Need advice - how much to charge for a re-edit at DVinfo.net

Dawn Brennan · March 26th, 2009, 07:07 AM

I received an email from a client last night... who's wedding was in June 2008. She loved the video but there is one shot of her during the preparations without makeup that bothers her because she has 'bad skin'. I totally understand her self consciousness and sympathise with her feelings.

BUT her wedding was 9 months ago and she has had her DVD for 6 months or longer. I gave her a review of the day online to watch, which contains this shot that she doesn't like and she never said a word and this was before I mailed the final DVDs. She wants it taken out. I would have to redownload the tapes as I have erased them from my HD. I do have the edited files saved still, so I'd be a matter of matching everything back up again.

She did tell me she's willing to pay, but I have never run into this before and have no clue what to charge her. I feel bad because I really liked working with them, but I am not going to do it for free because there is going to be several hours of work involved here because she waited so long to ask about it and my time is valuable. All that being said... what is a normal rate per hour to charge for a re-edit? Any help or advice here would be very much appreciated!

Paul Kellett · March 26th, 2009, 07:34 AM

If it's that small an adjustment then i'd do it for nothing, most of the time will be spent rendering when you're not even at the pc.
She'll think you're a lovely person etc etc for doing it for nothing, then she'll tell her friends how nice you are blah blah blah, all this could mean more work.

Paul.

Chris Davis · March 26th, 2009, 08:24 AM

Paul, Dawn mentioned that she would have to capture the tapes again and it would be several hours of work. It won't just be rendering time.

Anyway, around here I get $65 per hour for editing. Maybe your time is more valuable, maybe less. I'd tell her exactly how much of your time it will take and how much your time costs. I know how these projects grow, so I wouldn't do it for less than $300.

Matthew Craggs · March 26th, 2009, 08:48 AM

When quoting jobs like these I have a rate for editing, rather it is a re-edit or not, and then the discounted rate for when I don't need to be at the computer, but the system is tied up (i.e. rendering). I would just estimate the amount of time based on your own rate, which you would figure out yourself based on expenses and what you feel your time is worth.

If you haven't calculated your post production rate, I would suggest figuring it out now. That way you can quickly and confidently quote a price the next time something like this comes up.

Dawn Brennan · March 26th, 2009, 10:33 AM

Thanks guys for your input. I love this forum for the support and guidance it provides.

Paul - you are right... if it was just a quick fix and rendering, I'd do it for nothing because of the relationship I had with this couple.

BUT it is going to take a long time and I am a little irritated that I am finding out about this now. I just dumped the video from my hard drive a month or 2 ago and thank goodness I kept the Vegas files. But I have never done the recatpure and tried to match this up with the edited file, so I guesss my hope here is that it recaptures identically to the cuts, ect I had before.

Chris - thanks - $300 is exactly what I was thinking for a minimum because of the lenth of time its really going to take... AMEN to your comment on "how these projects grow"!

Matthew - I do like the idea of an hourly rate for reedit and a lower rate for the hours of capture and rendering. That is a very fair way to look at it. I do want to be fair here and not completely take advantage of the situation, but I do think my time is valuable. I am at home with my 2 and 4 year old children and family is the most valuable thing in the world, right!?

Thanks again, at least I feel better getting back to her now.

Jeff Kellam · March 26th, 2009, 11:41 AM

Dawn:

Do you still have the DVD artwork saved? And will you give them another DVD box with artwork?

Anyway, I don't think your veg file will be able to recreate the timeline unless your capture from tape(s) is exactly the same in length and where you make separate clips, etc. You will also have to use the same clip naming convention, but thats not too big an issue.

I would ask for the DVD from the client or use your copy if you have one to import the disc to the timeline and do a simple ripple edit cutting that scene. If you also have a separate highlight clip on the disc, you will have to capture that one too.

It should smart render pretty quickly after that. Unfortunately, you are going to have to re-author the project. I hope you have the DVDA file saved so at least the menu appearance will be the same, but the chapter markers would all be off.

I would be honest with the client and give them the details of how much work this will be. Someone with no editing knowlege will have no idea how much work is involved.

Im glad Im tapeless and am archiving entire projects, even though I have never had a 6 month later edit request.

Ryan DesRoches · March 26th, 2009, 12:00 PM

I have a "re-edit" fee statement in my contract for issues like these. It's based on a flat hourly rate.

I do give a "one-time" re-edit session for free, but the client needs to notify me of the issue and what they want reedited within three months after they receive their DVD.

The good thing is that no one has asked me for a re-edit. :-)

Travis Cossel · March 26th, 2009, 12:37 PM

Two things ...

