5d only weddings???

Yang Wen · July 3rd, 2009, 09:39 AM

Would it be considered a 5D wedding if you shoot the entire wedding with a 5D with exceptions to the ceremony and toasts? Those two are the only two impossibles with the 5D2 due to the recording length.. You can however intercut 5D footage with long form footage from a camcorder so you'll be covered. However I think this is pretty difficult to pull off with one person.

Noa Put · July 3rd, 2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Snow

There is always a tendency with something new to get over excited and overuse a new tool.

Exactly, same for glidecam, looks great if you see that floating movement but if used for a complete photoshoot f.i. it feels like being on a boat during a storm, you feel the adrenaline in the beginning but end up hanging over the edge feeling sick :). I would never sell my xh-a1 just to be able to shoot with the 5d. My xh-a1 is much more versatile then a 5d, the last one is still a PHOTOcamera.
It does serve it's purpose very well if you would combine it with tripod, crane, glidecam, glidetrack shots and if you would include a real VIDEOcamera as well.

Oleg Kalyan · July 3rd, 2009, 10:57 AM

Just recently did entire preparation part with 5d mk2, great thing, mostly shot with 24mm lens, part of it 85mm for portraits.
will show soon

Ryan Morey · July 3rd, 2009, 04:24 PM

Well I've used my 5d for almost all of the bridal prep and formal stuff.I always use my A1 for the ceremony and reception (toasts,dances,etc.) The 5d is great for the reception if you have an off camera light source.Keep in mind guys.....I'm in the process of phasing out video and concentrating on fusion only stuff.That's the only reason I'd ever think of loosing to A1.For a fusion wedding you don't need the entire ceremony or the entire toast.It can be smaller clips mixed with stills.The audio can always be recorded on my little yamaha feild unit and a lav.That way you can always lay some stills in the vid and still run the full audio.That's just what I'm going for.It might not be every brides cup of tea but then again I don't want to do this for every bride that walk through my door.As you allll know there is a lot more set up time when shooting video then just stills,so fusion isn't always possible.That's why I've been charging out the waazooo for it and making sure there is plenty of extra time to set up everything (camera b,audio,lightning,etc.)

Ryan:)

Bruce Patterson · July 11th, 2009, 12:10 AM

After having worked with the 5D since October of 2008, I've been wanting to use it more exclusively. Now we're at about 90% 5D all day only using our EX1 when the ceremony is in a darker church. For outdoor ceremonies we shoot 100% 5D.

Keeping the bride etc in focus during the processional is the biggest challenge of the 5D imo when you're shooting in a darker church. Because you can't have the aperture at something like f7 or f11, the people in the processional will go in and out of focus = pita.

We've found no issue with the 12 minute limit though during the ceremony or speeches. If you've shot weddings before, you can pretty much anticipate when the next major part of the service is going to happen, so you just need to remember to start/stop quickly - no big deal at all. For speeches, I find it rare that anyone speaks anywhere near 12 minutes, so no big deal there either.

We use 16gb cards which get you about an hour of footage.

No need to be afraid of using the 5D more and more on a shoot though - it truly has changed the way we film and the product we can deliver to our clients.

Ryan Morey · July 13th, 2009, 10:03 AM

Hey Bruce,

Thanks for the confidence booster:) My next video wedding is the 14th of August so I'm going to try and use the 5d as camera A and just set up an A1 for cut away shots just in case I miss something.I am sooooo not afraid to push things to the edge.I do it and I'm sure I'll pull it off.Thanks again for the info....you guys rock!

Ryan

Oh....almost forgot to ask.What are you guys using for your steadi shots? Flyer...Pilot...merlin? Just curious.I'm meeting up with a buddy of mine this week to practice with our pilots and was wondering what your setup is. Thanks again!

Kevin Duffey · July 13th, 2009, 11:39 AM

Man.. how do you guys afford all these great cameras and gear!! The prices are out of reach for someone trying to start up on their own. It's a darn catch 22... I need at least one good camera, if not two to cover a wedding.. yet I can't even afford one. I am looking more and more at the business loan thing, but with so many videographers in the Sacramento area, I am fearful that there would be little return on my investment.. especially just starting out. I am hoping I can find someone to learn from on a few shoots.

I like that Raymond wedding video. The bride got him a brand new MKII. WOW! I wish I had 1/10 that kind of money to get my wife a gift like that lol. The camera on the cart was awesome! Is that a learned creativity? Maybe I should stick to software... don't know where I am going to think up things like that.

