Working With Photographers

David Schuurman · June 6th, 2009, 10:52 PM

Photographers can be a brazen bunch.

check out this angle from my rear cam recently...I would never even imagine doing this as a videographer...Maybe with a steadicam but I'd never get that close!

http://davidschuurman.com/photog.mov

lol, was a really nice photographer to work with though otherwise.

Juan Todoli · June 7th, 2009, 01:04 AM

This kind of lack of professional respect deserves a good stumble.

Mark Ganglfinger · June 8th, 2009, 10:14 AM

I see stuff like that quite a bit around here.
I only hope that when the customer sees the photographer all over the video, then they won't be as likely to recommend them.

Kevin Shaw · June 8th, 2009, 11:58 AM

When I first started doing wedding videos I would often get frustrated with photographers, but I've gradually learned the following:

(1) Don't let it get to you - nothing will be improved by getting upset when a photographer blocks your shot or gives you attitude. If something annoying happens, take a deep breathe and stay focused on doing your job.

(2) Do your best to be nice to photographers, and most of the time they'll be nice to you. The ones who aren't, that's their problem.

(3) Learn to anticipate the most common situations where a photographer may end up in your shot, and figure out ways to avoid them or work around it. Multiple cameras and an extra tall tripod can help a lot at wedding ceremonies, and being able to move around as needed at the reception is essential. When appropriate, be prepared to get in next to the photographer to get your shot.

(4) It's tough for photographers to stay out of view even when they're trying to be conscientious, so cut 'em some slack unless they're obviously being rude.

(5) If you do everything you can to shoot around photographers and they still end up getting in key shots to an extent you can't edit out, just leave that in the video and chances are the couple won't mind - or if the photographer is really out of line they'll notice and pass the word to their friends.

Michael Ojjeh · July 15th, 2009, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Ojjeh

I do have another clip just like that one but different photographer, it must be me, I think I look invisible to photographers they just can't see me.

Well, I found this clip that was shot in Dec, 2005, and it was part of the B&G DVD deleted scenes.

Can you find the photographer? Part II

Aaron Mayberry · July 15th, 2009, 09:51 PM

LOL, awesome clip.

*excuse me*

Kevin Duffey · July 15th, 2009, 10:15 PM

OMG that is hilarious! Wow.. I think if I was the videographer I would have told the couple that I can't get any footage to work with due to their much more expensive photographer constantly getting in my way. That is just beyond unprofessional.. that guy, and the other one too had no care of professionalism in them.

Michael Ojjeh · July 16th, 2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Duffey

That is just beyond unprofessional.. that guy, and the other one too had no care of professionalism in them.

No, they just want to take their shots at any cost with no consideration to others.

I would love one day to jump in front of a photog just before he/she take the snap and start shooting my video just to make them see how it feels to be ignored and blocked deliberately, But I know that I can't do it beacuse the professionalism in me.

Again I worked with many great photographers before, but sometimes you get the bad, the good, and the ugly.

Anthony J. Howe · July 17th, 2009, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Schuurman

check out this angle from my rear cam recently...I would never even imagine doing this as a videographer...Maybe with a steadicam but I'd never get that close!

This has to be one of the best hilarious video clip I have seen, awesome.

Warren Kawamoto · July 17th, 2009, 05:04 PM

According to some photographers I've talked to, they work very hard to set up a shot, get the lighting and poses just perfect, run back and forth to fix the bride's dress, and make sure everyone looks perfect from head to toe. While all this is going on, the videographer patiently waits on the side, not doing anything. Then, suddenly he turns on his camera and "steals" the shot, then waits again for the next freebie.

