Cinevate Brevis 35mm *VS* Canon 5D MK II at DVinfo.net

Charles Baisden · July 9th, 2009, 09:59 PM

Hey guys --

We have a question that we can't seem to resolve here in the studio. The setup: we own two Canon XH-A1 cameras. We also own the Canon 5D MK II. Given a choice between the following, which would you buy:

a) An additional Canon 5D MK II
b) A Cinevate Brevis 35mm Adapter PLUS a Canon 70-200mm 2.8L IS

For the money, they are almost even.

What we're debating: will the Canon XH-A1 be able to generate the quality that we want even with the Brevis? In our experience, we're seeing quality coming out of the 5D that just blows the XH-A1 away. We love the depth of field.

BUT -- you can improve the DOF with the Brevis adapter. And that way your not shooting with this ridiculous camera that has no "during shot" controls. I mean, let's face it...the 5D is amazing, but it has serious manual control limitations, and you absolutely cannot make essential adjustments to your shot DURING the shot.

So what do you think?
~ Charles

Darren Smith · July 9th, 2009, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Baisden

Hey guys --

And that way your not shooting with this ridiculous camera that has no "during shot" controls. I mean, let's face it...the 5D is amazing, but it has serious manual control limitations, and you absolutely cannot make essential adjustments to your shot DURING the shot.

What adjustments are you referring to out of interest?

Chris Barcellos · July 10th, 2009, 12:03 AM

First of all with Firmware revision 1.10, you have full manual control of aperature, shutter, and ISO. Period. You can adjust any of those while rolling.

Magic Lantern 0.1.5 is "piggy back" mod type of software that adds things like zebaras, audio gains, to allow great incamera recording.

So if you haven't updated, you need to do so.

Susanto Widjaja · July 10th, 2009, 05:19 AM

I bought letus before the 5dmkII and I wished I'd just gone straight to the canon.

Although to debate it further, I can do a nice 2-camera interview now with my letus and 5dmarkII with my letus as the main angle and 5d as the "DOF crazy" profile CU shot

my letus + xh-a1 would give me nice audio with no hassle whatsoever and I can cut nicely with the 5d.

Given your situation, I think I'd still get another 5D.. who doesn't like 2 OSS shots during vows with the same DOF?

the xh-a1 can just serve as a steadicam camera....

Santo

Charles Baisden · July 10th, 2009, 11:34 AM

Hey Chris!

This sounds like its something I need to know a lot more about! Help me out...are you referring to the 5D MK II?

If so, that's crazy! I need to know how to do this. Right now, we cannot even set manual controls BEFORE we start rolling.

Are you sure we're talking about the same thing?
~ Charles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

First of all with Firmware revision 1.10, you have full manual control of aperature, shutter, and ISO. Period. You can adjust any of those while rolling.

Magic Lantern 0.1.5 is "piggy back" mod type of software that adds things like zebaras, audio gains, to allow great incamera recording.

So if you haven't updated, you need to do so.

Charles Baisden · July 10th, 2009, 11:35 AM

Thanks Santo! I think this is kinda what my wife was leaning towards. Perfect answer!

~ Charles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susanto Widjaja

I bought letus before the 5dmkII and I wished I'd just gone straight to the canon.

Given your situation, I think I'd still get another 5D.. who doesn't like 2 OSS shots during vows with the same DOF?

the xh-a1 can just serve as a steadicam camera....

Santo

John Stakes · July 10th, 2009, 12:24 PM

truthfully the only reason to get a DOF adapter is to get shallow DOF, right? So being that you already have a nice camcorder, and that you are happy with the results from the MkII, then you might as well get another MKII. And it's compact ; ). And get that firmware update!

I'm getting a second rig soon...still researching though!

JS

Chris Barcellos · July 10th, 2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Baisden

Hey Chris!

This sounds like its something I need to know a lot more about! Help me out...are you referring to the 5D MK II?

If so, that's crazy! I need to know how to do this. Right now, we cannot even set manual controls BEFORE we start rolling.

Are you sure we're talking about the same thing?
~ Charles

Yes. Canon released firm ware upgrade around June 1, 2009. Read and follow link to get the lastest version from Chris Hurd's link in first post. This official upgrade allows you to lock ISO, shutter speed, and aperature. Make sure you camera is set on manual, and in live view to movie still mode, and that under that, you have selected "Movie", rather than exposure simulation.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos...able-link.html

And you should also be following Magic Lantern:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos...5-release.html

This is a "piggy back " system that overlay the in non-detructive process, on the Official 1.10 firmware. It has been written buy Trammel Hudson, a 5D user, giving us control over audio, and adding lens readouts, and zebras. It is buggy, as you would expect any beta version of software to be, but opens up the usability of this camera for all of us.