So in a different thread, I had asked about showing up to a wedding shoot with a couple XR500's... if that would look bad.. and the majority of answers were "yes..". How do you show up to shoot a video with a still camera? I know it's the MK2 and does great video.. but don't people ask any of you how you're going to shoot the wedding video with a still camera? I would think doing weddings with pure still cameras that most people don't realize can shoot great HD video, would have many asking/wondering about how professional you are and all that? If you guys can show up with MK2s, can't I show up with a couple XR500s, possibly with hoods if they have them?

Matthew Craggs · July 13th, 2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Duffey

I am looking more and more at the business loan thing, but with so many videographers in the Sacramento area, I am fearful that there would be little return on my investment..

That is why it is essential to do a business plan before you borrow money from the bank, your credit card, family, or anywhere. Forcing yourself to write one up will cause you to look at every aspect of the business and determine rather or not it is worth the investment in time and money. Rather you decide to go for it, or that is is unfeasible, the business plan will have done it's job.

I certainly relate to how expensive this line of work can be. It isn't cheap. I guess the biggest barrier to entry for wedding videography is either a big set of you-know-what's or a very well paying day job.

Ryan Morey · July 13th, 2009, 01:10 PM

Kevin,

It took me a while to get my hands on good quality still equipment when I first started shooting weddings.I was in the position to buy all this video equipment last year because I had built the still end of the biz up over several years and knew I would be able to book the hell out of videography packages since there isn't all that much competition here locally on the east coast.I wouldn't recommend a business loan.Just work with what you have and slowly build your arsenal.I see sooooo many video guys show up with ONE hv20 and a little pocket recorder for audio.It's all in post.If it looks great on DVD people won't care what you shot it with.Get a good demo reel together and charge accordingly.All this equipment is great but it's a lot of crap to set up.I'm just learning the basics still but then again I'm getting out of the videography game (tooo much work).I'll leave you some stuff in my will....lol

Ryan

Kevin Duffey · July 13th, 2009, 01:34 PM

Lol Ryan.. nice. So why are you getting out of videography? Do you not like to shoot video.. or too much to carry around.. too chaotic to shoot weddings?

Honestly if I could do it, I'd rather go into editing of the videos over having to be there to shoot weddings. I would love to get in to shooting commercials, short films, etc.. the wedding video shooting seems pretty crazy. I am just trying to find ways to make money in this crappy economy with what I know and/or can (or think I can) learn.

I see some people here starting up, and others getting out. Do us starters not know that videography is dying or something? lol. It still amazes me how much money pay for flowers and crap at a wedding for that one day, but then often balk at the idea of paying a grand or two to video tape it, not even realizing how much work goes into it. I think most, including myself when I turned down doing a video 12 years ago, thought.. that's a lot of money for someone to stand there and video. The post is where the long hours go (usually) and time is money. I realize that now. The trick I think is selling your craft in such a way that they buy in to knowing that it's a lot of work besides just shooting video. Mind you..that is to sell to those that wouldn't otherwise consider it.

Dave Blackhurst · July 13th, 2009, 03:33 PM

Kevin -
If you're confident and have product to show, you can shoot with whatever camera you've got - the proof is in the pudding as they say. That's not to say that a cam with poor performance isn't going to drive you crazy - that's why we discuss equipment as much as we do around here - we are trying to push the boundaries of the equipment, as well as our skills.

You crack me up with the "stand there and video" line - maybe some cheap-o guys stick the cam on a tripod and press record (where's that photo of the HC3 with the lampshade when it needs to be reposted!?!?), but I'm constantly moving, adjusting my remote cameras along the way, and being VERY mobile is a part of how I shoot.

Not that for the ceremony I don't have locked off cameras on tripods for cutaway or specific angles I know I need for how I edit, but the ability to move and go to the action is the one thing I realized was needed for a dynamic end product - it's a healthy workout, done right!

I think you're perhaps missing something about the coming wave of "fusion/convergence" between Photo and Video - the cameras are coming together, albeit from slightly different directions, and the multimedia production/edit for a "big screen" (i.e. huge plasma or LCD display, but hopefully still looks OK on an old 13" CRT) is what separates the cheap-o from the new breed of WV/event shooting.

Personally I'm more trying to document the day in an entertaining way, but so many here are producing "mini-movies" of such depth and emotional content that they transcend the couple and the producer - they are simply captivating content, and it's ultimately content that matters, NOT the hardware it's shot with! Are old family photos shot with a brownie any less of value because they were not shot with a 100Mpixel panoramic camera?).

