Coloring for weddings at DVinfo.net

Blake Cavett · March 8th, 2009, 02:38 PM

I'm hoping this post is in the right spot. Since it pertains to wedding videos, that's the reason for putting it here.

I'm upgrading to FCS2 so I'll have Color available, but the learning curve is fairly steep... or so I've heard.

So I'm wondering what would be the best route to go: MB Looks, NewBlue FX or Color.

Just curious as to what you use (if any) and why. Price, ease of use, etc.?

Martin Mayer · March 8th, 2009, 02:59 PM

I'd start with FCP's own 3-way Color Correction filter. It can go a long way before you need something else.

You'll need some accurate/calibratable video monitoring facilities though, otherwise you're just pi**ing in the wind! :D

(I'm sure you know that the Canvas alone won't cut it when you're after color-correction - but some others reading this might not!)

Blake Cavett · March 8th, 2009, 03:04 PM

I've wizzed in the wind plenty of times! :)
I'm familiar with FCP's 3-way CC.... just wondering about taking it up a step (or two) as far as coloring goes.

Tripp Woelfel · March 8th, 2009, 08:31 PM

Not an FCP user but since I've gotten quite serious about doing "good" color in the last two years, I found the best thing I've done is learn about the fundamentals. I got "coloring" books for both still photography and video. Read them and learned quite a bit. Whether that translated into better coloring I'll have to leave to others, but it has given me confidence and I more often end up with a result I'm happy with.

Once you understand the underpinnings, you can maximize the tools you have and then figure out which tools you need.

Mitchell Lewis · March 8th, 2009, 08:33 PM

Color has a bunch of presets that come with it. You can simply use them without ever having to dig too deep into the program.

Color correction can be as simple as boosting saturation or as complicated as changing and tracking an individual color (like the color of someone's shirt).

Glenn Fisher · March 8th, 2009, 09:46 PM

I've heard the rumor going around that Color is difficult to learn, but I have to disagree. I think that, like Final Cut Pro, it can look daunting the first time a user opens it up, but as he/she fiddles around, it becomes clear that it's easier than expected to get started, but difficult to master (because of the breadth and capability of the application).

I watched a twenty minute tutorial from IzzyVideo on the Color workflow, fiddled around with it on one project, and feel comfortable in using it to make adjustments to images. Of course, I won't even go so far as to say that I'm good with it, but I was able to open it up and make the image "pop" a little bit. As I learn more and keep playing with it, my skills will increase.

Instead of considering the difficulty of education yourself in how to use the applications, I would instead focus on the time management and processing aspect. The biggest off-putting factor that I have for Color is the amount of time it takes to render, and the file space that those renders take up. Unfortunately, I work solely on a Macbook Pro, which I need to almost never stays in the same place for more than 12 hours. That makes rendering and whatnot a pain for me, but it might be easier for you if you have a desktop machine. Also, consider the increased turn-around time in color-correcting and rendering.

I'm not sure about the workflow with the other applications (plug-ins?) that you mentioned. That would definitely be the first thing I would look in to so that you don't invest money into a product that you never use since it's inconvenient or takes too long. Of course, it could be that Color has the shortest rendering times of all 3! I really can't say since I've never used the other plug-ins, and I haven't even looked at their websites.

Let us know what you choose, I'm curious to see what you pick!

Best Regards,
Glenn Fisher

Blake Cavett · March 9th, 2009, 01:09 PM

For some reason MB Looks keeps calling out to me...

'Pick me....' it says. 'I'm easy. You'll love me. Order a pizza while I render and then come back and look how awesome I am.'

Color comes across to me as saying 'I'm awesome as well... once you spend the next 28 weeks figuring me out.'

Reuben Miller · March 9th, 2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blake Cavett

For some reason MB Looks keeps calling out to me...

'Pick me....' it says. 'I'm easy. You'll love me. Order a pizza while I render and then come back and look how awesome I am.'

Color comes across to me as saying 'I'm awesome as well... once you spend the next 28 weeks figuring me out.'

I use both. And I don't think it will take you long to get up to speed with Color. May I recommend a book?