First, even it was just a small change and would only take you a few hours, I wouldn't do it for free. Not when the client was given a chance to review the edit, and not when the client has had the DVD's for 6 months. I understand customer service is important, but there is a fine line between offering good service and getting walked over. This is very close to falling into that latter category, especially because changes that come up 6 months later are usually pretty minor, and they will just likely lead to other such changes. And trust me, once you've given in to doing it for free once, they're going to expect that again and again.

Second, for this case charge exactly what the work is worth to you. If you feel you're worth $50/hr, and the project (from capture through DVD production) is going to take you 10 hours, then quote her $500. If it's going to take 20 hours, charge her $1,000. Be clear with her how much time is involved in making a change like this at this point. Better to have her walk away and decide that the clip isn't that bad than to do all 10 hours of work and get paid for 3. I don't know about you, but my time is in short supply.

Good luck!

Matthew Craggs · March 26th, 2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Kellam

Anyway, I don't think your veg file will be able to recreate the timeline unless your capture from tape(s) is exactly the same in length and where you make separate clips, etc.

I've never used Vegas, but every NLE I have used to cut DV footage has been able to batch capture a sequence. I don't know what the original source of the footage was, but even HDV has time code although there is some debate about how frame accurate it is due to the MPEG2 codec. Either way Dawn should be good to go as long as the project files still exist.

I wouldn't recommend ripping from DVD if you can help it, because the DVD video will be compressed again on export and you'll get all sorts of nasty pixelation.

Dawn Brennan · March 26th, 2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Kellam

Dawn:

Do you still have the DVD artwork saved? And will you give them another DVD box with artwork?

Anyway, I don't think your veg file will be able to recreate the timeline unless your capture from tape(s) is exactly the same in length and where you make separate clips, etc. You will also have to use the same clip naming convention, but thats not too big an issue.

I would ask for the DVD from the client or use your copy if you have one to import the disc to the timeline and do a simple ripple edit cutting that scene. If you also have a separate highlight clip on the disc, you will have to capture that one too.

It should smart render pretty quickly after that. Unfortunately, you are going to have to re-author the project. I hope you have the DVDA file saved so at least the menu appearance will be the same, but the chapter markers would all be off.

I would be honest with the client and give them the details of how much work this will be. Someone with no editing knowlege will have no idea how much work is involved.

Im glad Im tapeless and am archiving entire projects, even though I have never had a 6 month later edit request.

Great points. Thankfully, I have all artwork and the DVDA files. I actually have the saved .VOB files from burning the DVDs... and I think I'm going to import those into Vegas and try to edit like you mentioned. I am emailing her a quote today, so we'll see if she's willing to pay for this one clip of her face with no make up. I think she's a beautiful girl and don't see anything wrong with the shot... so I almost feel bad charging her!

But thankfully this may not be as involved of a process as I originally thought! Thanks again!

Dawn Brennan · March 26th, 2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Craggs

I've never used Vegas, but every NLE I have used to cut DV footage has been able to batch capture a sequence. I don't know what the original source of the footage was, but even HDV has time code although there is some debate about how frame accurate it is due to the MPEG2 codec. Either way Dawn should be good to go as long as the project files still exist.

I wouldn't recommend ripping from DVD if you can help it, because the DVD video will be compressed again on export and you'll get all sorts of nasty pixelation.

Oh, geez. How dumb of me. I was looking for an "easier" way out and totally forgot about recompressing these files. I am going to have to go the recapture route because I don't want my reputation to suffer if the quality is not as good as the first one I sent her.

Matthew - It was HDV, so we'll see how well it recaptures! Thanks for straightening me out on this!

Ryan - I also have a "reedit clause" in my contract, but it doesn't state a price, just that there is a fee. I left it open because I have never actually had to do it! LOL... lesson learned!

Chris Davis · March 26th, 2009, 01:34 PM

Another thing that's funny (and frustrating at the same time) is that this "no makeup" scene only bothers her now, and maybe for two or three more years. As she ages, she will appreciate how fleeting beauty is. There will come a day when she'll wish she could see that scene again.

Dawn Brennan · March 26th, 2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Davis

Another thing that's funny (and frustrating at the same time) is that this "no makeup" scene only bothers her now, and maybe for two or three more years. As she ages, she will appreciate how fleeting beauty is. There will come a day when she'll wish she could see that scene again.

LOL... how true this statement is!

Warren Kawamoto · March 26th, 2009, 04:24 PM

Dawn,
Before you even start re-editing, call the bride and tell her what you intend to charge. In most cases, she'll flip! $300-$500 just to take out one shot?? But you charged me $XXXX to shoot the entire wedding day, but you're going to charge me that much just to take out one little shot?? In her mind the amount just doesn't add up. They don't realize how time consuming it is to edit a video.

