Beginner charging for weddings!

Tom Hardwick · August 26th, 2009, 07:03 AM

99% of the time you use crossfades? You mean lapdissolves? In 2009? In a real time run 'n' gun situation you find bits you can edit in camera?

Yes it's a business and yes you want to make $70/hr, but forgive me - I don't think you're paying attention. But then again 20 hours tops including the wedding day itself just shows I don't know your market.

tom.

Richard Wakefield · August 26th, 2009, 07:21 AM

with Tom on that.
Chris - each to their own of course, and i'm glad it works for you, but it just kinda sounds wrong (i.e. no creative passion?)

p.s. 99% of the time you use crossfades?!?!?! for me, it's about 0.99% :)

Tom Hardwick · August 26th, 2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Wakefield

p.s. 99% of the time you use crossfades?!?!?! for me, it's about 0.99% :)

Well said. If you can't resolve; dissolve.

Jeff Kellam · August 26th, 2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferlon Webster

Hello everyone,

...I'm just curious of what to charge. ... My idea for a base price was $850 but I really have no idea of what to charge. I don't want to get caught up and never get out of low pricing and I don't want to charge too much to cheat myself out of a job. Any advice would be greatly appreciated and thank you all in advance!

Ferlon:

Based on the fact you are trying to make things happen for your new business, and this gig is 10 months away, you most likely will have shot at least a few weddings by June of 2010. Be confident and don't sell yourself short.

With that said, $850 as a base price sounds okay to low, but markets seem to vary pretty wildly with marketing determining the price as much as the product. No one is ever going to make any type of a living or even build an equipment base at the $850 price point.

Also, you have to take the advice from the other posters on minimum gear required.

Jeff Kellam · August 26th, 2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

99% of the time you use crossfades? You mean lapdissolves? In 2009? In a real time run 'n' gun situation you find bits you can edit in camera?

tom.

Tom:

Is a crossfade different from a lap dissolve?

Lap dissolve
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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A lap dissolve (sometimes called a cross-fade, mix or simply a dissolve) is a technical term in film editing, most often used in the United States, applying to the process whereby the fading last shot of a preceding scene is superimposed over the emerging first shot (fade in) of the next scene, so that, for a few moments, both shots are seen simultaneously. Generally, but not always, the use of a dissolve is held to indicate that a period of time has passed between the two scenes.

Im confused.

Adam Gold · August 26th, 2009, 02:35 PM

Don't be confused; they are the same.

Jim Snow · August 26th, 2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferlon Webster

I also have a t1i for back up video,

The t1i is limited to 20fps in HD which is just not usable for video work - - that you intend to charge money for that is. I don't know why Canon pulls that kind of stuff. I guess they are trying to maneuver people into buying the Mark II 5D (for a lot more money) for those who want to shoot "real" video.

Chris Harding · August 26th, 2009, 05:22 PM

Hi Richard

Sorry, I was being WAY to "generic" !! I obviously use a lot of cuts but I was purely making the point that I don't use fancy transitions and effects in my market. People in my market tend to shy away from the cinematic fade to black or flash white. I try to stay away from silly transitions with little red hearts floating up the page like some do but I do try and give my brides an accurate account of what the day was about. I actually offer brides a cinematic style as well but most, if not all, will opt for documentary

I really cannot see the point of using stuff like Magic Bullet to create colour shifts away from the norm but then again whatever your market looks for you need to supply. I guess the market I am servicing are not "culture vultures" and if I did warm the footage up with a MB preset they would probably say "Why is the colour funny???"

We try to service our own particular market the way the client wants the video, not us!!

Chris

Chris Harding · August 26th, 2009, 05:51 PM

Hi Guys

I had better explain what I meant by "crossfades" Sony Vegas creates events for any clip you drop into the timeline and if you slice them up they all become more events.

Dragging a clip into another causes the software to create a "crossfade" with a time period. Two events with a cross fade of say 4 frames is essentially a cut. Only if you drag it say, 3 seconds into the other clip it would then become a lap dissolve!! So my 99% of crossfades means that most are simple cuts from one action to another and very few would actually be dragged enough to become one frame dissolving into another which, of course, is used very sparingly!!!!

Sorry for the terminology confusion but every single event I use in Vegas is crossfaded with the next but it's purely a cut from one action to the next.

Chris

Philip Howells · August 27th, 2009, 01:50 AM

Given the big variety in experience included in this thread it's really good to see some unanimity in praise of "simplicity", "cuts" and "dissolves/crossfades/lap dissolves" and a disdain for floating hearts etc. It shows considerable wisdom and good taste.

Tom, I know cuts into movement and "ignoring" time period changes are trendy but I'm old school and like Jeff said use dissolves or fade to black etc or the occasional wipe to make that easy to understand.