Color - Correcting and Grading in Final Cut Studio
by: Michael Wohl and David Gross

It's part of the Apple Pro Training Series 380 pages, available at Amazon.

As the above poster mentioned, you'll need an external NTSC broadcast monitor to do Standard Definition correctly. You can find a JVC or Sony 9" for a few hundred dollars.

If you plan on color grading HD, you'll also need to get a card that is capable of providing HD out, such as an Intensity, or Decklink, and then connect an HDTV that suits your budget / needs.

Good Luck!

Paul Mailath · March 9th, 2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripp Woelfel

... I found the best thing I've done is learn about the fundamentals...Once you understand the underpinnings, you can maximize the tools you have and then figure out which tools you need.

makes a lot of sense to me, I'm looking at MB looks and while it seems easy, that's the trap - you never get to really understand the fundamentals.

BTW what books did to read Tripp? - any recommendations?

Tripp Woelfel · March 9th, 2009, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Mailath

makes a lot of sense to me, I'm looking at MB looks and while it seems easy, that's the trap - you never get to really understand the fundamentals.

The cool thing is that once you understand the fundamentals, you can fine tune the controls within MBL. You'll know how to tweak them and why to get just the look you want. Many of MBL's presets are sledgehammers. Sometimes you really want a scalpel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Mailath

BTW what books did to read Tripp? - any recommendations?

"Color Correction for Digital Video" by Hullfish & Fowler. I also found "Scott Kelby's 7 Point System for Adobe Photoshop" helpful. True, it's for still image and there's a bunch that doesn't transfer to video, but many of the "hows" and "whys" do.

Richard Wakefield · March 10th, 2009, 01:38 PM

speaking of NewBlueFX....

for those interested in ultra cool/different transitions and effects, def. worth checking this offer out:

NewBlueFX Motion Bundle

(looks like it ends this week though!!!)

Matthew Ebenezer · March 20th, 2009, 07:26 AM

I can't go past Magic Bullet Colorista and Magic Bullet Looks for all my colour correction. Although, since switching to Final Cut Pro from Premiere I've started playing around with the 3-way colour correction.

I don't like it as much as the Magic Bullet gear but the render times are a whole lot better that's for sure. As soon as you add Magic Bullet the render times for me triple or quadruple. That's the trade-off you have to make I guess.

Cheers,

Matthew.

Patrick Moreau · March 25th, 2009, 09:04 PM

hey matt

just wait till we get together - ill show you some mad FCP tips and tricks so you never have to think about MB again

P.

Matthew Ebenezer · March 25th, 2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Moreau

hey matt

just wait till we get together - ill show you some mad FCP tips and tricks so you never have to think about MB again

P.

I like the sound of that!

Oleg Kalyan · March 26th, 2009, 12:31 AM

Color does it for me for some serious color correction with primary and secondary colors, curves, among many other things. The material is converted into 422 Prorez HQ off course for more subtle color manipulation.
Straight in FCP there are great tools as well.

March 8th, 2009, 02:38 PM	#1
Blake Cavett Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Madison Posts: 330	Coloring for weddings I'm hoping this post is in the right spot. Since it pertains to wedding videos, that's the reason for putting it here. I'm upgrading to FCS2 so I'll have Color available, but the learning curve is fairly steep... or so I've heard. So I'm wondering what would be the best route to go: MB Looks, NewBlue FX or Color. Just curious as to what you use (if any) and why. Price, ease of use, etc.?

March 8th, 2009, 02:59 PM	#2
Martin Mayer Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Oxfordshire, UK Posts: 416	I'd start with FCP's own 3-way Color Correction filter. It can go a long way before you need something else. You'll need some accurate/calibratable video monitoring facilities though, otherwise you're just piing in the wind! :D (I'm sure you know that the Canvas alone won't cut it when you're after color-correction - but some others reading this might not!) __________________ Martin at HeadSpin HD on Blu-ray**

March 8th, 2009, 08:33 PM	#5
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Color has a bunch of presets that come with it. You can simply use them without ever having to dig too deep into the program. Color correction can be as simple as boosting saturation or as complicated as changing and tracking an individual color (like the color of someone's shirt). __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

March 10th, 2009, 01:38 PM	#11
Richard Wakefield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Surrey, UK Posts: 680	speaking of NewBlueFX.... for those interested in ultra cool/different transitions and effects, def. worth checking this offer out: NewBlueFX Motion Bundle (looks like it ends this week though!!!) Last edited by Richard Wakefield; March 10th, 2009 at 03:24 PM.