Learn from your mistake of deleting your files. From now on, always archive your rendered timeline in hd. That way, if anyone wants to make more changes in the future, you can do it in very little time and very easily.

Most videographers don't realize that when brides watch their videos, there are quite a few things they don't like but they won't say anything. Fat thighs, bad hair, closeups of double chins, bad complexion, dark circles under her eyes, a steadicam shot that's too fast and dizzy, or maybe a closeup shot of Trixie, the sleazy girl she never liked but is the best man's girlfriend.

I wouldn't charge her more than $50 just to take out one shot. If you can fix her video, she'll be sure to tell all her friends how great it was to work with you. Conversely, if you give her a hard time, her friends probably won't be calling you in the future. My way of doing business is that the customer ALWAYS gets their way with us. We treat them as king and queen.

That is how we've been able to stay in business for the last 18 years without a website or major advertising. It's all word of mouth.

Adam Haro · March 26th, 2009, 05:00 PM

I agree with Warren to a point, but she's had the video for 6 months. A re-edit takes time, and it also delays current projects. I have a clause in my contract that states the video will remain on the computer for 2 weeks after delivery and any changes need to made within that time. Any changes after 2 weeks will be charged a rate of $30/hr.

March 26th, 2009, 07:07 AM	#1
Dawn Brennan Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 193	Need advice - how much to charge for a re-edit I received an email from a client last night... who's wedding was in June 2008. She loved the video but there is one shot of her during the preparations without makeup that bothers her because she has 'bad skin'. I totally understand her self consciousness and sympathise with her feelings. BUT her wedding was 9 months ago and she has had her DVD for 6 months or longer. I gave her a review of the day online to watch, which contains this shot that she doesn't like and she never said a word and this was before I mailed the final DVDs. She wants it taken out. I would have to redownload the tapes as I have erased them from my HD. I do have the edited files saved still, so I'd be a matter of matching everything back up again. She did tell me she's willing to pay, but I have never run into this before and have no clue what to charge her. I feel bad because I really liked working with them, but I am not going to do it for free because there is going to be several hours of work involved here because she waited so long to ask about it and my time is valuable. All that being said... what is a normal rate per hour to charge for a re-edit? Any help or advice here would be very much appreciated!

March 26th, 2009, 07:34 AM	#2
Paul Kellett Trustee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,273	If it's that small an adjustment then i'd do it for nothing, most of the time will be spent rendering when you're not even at the pc. She'll think you're a lovely person etc etc for doing it for nothing, then she'll tell her friends how nice you are blah blah blah, all this could mean more work. Paul. __________________ Round 2 GH5,FZ2000

March 26th, 2009, 11:41 AM	#6
Jeff Kellam Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 656	Dawn: Do you still have the DVD artwork saved? And will you give them another DVD box with artwork? Anyway, I don't think your veg file will be able to recreate the timeline unless your capture from tape(s) is exactly the same in length and where you make separate clips, etc. You will also have to use the same clip naming convention, but thats not too big an issue. I would ask for the DVD from the client or use your copy if you have one to import the disc to the timeline and do a simple ripple edit cutting that scene. If you also have a separate highlight clip on the disc, you will have to capture that one too. It should smart render pretty quickly after that. Unfortunately, you are going to have to re-author the project. I hope you have the DVDA file saved so at least the menu appearance will be the same, but the chapter markers would all be off. I would be honest with the client and give them the details of how much work this will be. Someone with no editing knowlege will have no idea how much work is involved. Im glad Im tapeless and am archiving entire projects, even though I have never had a 6 month later edit request. __________________ Panasonic HMC150/Canon A1/JVC HD1/Sony Vegas 8.0c

March 26th, 2009, 12:00 PM	#7
Ryan DesRoches Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Worcester, Mass USA Posts: 125	I have a "re-edit" fee statement in my contract for issues like these. It's based on a flat hourly rate. I do give a "one-time" re-edit session for free, but the client needs to notify me of the issue and what they want reedited within three months after they receive their DVD. The good thing is that no one has asked me for a re-edit. :-) __________________ Lakota Den Productions, LLC Http://LakotaDenProductions.com