Having said all that I do admit to using tricksy dissolves in promos and stuff for our wedding fair programmes (we run two HD screens mounted one above the other showing short looped programmes from WD players) and sometimes use a Magic Bullet or Vitascene effects to grab the attention but for the clients' programmes it's rare I use anything other than just cuts - as someone once said, "just like real TV!"

Anish Sharma · August 27th, 2009, 03:14 AM

IMO..the starting rate is ok..bit on the low scale but very good rate for a starter. I did my first wedding for 300 dollers and that was 15-20 hours of footage (full blown indian wedding) using a cheapo sd camera. The problem you face is that there are lots of 'kid's out there with HD cameras who would easily compete with you for price. What iam hoping they will not be able to compete with is the quality.

Best way to move forward in this field is create a style and content that is you and people who like what you do, they will gladly pay for the package.

Philip Howells · August 27th, 2009, 03:35 AM

I think perhaps this belongs to another thread but I think the last line has a lot of sense for all of us. Anish makes a good point.

Because of our backgrond we know how to do proper interviews ie not video booth and include them as a feature of all our programmes. It's the one consistent "selling" element and couple always declare it to be the clinch factor when choosing us.

The downside to Anish's recommendation is that there's always the danger that our programmes become formulaic - but making them not so is part of the fun.

Jason Robinson · August 27th, 2009, 06:33 PM

My route..... I did two for free. Then 2 for $300. Then one for $500. Then two for $600. Then a few for $900 and then the rest for $1,100. That covers all 6 years of my business. I didn't charge above $1k until Nov 07, which was my 4th year in business.

Grow your prices as your experience grows. I also spent all the income for every year except this year, to pay for gear. I never borrowed money, but I did rent gear the first 4 years. So I'm debt free (for now.... until I buy a 150 or ex1)

I was not confident charging a lot until I knew I was worth it (and when I could absolutely blow away everyone else's videos in the valley except Travis C. here).

Aaron Jones · August 28th, 2009, 05:51 AM

To start with - don't forget the basics! Listen to the guys here for their opinions on equipment (and I do mean listen). Film a few weddings for free (contact your local church/registry office - they will pass on your offer to any willing brides with zero budget). Your first wedding on your own will be the worst, full of mistakes and nerves. It is only then you can start to hone your skills. 10-20 weddings will be what it takes to get things right.

Every client has their own particular taste as every wedding video has their own style (be it generic/dynamic/cheesey). The key thing will be to know who you are marketing your product to.

For example:
Client 1 will consider any grading, time lapse editing, or editor creativity to not be a their reflection of their day.
Client 2 will love all these creative choices as it makes their DVD stand out from all the others.
Client 3 loves page wipes, floating hearts, and slllloooooooow motion - client 3 should have their head re-examined (IMHO).

So when you think to the future and build your style, you still have to keep a carefull mind on your target audience.

Susanto Widjaja · August 28th, 2009, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Jones

To start with - don't forget the basics! Listen to the guys here for their opinions on equipment (and I do mean listen). Film a few weddings for free (contact your local church/registry office - they will pass on your offer to any willing brides with zero budget). Your first wedding on your own will be the worst, full of mistakes and nerves. It is only then you can start to hone your skills. 10-20 weddings will be what it takes to get things right.

Every client has their own particular taste as every wedding video has their own style (be it generic/dynamic/cheesey). The key thing will be to know who you are marketing your product to.

For example:
Client 1 will consider any grading, time lapse editing, or editor creativity to not be a their reflection of their day.
Client 2 will love all these creative choices as it makes their DVD stand out from all the others.
Client 3 loves page wipes, floating hearts, and slllloooooooow motion - client 3 should have their head re-examined (IMHO).

So when you think to the future and build your style, you still have to keep a carefull mind on your target audience.

you forgot client 4: this one don't know which category they are in, but they know for sure they want discount!

:P

btw, i shot 20+ weddings but I still can't get it right the way i want it every time. I think it takes more than that to be really comfortable of shooting a wedding. you cook 20 pancakes then you will surely get it right, but not weddings...

Santo

August 26th, 2009, 07:03 AM	#16
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	99% of the time you use crossfades? You mean lapdissolves? In 2009? In a real time run 'n' gun situation you find bits you can edit in camera? Yes it's a business and yes you want to make $70/hr, but forgive me - I don't think you're paying attention. But then again 20 hours tops including the wedding day itself just shows I don't know your market. tom.

August 26th, 2009, 07:21 AM	#17
Richard Wakefield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Surrey, UK Posts: 680	with Tom on that. Chris - each to their own of course, and i'm glad it works for you, but it just kinda sounds wrong (i.e. no creative passion?) p.s. 99% of the time you use crossfades?!?!?! for me, it's about 0.99% :)

August 26th, 2009, 02:35 PM	#21
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Don't be confused; they are the same.