Galen Rath · July 17th, 2009, 05:31 PM

A lot can be said about this, but a few comments: 1) The photographer's work needs to be respected and not infringed upon. 2) The videographer can always ask the photographer if it is okay to film these set up shots 3) The photographer can request the videographer not to film the set up shots at all, or just indirectly, to just film the overall scene of the shots being taken, as part of the general show 4) In any case, it would be poor form for the videographer to release the video of the set up shots before the photographer does his presentation and selling of his shots, and 5) Since the wedding party is paying the photographer and the videographer, they deserve as much as possible of what they are paying for, and that needs to be remembered by everyone, and they could be included on the decision of what happens at their wedding.

Travis Cossel · July 17th, 2009, 06:03 PM

Galen, I have to disagree with you on a few things.

I don't see any need for a videographer to ask a photographer if he can film any set-up shots. I also don't agree that the photographer has the right to disallow the videographer from filming the set-up shots. My wife is a photographer so I'm not speaking from a completely biased position. The notion that the photographer has a higher priority or authority is ludicrous in my opinion, as is any notion that his 'posing' is somehow copyrighted.

I also completely disagree that it's poor form for the videographer to release footage of any set-up shots before the photographer releases the shots. We're talking about two completely different mediums here, and again, the photographer's poses aren't copyrighted or anything.

Something to keep in mind here is that photographers already have the upper hand because they are generally in control of how the photoshoot goes. So while they do have to come up with poses and get everything just right, they also have the advantage of being in control of setting up those poses. Most videographers don't get any input on poses that would work better for video, and that's our disadvantage.

In my case, whether I'm working with my wife or not, I make sure to work WITH the photographer and I have the couple pose and perform some interactions that will be more useful to me for the video. Oftentimes this creates great opportunities for the photographer. I would never ask the photographer not to photograph those opportunities, or not to post his shots of those opportunities until I had the DVD done.

Galen Rath · July 17th, 2009, 07:10 PM

Thanks, Travis for the counter. If I were a photographer, I would agree with you 100%.

Michael Ojjeh · July 17th, 2009, 07:11 PM

Galen, I totally disagree with you.

Videographers has the right to shoot the entire day with out any permission from the photographer. (unless the B&G don't want some shots in the video).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galen Rath

ASince the wedding party is paying the photographer and the videographer, they deserve as much as possible of what they are paying for,

That's right, that's why videographers and photographers have to document almost the whole day for the B&G, that's what they pay us for. isn't ?

Warren Kawamoto · July 17th, 2009, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Ojjeh

Videographers has the right to shoot the entire day with out any permission from the photographer.

Believe it or not, here in Hawaii, there are well known photographers that has the couples sign a contract that specifically states that no videographers are allowed during their photo shoot. Their reasoning, besides having the video guys "steal" their poses they set up, is that the people being photographed get distracted by the extra cameras and often don't look at the right camera. Also, the videographer slows down the photoshoot and gets in the way when the photographer is trying to work as quickly as possible on a tight schedule.

Our work-around these guys is to start earlier and do a separate video session. Honestly, this works out great because we can direct the couple to do moving sequences that are clearly meant for video, as opposed to trying to videotape static images.

June 6th, 2009, 10:52 PM	#31
David Schuurman Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Hamilton, ON Canada Posts: 369	Photographers can be a brazen bunch. check out this angle from my rear cam recently...I would never even imagine doing this as a videographer...Maybe with a steadicam but I'd never get that close! http://davidschuurman.com/photog.mov lol, was a really nice photographer to work with though otherwise. __________________ http://www.davidschuurman.com http://www.dsweddingcinema.com

July 15th, 2009, 09:51 PM	#36
Aaron Mayberry Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Flint, MI Posts: 212	LOL, awesome clip. excuse me __________________ www.styleandmotion.com - Modern Wedding Films based in Michigan www.miweddingblog.com - Michigan's dedicated wedding blog

