Vimeo - personal deosn't mean personal at DVinfo.net

Peter Ralph · March 4th, 2009, 08:04 PM

I had always discounted vimeo as a source for showcasing video because it has a very strong "vimeo is for personal use only" warning. As a video producer I figured any video I produced for a paying client wouldn't qualify.

But then last week I have a video I produced pro bono for the local libary district -my wife being publicity director. Their servers are not set up for video...so, I figured this is personal I'll throw it up on vimeo. Smooth process, great quality - top banana.

But not much use to me because of the "personal only" stipulation.

Looking around a little I quickly find out that to vimeo a "personal video" is one that you were personally involved with making. As long as it does not explicitly attempt to sell a product or service you are fine.

So if you do decide to check out Vimeo stop by and say hi. Here is the first of my contributions: a short presentation on that guy who got his arm caught under a rock in the desert by Moab.

Aron Ralston on Vimeo

Kent Frost · March 4th, 2009, 08:12 PM

I remember hearing about that guy in the news. Amazing. Strong will to live.

Great video. Thanks for showing.

Lukas Siewior · March 4th, 2009, 08:16 PM

I like how Vimeo can host the video files and make them password protected, so you decide who will watch it or not. Also use it to share some "unsafe" footage to friends :-)

Peter Ralph · March 5th, 2009, 05:13 PM

unsafe? - you mean like shots of your little brother running with scissors?

I have been informed that I am probably the last videographer in the US not to know that vimeo allowed videographers/filmmakers to promote their work. Mea Culpa.

Lukas Siewior · March 5th, 2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ralph

unsafe? - you mean like shots of your little brother running with scissors?

I have been informed that I am probably the last videographer in the US not to know that vimeo allowed videographers/filmmakers to promote their work. Mea Culpa.

Let say that "unsafe" are the ones targeted to the very few ppl who where involved in the video - simply video drafts :-)

I wonder if it is violation to host the highlight reels from the weddings. It's says on the site that:

"Video makers may upload demo reels of their work. Musicians may promote their own music/music videos. Independent Production companies may promote the videos they create. Writers may promote their books."

but also:

"Businesses may not use Vimeo to promote their business in any way. Businesses may not use Vimeo to host their videos if they have advertising on their site."

It's confusing, to say at least. Are we a Businesses or Independent Production Companies???

I guess I'll worry when I get ban :-)

Paul Kellett · March 5th, 2009, 06:34 PM

I suppose it means you can't advertise something which you're selling, ie, a property video of your house which you're trying to sell.
When you show a wedding highlight, you're showing something, an event, which has already happened, the wedding package was sold before it even got to vimeo.

Paul.

Peter Ralph · March 5th, 2009, 06:43 PM

Vimeo respond on the forums to questions, but it seems to me they are deliberately vague. Clearly there are thousands of video producers on vimeo who blatantly ignore the guidelines.

As to worrying when you are banned...

A video of mine - my 14 year old son and a couple of friends playing "La Grange" using pig-nose (battery powered) amps on the back of a flatbed to support "Blue Stars" - a charity giving musical instruments to kids with terminal cancer diagnoses. Dozens of other covers of La Grange on YT - but this one gets pulled.

So the video is removed from YT. But all the embeds now read "This video has been removed after copyright violation complaints" from half a dozen music publishers. Makes me sound like a frikkin criminal.

I certainly would not want any clients/brides embedding a video and then faced with "withdrawn for violating terms of service".

They are considering extending their paid version for commercial use, and it it stays at $60 a year that would be a bargain.

Peter Ralph · March 5th, 2009, 07:02 PM

for weddings - what do vimeo TOS say about copyrighted music?

Lukas Siewior · March 5th, 2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ralph

for weddings - what do vimeo TOS say about copyrighted music?

Vimeo says nothing yet - YT deletes the files right away.

Tripp Woelfel · March 5th, 2009, 09:58 PM

I think Vimeo is generally a bit looser than YT because they're smaller (much smaller, if I had to guess) and doesn't get the scrutiny that YT gets. If Vimeo gets big enough, I wouldn't be surprised if they adopt similar policies.

Lukas Siewior · March 5th, 2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripp Woelfel

I think Vimeo is generally a bit looser than YT because they're smaller (much smaller, if I had to guess) and doesn't get the scrutiny that YT gets. If Vimeo gets big enough, I wouldn't be surprised if they adopt similar policies.

I'm sure they'll be forced to.

Tim Harjo · March 5th, 2009, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukas Siewior

Vimeo says nothing yet - YT deletes the files right away.

I don't have any wedding vids on yt, but I do have some videos I have made of offroading trips that use copyrighted music. yt send me an email saying that a music company has staken claim to the music in my video and that they will be allowed to advertise on the yt page that my video is posted.

Lukas Siewior · March 5th, 2009, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Harjo

I don't have any wedding vids on yt, but I do have some videos I have made of offroading trips that use copyrighted music. yt send me an email saying that a music company has taken claim to the music in my video and that they will be allowed to advertise on the yt page that my video is posted.