I actually think Trammels early development discussion of the software in March, April and May forced Canon into releasing the upgrade that gave us full control in 1.10.

Brian Valente · July 10th, 2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

I actually think Trammels early development discussion of the software in March, April and May forced Canon into releasing the upgrade that gave us full control in 1.10.

actually it was a few big Hollywood productions and some other prominent folks "suggesting" these features a long before Trammell's project (nothing against Magic Lantern - we all know it's awesome).

35mm adapter vs. MKII both still have their pros and cons. The MKII is great for DOF and lowlight, but still lacks the controls and production-quality codec you see in a video camera. It's really two paths to the same result, each with their pros and cons. As previously mentioned we've seen lots of folks intercutting a MKII and Redrock Encore setup and it cuts quite nicely.

Hope that helps

Cheers

Brian

Chris Barcellos · July 10th, 2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Valente

actually it was a few big Hollywood productions and some other prominent folks "suggesting" these features a long before Trammell's project (nothing against Magic Lantern - we all know it's awesome).

Brian

I agree that pressure came from a lot of directions, but it seems that at a point where Trammel Hudson posted his first screen shots and videos of changes he had been able affect in the 1.07 firmware, Canon announced within days its intention to post new firmware for the camera. Not so sure we would have seen this at this point, without that impetus. In fact official position of Canon up until that point was that it does not add features to it products by firmware upgrade. I personally recieved such a statement from Canon up an inquiry I made. But whatever the impetus, I am thankful for the change of attitude, and for the the additional benefits Magic Lantern is giving us.

Also, I am not sure what is meant by lack of production quality codec. Using the right tool like Cineforms NeoScene, and employing good exposure and camera handling processes, from my point of view, it out shoots any HDV camera, and can hold it own with the likes of the EX3 in terms of image quality, and stomps it in terms of depth of field control.

Brian Valente · July 10th, 2009, 03:18 PM

Without getting into behind-the-scenes stuff, really it was elsewhere. Trammell talking about releasing it would imho actually relieve the pressure for canon to do this. My personal opinion is that other than various projects interested in this capability, everyone was buying nikon lenses with mechanical apertures instead of Canon EF lenses. Once they figured that out it was only a matter of time.

B

Charles Baisden · July 14th, 2009, 01:15 AM

Thanks again Chris!!! I updated that firmware...and presto! Manual controls. Now why the f&%$ didn't they just release the camera with that in place? What a weird choice from Canon.

Quick question though -- we had a very new (and very upsetting) problem this weekend when we were shooting footage with the 5D MK II. At various points, the live view mode would lock-up. There would be this weird looking indicator along the right hand side of the screen (looked like a vertical battery life indicator). The camera would become completely non-responsive to all buttons. Even turning the camera off did nothing. When you turned the camera off, it would just blink "busy" on the top screen, and remain locked on the last scene in live view mode. Only pulling the batteries out would turn the camera off.

The problem is that is wouldn't write the current shot to the CF card. So if we were on a long take of something, we'd lose the shot (due to having to take the batteries out).

Any one else having this issue?
~ Charles

Susanto Widjaja · July 14th, 2009, 06:38 AM

maybe its your cf card that is too slow?

Brian Valente · July 14th, 2009, 07:33 AM

Yeah - my guess is that the "blinking light" is the camera writing to the CF card, especially if you were using a slow CF card and long takes. Best cure is to get a really fast UDMA CF card

If you gave it some time, it probably would have eventually finished up.

Charles Baisden · July 15th, 2009, 12:15 AM

I definitely think that sounds like a possibility. We've started off using our same old CF cards that we've always used for photography. I wouldn't have suspected this was causing the problem, but it certainly could be a factor.

I don't think that is the entire answer though because the camera locked up immediately once as soon as we started recording.