IMO it's not "too" hard to produce a wedding video that resonates with the couple and their family, after all, they are the "stars", and so are interested... some of the samples shown here could be shown on TV and captivate ANYONE watching, and most are of a high production quality that would at least capture some members of an audience that doesn't know the "stars", and are drawn into the story.

Good images, whether moving or still, come from the eye, skill, and talents of the artist, not from the hardware, though proper hardware can certainly make the artist's job easier and the results more compelling. I shoot "technically", and get good shots, but my wife shoots from instinct, and more often gets the "great" shots... despite not being as much the gearhead. Unfortunately you can't "buy" that special component anywhere... sigh.

Ryan Morey · July 13th, 2009, 03:42 PM

Kevin,

I'm getting out because it's just to much work for what people are willing to pay.I get at least 3-4k for shooting stills and people don't even blink.As soon as they word video comes up people usually wince and say "aaahhh we're not really looking for video".People really love the fusion thing and they are willing to pay the my $1595 price tag for the add on.I'm only going to do one a month so I have a life and don't spend my days and nights on the computer living in FCP render land.I have 58 still weddings this year so family time is already being affected.Besides I can edit an entire still wedding in about 3 hours......video..sheeesh,forget about it:)

Ryan

Matt Barwick · July 13th, 2009, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

Kevin -
If you're confident and have product to show, you can shoot with whatever camera you've got - the proof is in the pudding as they say. That's not to say that a cam with poor performance isn't going to drive you crazy - that's why we discuss equipment as much as we do around here - we are trying to push the boundaries of the equipment, as well as our skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

Are old family photos shot with a brownie any less of value because they were not shot with a 100Mpixel panoramic camera?).

Good images, whether moving or still, come from the eye, skill, and talents of the artist, not from the hardware, though proper hardware can certainly make the artist's job easier and the results more compelling.

Dave - That's some fantastic, solid advice right there. :)

I think it's very easy to get caught up in the 'keeping up with the Jones' mentality in regards to equipment, whereas the truth is the majority of producers already have all the gear they need for effective, compelling storytelling.

Ron Dawson recently made an excellent post regarding content vs. quality:

http://bladeronner.com/?p=584

Cheers,

Matt.

Patrick Moreau · July 13th, 2009, 06:30 PM

we use the zoom H4ns for audio and that makes a huge difference. if your audio is constant throughout, i don't mind the 12-14 min recording limit and having to restart the clip. i think it depend on your style though - if your doing a documentary type edit i would think it might be more hassle than its worth in trying to nail focus and having to sync things up and make sure the 30.00 syncs with the 29.97 of other cams but if your doing something more cinematic you can afford ot have the cam stop here and there.

we love the MKII and the issues with it and quite minor compared to the benefits BUT that also goes in conjunction with our style and business model.

P.

Kevin Duffey · July 13th, 2009, 06:50 PM

What is this "fusion" thing you guys speak of? Is that where you take a MKII and do a lot of stills, and some video as part of the overall 1 man package? If so, when do you know to take stills and when to shoot video with your camera?

July 3rd, 2009, 04:24 PM	#19
Ryan Morey Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Wildwood Crest, NJ Posts: 140	Well I've used my 5d for almost all of the bridal prep and formal stuff.I always use my A1 for the ceremony and reception (toasts,dances,etc.) The 5d is great for the reception if you have an off camera light source.Keep in mind guys.....I'm in the process of phasing out video and concentrating on fusion only stuff.That's the only reason I'd ever think of loosing to A1.For a fusion wedding you don't need the entire ceremony or the entire toast.It can be smaller clips mixed with stills.The audio can always be recorded on my little yamaha feild unit and a lav.That way you can always lay some stills in the vid and still run the full audio.That's just what I'm going for.It might not be every brides cup of tea but then again I don't want to do this for every bride that walk through my door.As you allll know there is a lot more set up time when shooting video then just stills,so fusion isn't always possible.That's why I've been charging out the waazooo for it and making sure there is plenty of extra time to set up everything (camera b,audio,lightning,etc.) Ryan:) __________________ www.rhmphotography.com What you talkin bout Willis?