July 17th, 2009, 06:03 PM	#42
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	Galen, I have to disagree with you on a few things. I don't see any need for a videographer to ask a photographer if he can film any set-up shots. I also don't agree that the photographer has the right to disallow the videographer from filming the set-up shots. My wife is a photographer so I'm not speaking from a completely biased position. The notion that the photographer has a higher priority or authority is ludicrous in my opinion, as is any notion that his 'posing' is somehow copyrighted. I also completely disagree that it's poor form for the videographer to release footage of any set-up shots before the photographer releases the shots. We're talking about two completely different mediums here, and again, the photographer's poses aren't copyrighted or anything. Something to keep in mind here is that photographers already have the upper hand because they are generally in control of how the photoshoot goes. So while they do have to come up with poses and get everything just right, they also have the advantage of being in control of setting up those poses. Most videographers don't get any input on poses that would work better for video, and that's our disadvantage. In my case, whether I'm working with my wife or not, I make sure to work WITH the photographer and I have the couple pose and perform some interactions that will be more useful to me for the video. Oftentimes this creates great opportunities for the photographer. I would never ask the photographer not to photograph those opportunities, or not to post his shots of those opportunities until I had the DVD done. __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

June 7th, 2009, 01:04 AM	#32
Juan Todoli Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Gandia, Spain Posts: 68	This kind of lack of professional respect deserves a good stumble.

June 8th, 2009, 10:14 AM	#33
Mark Ganglfinger Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hermon Maine USA Posts: 138	I see stuff like that quite a bit around here. I only hope that when the customer sees the photographer all over the video, then they won't be as likely to recommend them.

June 8th, 2009, 11:58 AM	#34
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	When I first started doing wedding videos I would often get frustrated with photographers, but I've gradually learned the following: (1) Don't let it get to you - nothing will be improved by getting upset when a photographer blocks your shot or gives you attitude. If something annoying happens, take a deep breathe and stay focused on doing your job. (2) Do your best to be nice to photographers, and most of the time they'll be nice to you. The ones who aren't, that's their problem. (3) Learn to anticipate the most common situations where a photographer may end up in your shot, and figure out ways to avoid them or work around it. Multiple cameras and an extra tall tripod can help a lot at wedding ceremonies, and being able to move around as needed at the reception is essential. When appropriate, be prepared to get in next to the photographer to get your shot. (4) It's tough for photographers to stay out of view even when they're trying to be conscientious, so cut 'em some slack unless they're obviously being rude. (5) If you do everything you can to shoot around photographers and they still end up getting in key shots to an extent you can't edit out, just leave that in the video and chances are the couple won't mind - or if the photographer is really out of line they'll notice and pass the word to their friends.

July 15th, 2009, 10:15 PM	#37
Kevin Duffey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California Posts: 206	OMG that is hilarious! Wow.. I think if I was the videographer I would have told the couple that I can't get any footage to work with due to their much more expensive photographer constantly getting in my way. That is just beyond unprofessional.. that guy, and the other one too had no care of professionalism in them.

July 17th, 2009, 05:04 PM	#40
Warren Kawamoto Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,435	According to some photographers I've talked to, they work very hard to set up a shot, get the lighting and poses just perfect, run back and forth to fix the bride's dress, and make sure everyone looks perfect from head to toe. While all this is going on, the videographer patiently waits on the side, not doing anything. Then, suddenly he turns on his camera and "steals" the shot, then waits again for the next freebie.

July 17th, 2009, 05:31 PM	#41
Galen Rath Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 323	A lot can be said about this, but a few comments: 1) The photographer's work needs to be respected and not infringed upon. 2) The videographer can always ask the photographer if it is okay to film these set up shots 3) The photographer can request the videographer not to film the set up shots at all, or just indirectly, to just film the overall scene of the shots being taken, as part of the general show 4) In any case, it would be poor form for the videographer to release the video of the set up shots before the photographer does his presentation and selling of his shots, and 5) Since the wedding party is paying the photographer and the videographer, they deserve as much as possible of what they are paying for, and that needs to be remembered by everyone, and they could be included on the decision of what happens at their wedding.

July 17th, 2009, 07:10 PM	#43
Galen Rath Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 323	Thanks, Travis for the counter. If I were a photographer, I would agree with you 100%.