But I'll try the CF card & see what happens.
~ Charles

July 9th, 2009, 09:59 PM	#1
Charles Baisden Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 94	*Cinevate Brevis 35mm VS* Canon 5D MK II** Hey guys -- We have a question that we can't seem to resolve here in the studio. The setup: we own two Canon XH-A1 cameras. We also own the Canon 5D MK II. Given a choice between the following, which would you buy: a) An additional Canon 5D MK II b) A Cinevate Brevis 35mm Adapter PLUS a Canon 70-200mm 2.8L IS For the money, they are almost even. What we're debating: will the Canon XH-A1 be able to generate the quality that we want even with the Brevis? In our experience, we're seeing quality coming out of the 5D that just blows the XH-A1 away. We love the depth of field. BUT -- you can improve the DOF with the Brevis adapter. And that way your not shooting with this ridiculous camera that has no "during shot" controls. I mean, let's face it...the 5D is amazing, but it has serious manual control limitations, and you absolutely cannot make essential adjustments to your shot DURING the shot. So what do you think? ~ Charles __________________ charles baisden \| paper pusher & owner http://www.fusionphotovideo.com

July 10th, 2009, 12:03 AM	#3
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	First of all with Firmware revision 1.10, you have full manual control of aperature, shutter, and ISO. Period. You can adjust any of those while rolling. Magic Lantern 0.1.5 is "piggy back" mod type of software that adds things like zebaras, audio gains, to allow great incamera recording. So if you haven't updated, you need to do so. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

July 10th, 2009, 05:19 AM	#4
Susanto Widjaja Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 622	I bought letus before the 5dmkII and I wished I'd just gone straight to the canon. Although to debate it further, I can do a nice 2-camera interview now with my letus and 5dmarkII with my letus as the main angle and 5d as the "DOF crazy" profile CU shot my letus + xh-a1 would give me nice audio with no hassle whatsoever and I can cut nicely with the 5d. Given your situation, I think I'd still get another 5D.. who doesn't like 2 OSS shots during vows with the same DOF? the xh-a1 can just serve as a steadicam camera.... Santo __________________ If a picture is worth a thousand words, what about motion picture? website: www.papercranes.com.au \| blog: www.weddingvideosydney.net

July 10th, 2009, 03:18 PM	#11
Brian Valente Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 293	Without getting into behind-the-scenes stuff, really it was elsewhere. Trammell talking about releasing it would imho actually relieve the pressure for canon to do this. My personal opinion is that other than various projects interested in this capability, everyone was buying nikon lenses with mechanical apertures instead of Canon EF lenses. Once they figured that out it was only a matter of time. B __________________ ========================== Brian Valente Redrock Microsystems

July 14th, 2009, 01:15 AM	#12
Charles Baisden Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 94	Thanks again Chris!!! I updated that firmware...and presto! Manual controls. Now why the f&%$ didn't they just release the camera with that in place? What a weird choice from Canon. Quick question though -- we had a very new (and very upsetting) problem this weekend when we were shooting footage with the 5D MK II. At various points, the live view mode would lock-up. There would be this weird looking indicator along the right hand side of the screen (looked like a vertical battery life indicator). The camera would become completely non-responsive to all buttons. Even turning the camera off did nothing. When you turned the camera off, it would just blink "busy" on the top screen, and remain locked on the last scene in live view mode. Only pulling the batteries out would turn the camera off. The problem is that is wouldn't write the current shot to the CF card. So if we were on a long take of something, we'd lose the shot (due to having to take the batteries out). Any one else having this issue? ~ Charles __________________ charles baisden \| paper pusher & owner http://www.fusionphotovideo.com

July 10th, 2009, 12:24 PM	#7
John Stakes Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 558	truthfully the only reason to get a DOF adapter is to get shallow DOF, right? So being that you already have a nice camcorder, and that you are happy with the results from the MkII, then you might as well get another MKII. And it's compact ; ). And get that firmware update! I'm getting a second rig soon...still researching though! JS

July 14th, 2009, 06:38 AM	#13
Susanto Widjaja Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 622	maybe its your cf card that is too slow? __________________ If a picture is worth a thousand words, what about motion picture? website: www.papercranes.com.au \| blog: www.weddingvideosydney.net

July 14th, 2009, 07:33 AM	#14
Brian Valente Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 293	Yeah - my guess is that the "blinking light" is the camera writing to the CF card, especially if you were using a slow CF card and long takes. Best cure is to get a really fast UDMA CF card If you gave it some time, it probably would have eventually finished up. __________________ ========================== Brian Valente Redrock Microsystems

July 15th, 2009, 12:15 AM	#15
Charles Baisden Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 94	I definitely think that sounds like a possibility. We've started off using our same old CF cards that we've always used for photography. I wouldn't have suspected this was causing the problem, but it certainly could be a factor. I don't think that is the entire answer though because the camera locked up immediately once as soon as we started recording. But I'll try the CF card & see what happens. ~ Charles __________________ charles baisden \| paper pusher & owner http://www.fusionphotovideo.com