Cana Video Productions, LLC Manchester, NH

February 1st, 2005, 06:36 PM	#3
Murad Toor Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 125	Glen, thanks for the idea. This is perfect for recording voice. I'm curious about how music sounds using this method. I was thinking about using a minidisc player for that purpose, but this iRiver idea is probably way better because they're lighter and smaller. Tim, I figure when you bring the sound files into your NLE it'd be best to first transcode them to AIFF or WAV at whatever settings your timeline usually is (most likely 16 bit 48KHz stereo). That should prevent skipping and other garbage.

February 1st, 2005, 07:56 PM	#4
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	Why the iRiver 790 Glenn? I'm assuming you did some research on competeing models - thought you might be able to save us some time if so. Thanks

February 1st, 2005, 08:37 PM	#5
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	I forget the exact bit rate I recorded this ceremony in. I believe it was pretty high- I only needed it to last a little over an hour. I have a 795 unit also that has double the internal memory of my 256 meg 790. Patrick, I chose the 790 and 795 due to their size and price. I use the 795 (512 meg) to capture both the ceremony (soloist/harpist) AND the reception. Sometimes I can get a direct feed from the DJ. The only downside about the iRiver units is there's no recording meters. You don't know if your clipping or not. For that reason I set the recording volume rather conservative and normalize it in post.

February 2nd, 2005, 08:04 PM	#7
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	Glenn I hve another question for you. I noticed your post about the minimum equipment needed. You mentioned you had the glidecam 4000. I'm wondering why the 4000 over the 2000? I thought the specs of the 2000 could handle the pd170 or vx? Is it smoother with the heavier model? I was also wondering if you got a quick release mount for it (if there is one) and how quickly you can mount and balance it while working? Thanks a lot, trying to decide if I should go that route.

February 2nd, 2005, 08:46 PM	#8
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Added weight to the 170. W/A lense adapter, Wireless Reciever, Sony 10/20 light, NP 960 battery, and Q/R plate. It's best to pre balance it as close as you can before starting the day that way there are only tweaks that need to be done while mounting it on site. It's a great tool but a gigantic learning curve. I haven't felt comfortable in the 2 years I've owned it until recently.

February 2nd, 2005, 08:48 PM	#9
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	<<<-- Originally posted by Cesar Ruiz : Glenn, What have you been using for volume settings? I'm particularly interested in what you have used for the receptions. I've used 50 for all speakers at the ceremony and 45 for any musical/singing recording. If I remember correctly, I may have clipped a speaker at the 50 setting so I think that I may end up using 45 for podiums. Thanks, -C -->>> Mine might even be lower- I believe, if I remember correctly, around 43. That way when the priest peaks his voice I won't clip. I can always bring it up in post- but once it's clipped it's gone. Similar to exposure...it's always better to under-expose a little rather than over-expose..

February 3rd, 2005, 10:11 AM	#10
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	interesting way to get a nice blend of audio, one problem though is that we;re not always given the luxury to mic up a priest... which is pretty unfortunate. Alot of priests here are still in teh stone age, while others are very defensive about their own PA systems and some even refuse to allow us to mic the groom. one thing, if people have these issues outlined above, scope out the PA system and mixing desk. If there is a record out it will give u a flat signal irrespective of how the actual EQ's have been set up on the mixer. good call glen, im actually using a MyJoy mp3 player recorder straight onto sd card and using its line input. on a 1gb card, i get about 9 hours in stereo 256kbps. Looking at gettng a microdrive unit with 4 or 20gb...

February 3rd, 2005, 09:19 PM	#11
Kelvin Kelm Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 49	Glen, how did you upload the audio to your computer? From reading on the iriver website, the 1.25 firmware allows high bitrate recording, but there is no way to upload the files to your computer - the iriver interface software doesn't support uploading. There is a firmware upgrade version 1.28 that allows the unit to be recognized as a harddrive by WinXP which allows you to upload files, but the recording bitrate is limited to 96kbs. Looks like there are some trade-offs. Oh-well - I ordered a couple of them to tryout. 96kbs should be fine for voice, but not that great for music.

February 3rd, 2005, 10:18 PM	#12
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Kelvin, I'm not quite sure what your talking about. You simply connect the iRiver device to your computer and pull the audio files off the unit. They are first recorded in a proprietary format- but the software converts them to MP3s. It's capable of recording in much higher than 96kbs. I'm not sure where your getting your info from or if we are talking about the same unit. The audio in the clip was from an iRiver 790.

February 6th, 2005, 11:21 PM	#13
Jack Smith Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ontario Posts: 445	Tim , I rather like mediastudio pro. So no pity. As Glen said the iriver records a file propritary file and converts to mp3 after uploading to the computer.MSP likes all audios to match the projects template and can either be converted in MSP or an editor like Soundforge.You shouldnt have any problem if you match the audios