March 20th, 2009, 07:26 AM	#12
Matthew Ebenezer Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toowoomba, Australia Posts: 370	I can't go past Magic Bullet Colorista and Magic Bullet Looks for all my colour correction. Although, since switching to Final Cut Pro from Premiere I've started playing around with the 3-way colour correction. I don't like it as much as the Magic Bullet gear but the render times are a whole lot better that's for sure. As soon as you add Magic Bullet the render times for me triple or quadruple. That's the trade-off you have to make I guess. Cheers, Matthew. __________________ --------------------------------------------------------- www.shadowplay.com.au --- www.shadowplay.com.au/blog

March 8th, 2009, 03:04 PM	#3
Blake Cavett Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Madison Posts: 330	I've wizzed in the wind plenty of times! :) I'm familiar with FCP's 3-way CC.... just wondering about taking it up a step (or two) as far as coloring goes.

March 8th, 2009, 08:31 PM	#4
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	Not an FCP user but since I've gotten quite serious about doing "good" color in the last two years, I found the best thing I've done is learn about the fundamentals. I got "coloring" books for both still photography and video. Read them and learned quite a bit. Whether that translated into better coloring I'll have to leave to others, but it has given me confidence and I more often end up with a result I'm happy with. Once you understand the underpinnings, you can maximize the tools you have and then figure out which tools you need.

March 8th, 2009, 09:46 PM	#6
Glenn Fisher Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bridgewater, NJ Posts: 65	I've heard the rumor going around that Color is difficult to learn, but I have to disagree. I think that, like Final Cut Pro, it can look daunting the first time a user opens it up, but as he/she fiddles around, it becomes clear that it's easier than expected to get started, but difficult to master (because of the breadth and capability of the application). I watched a twenty minute tutorial from IzzyVideo on the Color workflow, fiddled around with it on one project, and feel comfortable in using it to make adjustments to images. Of course, I won't even go so far as to say that I'm good with it, but I was able to open it up and make the image "pop" a little bit. As I learn more and keep playing with it, my skills will increase. Instead of considering the difficulty of education yourself in how to use the applications, I would instead focus on the time management and processing aspect. The biggest off-putting factor that I have for Color is the amount of time it takes to render, and the file space that those renders take up. Unfortunately, I work solely on a Macbook Pro, which I need to almost never stays in the same place for more than 12 hours. That makes rendering and whatnot a pain for me, but it might be easier for you if you have a desktop machine. Also, consider the increased turn-around time in color-correcting and rendering. I'm not sure about the workflow with the other applications (plug-ins?) that you mentioned. That would definitely be the first thing I would look in to so that you don't invest money into a product that you never use since it's inconvenient or takes too long. Of course, it could be that Color has the shortest rendering times of all 3! I really can't say since I've never used the other plug-ins, and I haven't even looked at their websites. Let us know what you choose, I'm curious to see what you pick! Best Regards, Glenn Fisher

March 9th, 2009, 01:09 PM	#7
Blake Cavett Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Madison Posts: 330	For some reason MB Looks keeps calling out to me... 'Pick me....' it says. 'I'm easy. You'll love me. Order a pizza while I render and then come back and look how awesome I am.' Color comes across to me as saying 'I'm awesome as well... once you spend the next 28 weeks figuring me out.'

March 25th, 2009, 09:04 PM	#13
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	hey matt just wait till we get together - ill show you some mad FCP tips and tricks so you never have to think about MB again P. __________________ site // www.stillmotion.ca blog // www.stillmotionblog.com edu // www.stillmotionexperience.com

March 26th, 2009, 12:31 AM	#15
Oleg Kalyan Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: MOSCOW Posts: 860	Color does it for me for some serious color correction with primary and secondary colors, curves, among many other things. The material is converted into 422 Prorez HQ off course for more subtle color manipulation. Straight in FCP there are great tools as well.