July 11th, 2009, 12:10 AM	#20
Bruce Patterson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 115	After having worked with the 5D since October of 2008, I've been wanting to use it more exclusively. Now we're at about 90% 5D all day only using our EX1 when the ceremony is in a darker church. For outdoor ceremonies we shoot 100% 5D. Keeping the bride etc in focus during the processional is the biggest challenge of the 5D imo when you're shooting in a darker church. Because you can't have the aperture at something like f7 or f11, the people in the processional will go in and out of focus = pita. We've found no issue with the 12 minute limit though during the ceremony or speeches. If you've shot weddings before, you can pretty much anticipate when the next major part of the service is going to happen, so you just need to remember to start/stop quickly - no big deal at all. For speeches, I find it rare that anyone speaks anywhere near 12 minutes, so no big deal there either. We use 16gb cards which get you about an hour of footage. No need to be afraid of using the 5D more and more on a shoot though - it truly has changed the way we film and the product we can deliver to our clients. __________________ Bruce Patterson- Cloud Nine Creative Inc. www.cloudninecreative.com www.wedluxe.com www.reframecollective.com

July 13th, 2009, 10:03 AM	#21
Ryan Morey Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Wildwood Crest, NJ Posts: 140	Hey Bruce, Thanks for the confidence booster:) My next video wedding is the 14th of August so I'm going to try and use the 5d as camera A and just set up an A1 for cut away shots just in case I miss something.I am sooooo not afraid to push things to the edge.I do it and I'm sure I'll pull it off.Thanks again for the info....you guys rock! Ryan Oh....almost forgot to ask.What are you guys using for your steadi shots? Flyer...Pilot...merlin? Just curious.I'm meeting up with a buddy of mine this week to practice with our pilots and was wondering what your setup is. Thanks again! __________________ www.rhmphotography.com What you talkin bout Willis?

July 13th, 2009, 01:10 PM	#24
Ryan Morey Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Wildwood Crest, NJ Posts: 140	Kevin, It took me a while to get my hands on good quality still equipment when I first started shooting weddings.I was in the position to buy all this video equipment last year because I had built the still end of the biz up over several years and knew I would be able to book the hell out of videography packages since there isn't all that much competition here locally on the east coast.I wouldn't recommend a business loan.Just work with what you have and slowly build your arsenal.I see sooooo many video guys show up with ONE hv20 and a little pocket recorder for audio.It's all in post.If it looks great on DVD people won't care what you shot it with.Get a good demo reel together and charge accordingly.All this equipment is great but it's a lot of crap to set up.I'm just learning the basics still but then again I'm getting out of the videography game (tooo much work).I'll leave you some stuff in my will....lol Ryan __________________ www.rhmphotography.com What you talkin bout Willis?

July 13th, 2009, 03:42 PM	#27
Ryan Morey Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Wildwood Crest, NJ Posts: 140	Kevin, I'm getting out because it's just to much work for what people are willing to pay.I get at least 3-4k for shooting stills and people don't even blink.As soon as they word video comes up people usually wince and say "aaahhh we're not really looking for video".People really love the fusion thing and they are willing to pay the my $1595 price tag for the add on.I'm only going to do one a month so I have a life and don't spend my days and nights on the computer living in FCP render land.I have 58 still weddings this year so family time is already being affected.Besides I can edit an entire still wedding in about 3 hours......video..sheeesh,forget about it:) Ryan __________________ www.rhmphotography.com What you talkin bout Willis?

July 3rd, 2009, 09:39 AM	#16
Yang Wen Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 991	Would it be considered a 5D wedding if you shoot the entire wedding with a 5D with exceptions to the ceremony and toasts? Those two are the only two impossibles with the 5D2 due to the recording length.. You can however intercut 5D footage with long form footage from a camcorder so you'll be covered. However I think this is pretty difficult to pull off with one person.

July 3rd, 2009, 10:57 AM	#18
Oleg Kalyan Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: MOSCOW Posts: 860	Just recently did entire preparation part with 5d mk2, great thing, mostly shot with 24mm lens, part of it 85mm for portraits. will show soon

July 13th, 2009, 11:39 AM	#22
Kevin Duffey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California Posts: 206	Man.. how do you guys afford all these great cameras and gear!! The prices are out of reach for someone trying to start up on their own. It's a darn catch 22... I need at least one good camera, if not two to cover a wedding.. yet I can't even afford one. I am looking more and more at the business loan thing, but with so many videographers in the Sacramento area, I am fearful that there would be little return on my investment.. especially just starting out. I am hoping I can find someone to learn from on a few shoots. I like that Raymond wedding video. The bride got him a brand new MKII. WOW! I wish I had 1/10 that kind of money to get my wife a gift like that lol. The camera on the cart was awesome! Is that a learned creativity? Maybe I should stick to software... don't know where I am going to think up things like that. So in a different thread, I had asked about showing up to a wedding shoot with a couple XR500's... if that would look bad.. and the majority of answers were "yes..". How do you show up to shoot a video with a still camera? I know it's the MK2 and does great video.. but don't people ask any of you how you're going to shoot the wedding video with a still camera? I would think doing weddings with pure still cameras that most people don't realize can shoot great HD video, would have many asking/wondering about how professional you are and all that? If you guys can show up with MK2s, can't I show up with a couple XR500s, possibly with hoods if they have them?