March 26th, 2009, 12:37 PM	#8
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	Two things ... First, even it was just a small change and would only take you a few hours, I wouldn't do it for free. Not when the client was given a chance to review the edit, and not when the client has had the DVD's for 6 months. I understand customer service is important, but there is a fine line between offering good service and getting walked over. This is very close to falling into that latter category, especially because changes that come up 6 months later are usually pretty minor, and they will just likely lead to other such changes. And trust me, once you've given in to doing it for free once, they're going to expect that again and again. Second, for this case charge exactly what the work is worth to you. If you feel you're worth $50/hr, and the project (from capture through DVD production) is going to take you 10 hours, then quote her $500. If it's going to take 20 hours, charge her $1,000. Be clear with her how much time is involved in making a change like this at this point. Better to have her walk away and decide that the clip isn't that bad than to do all 10 hours of work and get paid for 3. I don't know about you, but my time is in short supply. Good luck! __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

March 26th, 2009, 08:24 AM	#3
Chris Davis Trustee Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Willmar, MN Posts: 1,400	Paul, Dawn mentioned that she would have to capture the tapes again and it would be several hours of work. It won't just be rendering time. Anyway, around here I get $65 per hour for editing. Maybe your time is more valuable, maybe less. I'd tell her exactly how much of your time it will take and how much your time costs. I know how these projects grow, so I wouldn't do it for less than $300.

March 26th, 2009, 08:48 AM	#4
Matthew Craggs Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Welland, Ontario Posts: 311	When quoting jobs like these I have a rate for editing, rather it is a re-edit or not, and then the discounted rate for when I don't need to be at the computer, but the system is tied up (i.e. rendering). I would just estimate the amount of time based on your own rate, which you would figure out yourself based on expenses and what you feel your time is worth. If you haven't calculated your post production rate, I would suggest figuring it out now. That way you can quickly and confidently quote a price the next time something like this comes up.

March 26th, 2009, 10:33 AM	#5
Dawn Brennan Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 193	Thanks guys for your input. I love this forum for the support and guidance it provides. Paul - you are right... if it was just a quick fix and rendering, I'd do it for nothing because of the relationship I had with this couple. BUT it is going to take a long time and I am a little irritated that I am finding out about this now. I just dumped the video from my hard drive a month or 2 ago and thank goodness I kept the Vegas files. But I have never done the recatpure and tried to match this up with the edited file, so I guesss my hope here is that it recaptures identically to the cuts, ect I had before. Chris - thanks - $300 is exactly what I was thinking for a minimum because of the lenth of time its really going to take... AMEN to your comment on "how these projects grow"! Matthew - I do like the idea of an hourly rate for reedit and a lower rate for the hours of capture and rendering. That is a very fair way to look at it. I do want to be fair here and not completely take advantage of the situation, but I do think my time is valuable. I am at home with my 2 and 4 year old children and family is the most valuable thing in the world, right!? Thanks again, at least I feel better getting back to her now.

March 26th, 2009, 01:34 PM	#12
Chris Davis Trustee Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Willmar, MN Posts: 1,400	Another thing that's funny (and frustrating at the same time) is that this "no makeup" scene only bothers her now, and maybe for two or three more years. As she ages, she will appreciate how fleeting beauty is. There will come a day when she'll wish she could see that scene again.

March 26th, 2009, 04:24 PM	#14
Warren Kawamoto Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,435	Dawn, Before you even start re-editing, call the bride and tell her what you intend to charge. In most cases, she'll flip! $300-$500 just to take out one shot?? But you charged me $XXXX to shoot the entire wedding day, but you're going to charge me that much just to take out one little shot?? In her mind the amount just doesn't add up. They don't realize how time consuming it is to edit a video. Learn from your mistake of deleting your files. From now on, always archive your rendered timeline in hd. That way, if anyone wants to make more changes in the future, you can do it in very little time and very easily. Most videographers don't realize that when brides watch their videos, there are quite a few things they don't like but they won't say anything. Fat thighs, bad hair, closeups of double chins, bad complexion, dark circles under her eyes, a steadicam shot that's too fast and dizzy, or maybe a closeup shot of Trixie, the sleazy girl she never liked but is the best man's girlfriend. I wouldn't charge her more than $50 just to take out one shot. If you can fix her video, she'll be sure to tell all her friends how great it was to work with you. Conversely, if you give her a hard time, her friends probably won't be calling you in the future. My way of doing business is that the customer ALWAYS gets their way with us. We treat them as king and queen. That is how we've been able to stay in business for the last 18 years without a website or major advertising. It's all word of mouth.

March 26th, 2009, 05:00 PM	#15
Adam Haro Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 171	I agree with Warren to a point, but she's had the video for 6 months. A re-edit takes time, and it also delays current projects. I have a clause in my contract that states the video will remain on the computer for 2 weeks after delivery and any changes need to made within that time. Any changes after 2 weeks will be charged a rate of $30/hr.