August 26th, 2009, 05:22 PM	#23
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Hi Richard Sorry, I was being WAY to "generic" !! I obviously use a lot of cuts but I was purely making the point that I don't use fancy transitions and effects in my market. People in my market tend to shy away from the cinematic fade to black or flash white. I try to stay away from silly transitions with little red hearts floating up the page like some do but I do try and give my brides an accurate account of what the day was about. I actually offer brides a cinematic style as well but most, if not all, will opt for documentary I really cannot see the point of using stuff like Magic Bullet to create colour shifts away from the norm but then again whatever your market looks for you need to supply. I guess the market I am servicing are not "culture vultures" and if I did warm the footage up with a MB preset they would probably say "Why is the colour funny???" We try to service our own particular market the way the client wants the video, not us!! Chris

August 26th, 2009, 05:51 PM	#24
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Hi Guys I had better explain what I meant by "crossfades" Sony Vegas creates events for any clip you drop into the timeline and if you slice them up they all become more events. Dragging a clip into another causes the software to create a "crossfade" with a time period. Two events with a cross fade of say 4 frames is essentially a cut. Only if you drag it say, 3 seconds into the other clip it would then become a lap dissolve!! So my 99% of crossfades means that most are simple cuts from one action to another and very few would actually be dragged enough to become one frame dissolving into another which, of course, is used very sparingly!!!! Sorry for the terminology confusion but every single event I use in Vegas is crossfaded with the next but it's purely a cut from one action to the next. Chris

August 27th, 2009, 01:50 AM	#25
Philip Howells Trustee Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 1,212	Given the big variety in experience included in this thread it's really good to see some unanimity in praise of "simplicity", "cuts" and "dissolves/crossfades/lap dissolves" and a disdain for floating hearts etc. It shows considerable wisdom and good taste. Tom, I know cuts into movement and "ignoring" time period changes are trendy but I'm old school and like Jeff said use dissolves or fade to black etc or the occasional wipe to make that easy to understand. Having said all that I do admit to using tricksy dissolves in promos and stuff for our wedding fair programmes (we run two HD screens mounted one above the other showing short looped programmes from WD players) and sometimes use a Magic Bullet or Vitascene effects to grab the attention but for the clients' programmes it's rare I use anything other than just cuts - as someone once said, "just like real TV!"

August 27th, 2009, 03:14 AM	#26
Anish Sharma Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: NZ Posts: 38	IMO..the starting rate is ok..bit on the low scale but very good rate for a starter. I did my first wedding for 300 dollers and that was 15-20 hours of footage (full blown indian wedding) using a cheapo sd camera. The problem you face is that there are lots of 'kid's out there with HD cameras who would easily compete with you for price. What iam hoping they will not be able to compete with is the quality. Best way to move forward in this field is create a style and content that is you and people who like what you do, they will gladly pay for the package.

August 27th, 2009, 03:35 AM	#27
Philip Howells Trustee Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 1,212	I think perhaps this belongs to another thread but I think the last line has a lot of sense for all of us. Anish makes a good point. Because of our backgrond we know how to do proper interviews ie not video booth and include them as a feature of all our programmes. It's the one consistent "selling" element and couple always declare it to be the clinch factor when choosing us. The downside to Anish's recommendation is that there's always the danger that our programmes become formulaic - but making them not so is part of the fun.

August 27th, 2009, 06:33 PM	#28
Jason Robinson Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 1,997	My route..... I did two for free. Then 2 for $300. Then one for $500. Then two for $600. Then a few for $900 and then the rest for $1,100. That covers all 6 years of my business. I didn't charge above $1k until Nov 07, which was my 4th year in business. Grow your prices as your experience grows. I also spent all the income for every year except this year, to pay for gear. I never borrowed money, but I did rent gear the first 4 years. So I'm debt free (for now.... until I buy a 150 or ex1) I was not confident charging a lot until I knew I was worth it (and when I could absolutely blow away everyone else's videos in the valley except Travis C. here).

August 28th, 2009, 05:51 AM	#29
Aaron Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 88	To start with - don't forget the basics! Listen to the guys here for their opinions on equipment (and I do mean listen). Film a few weddings for free (contact your local church/registry office - they will pass on your offer to any willing brides with zero budget). Your first wedding on your own will be the worst, full of mistakes and nerves. It is only then you can start to hone your skills. 10-20 weddings will be what it takes to get things right. Every client has their own particular taste as every wedding video has their own style (be it generic/dynamic/cheesey). The key thing will be to know who you are marketing your product to. For example: Client 1 will consider any grading, time lapse editing, or editor creativity to not be a their reflection of their day. Client 2 will love all these creative choices as it makes their DVD stand out from all the others. Client 3 loves page wipes, floating hearts, and slllloooooooow motion - client 3 should have their head re-examined (IMHO). So when you think to the future and build your style, you still have to keep a carefull mind on your target audience.