July 13th, 2009, 01:34 PM	#25
Kevin Duffey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California Posts: 206	Lol Ryan.. nice. So why are you getting out of videography? Do you not like to shoot video.. or too much to carry around.. too chaotic to shoot weddings? Honestly if I could do it, I'd rather go into editing of the videos over having to be there to shoot weddings. I would love to get in to shooting commercials, short films, etc.. the wedding video shooting seems pretty crazy. I am just trying to find ways to make money in this crappy economy with what I know and/or can (or think I can) learn. I see some people here starting up, and others getting out. Do us starters not know that videography is dying or something? lol. It still amazes me how much money pay for flowers and crap at a wedding for that one day, but then often balk at the idea of paying a grand or two to video tape it, not even realizing how much work goes into it. I think most, including myself when I turned down doing a video 12 years ago, thought.. that's a lot of money for someone to stand there and video. The post is where the long hours go (usually) and time is money. I realize that now. The trick I think is selling your craft in such a way that they buy in to knowing that it's a lot of work besides just shooting video. Mind you..that is to sell to those that wouldn't otherwise consider it.

July 13th, 2009, 03:33 PM	#26
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Kevin - If you're confident and have product to show, you can shoot with whatever camera you've got - the proof is in the pudding as they say. That's not to say that a cam with poor performance isn't going to drive you crazy - that's why we discuss equipment as much as we do around here - we are trying to push the boundaries of the equipment, as well as our skills. You crack me up with the "stand there and video" line - maybe some cheap-o guys stick the cam on a tripod and press record (where's that photo of the HC3 with the lampshade when it needs to be reposted!?!?), but I'm constantly moving, adjusting my remote cameras along the way, and being VERY mobile is a part of how I shoot. Not that for the ceremony I don't have locked off cameras on tripods for cutaway or specific angles I know I need for how I edit, but the ability to move and go to the action is the one thing I realized was needed for a dynamic end product - it's a healthy workout, done right! I think you're perhaps missing something about the coming wave of "fusion/convergence" between Photo and Video - the cameras are coming together, albeit from slightly different directions, and the multimedia production/edit for a "big screen" (i.e. huge plasma or LCD display, but hopefully still looks OK on an old 13" CRT) is what separates the cheap-o from the new breed of WV/event shooting. Personally I'm more trying to document the day in an entertaining way, but so many here are producing "mini-movies" of such depth and emotional content that they transcend the couple and the producer - they are simply captivating content, and it's ultimately content that matters, NOT the hardware it's shot with! Are old family photos shot with a brownie any less of value because they were not shot with a 100Mpixel panoramic camera?). IMO it's not "too" hard to produce a wedding video that resonates with the couple and their family, after all, they are the "stars", and so are interested... some of the samples shown here could be shown on TV and captivate ANYONE watching, and most are of a high production quality that would at least capture some members of an audience that doesn't know the "stars", and are drawn into the story. Good images, whether moving or still, come from the eye, skill, and talents of the artist, not from the hardware, though proper hardware can certainly make the artist's job easier and the results more compelling. I shoot "technically", and get good shots, but my wife shoots from instinct, and more often gets the "great" shots... despite not being as much the gearhead. Unfortunately you can't "buy" that special component anywhere... sigh.

July 13th, 2009, 06:30 PM	#29
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	we use the zoom H4ns for audio and that makes a huge difference. if your audio is constant throughout, i don't mind the 12-14 min recording limit and having to restart the clip. i think it depend on your style though - if your doing a documentary type edit i would think it might be more hassle than its worth in trying to nail focus and having to sync things up and make sure the 30.00 syncs with the 29.97 of other cams but if your doing something more cinematic you can afford ot have the cam stop here and there. we love the MKII and the issues with it and quite minor compared to the benefits BUT that also goes in conjunction with our style and business model. P. __________________ site // www.stillmotion.ca blog // www.stillmotionblog.com edu // www.stillmotionexperience.com

July 13th, 2009, 06:50 PM	#30
Kevin Duffey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California Posts: 206	What is this "fusion" thing you guys speak of? Is that where you take a MKII and do a lot of stills, and some video as part of the overall 1 man package? If so, when do you know to take stills and when to shoot video with your camera?