That's true - I had the same situation with my music video contest. We had to do the video for this one song. After the contest was finished all videos with the music from that band had ads posted.

Carl Wilky · March 7th, 2009, 07:55 PM

It funny I was going to post a thread regarding this exact issue. Do any of you guys have a backup plan when, because it is a question of when, Vimeo will strip or simply remove your demos and your client's clips off their site because of copyright infringements? YT is doing it and even Facebook is doing it now, So aside from hosting your clips on your own site any other suggestions?

P.S. sorry i don't mean to hijack your thread Peter, but now that you do have a clip on Vimeo i'm sure you'll be interested in finding out a solution.

Peter Ralph · March 8th, 2009, 10:30 AM

The clip I uploaded does not break Vimeo ToS however strictly you interpret them.

Maybe Vimeo will release a new PLUS version for commercial use? Looking at the vimeo "staff picks", they certainly have a strong preference for arty/experimental pieces, so maybe not. But there's a lot of $$$$ for vimeo down that path. Right now on the ease of use/quality/flexibility matrix none of the (affordable) paid services come close.

Upload an HD file from the timeline, and allow clients, their friends, their family, even their servants and tennis partners - to embed the video on their facebook/blog/website at any size they choose via copy and paste. Streamed from enterprise level video servers. - Lot of people ready to say yes to that with their credit cards.

Right now the vimeo attitude is "you are a lowlife if you try to get something for nothing by using a personal service for advantage". But with the White House on board they are going to have to rethink that.

The copyright music issue is a bigger sticking point for wedding video.

March 4th, 2009, 08:04 PM	#1
Peter Ralph Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Denver/Vail Colorado Posts: 254	Vimeo - personal doesn't mean personal I had always discounted vimeo as a source for showcasing video because it has a very strong "vimeo is for personal use only" warning. As a video producer I figured any video I produced for a paying client wouldn't qualify. But then last week I have a video I produced pro bono for the local libary district -my wife being publicity director. Their servers are not set up for video...so, I figured this is personal I'll throw it up on vimeo. Smooth process, great quality - top banana. But not much use to me because of the "personal only" stipulation. Looking around a little I quickly find out that to vimeo a "personal video" is one that you were personally involved with making. As long as it does not explicitly attempt to sell a product or service you are fine. So if you do decide to check out Vimeo stop by and say hi. Here is the first of my contributions: a short presentation on that guy who got his arm caught under a rock in the desert by Moab. Aron Ralston on Vimeo Last edited by Peter Ralph; March 4th, 2009 at 09:09 PM.

March 4th, 2009, 08:12 PM	#2
Kent Frost Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Springfield, Missouri Posts: 117	I remember hearing about that guy in the news. Amazing. Strong will to live. Great video. Thanks for showing. __________________ "Your world is all these elements; of light and sound, of taste, smell, and touch. Woven together in many dimensions on the fabulous loom of your brain. Your brain; the most complicated thing in the world, which you yourself grew...without even thinking about it."

March 5th, 2009, 06:34 PM	#6
Paul Kellett Trustee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,273	I suppose it means you can't advertise something which you're selling, ie, a property video of your house which you're trying to sell. When you show a wedding highlight, you're showing something, an event, which has already happened, the wedding package was sold before it even got to vimeo. Paul. __________________ Round 2 GH5,FZ2000

March 4th, 2009, 08:16 PM	#3
Lukas Siewior Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lyndhurst, NJ, USA Posts: 408	I like how Vimeo can host the video files and make them password protected, so you decide who will watch it or not. Also use it to share some "unsafe" footage to friends :-)

March 5th, 2009, 05:13 PM	#4
Peter Ralph Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Denver/Vail Colorado Posts: 254	unsafe? - you mean like shots of your little brother running with scissors? I have been informed that I am probably the last videographer in the US not to know that vimeo allowed videographers/filmmakers to promote their work. Mea Culpa.

March 5th, 2009, 06:43 PM	#7
Peter Ralph Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Denver/Vail Colorado Posts: 254	Vimeo respond on the forums to questions, but it seems to me they are deliberately vague. Clearly there are thousands of video producers on vimeo who blatantly ignore the guidelines. As to worrying when you are banned... A video of mine - my 14 year old son and a couple of friends playing "La Grange" using pig-nose (battery powered) amps on the back of a flatbed to support "Blue Stars" - a charity giving musical instruments to kids with terminal cancer diagnoses. Dozens of other covers of La Grange on YT - but this one gets pulled. So the video is removed from YT. But all the embeds now read "This video has been removed after copyright violation complaints" from half a dozen music publishers. Makes me sound like a frikkin criminal. I certainly would not want any clients/brides embedding a video and then faced with "withdrawn for violating terms of service". They are considering extending their paid version for commercial use, and it it stays at $60 a year that would be a bargain.

March 5th, 2009, 07:02 PM	#8
Peter Ralph Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Denver/Vail Colorado Posts: 254	for weddings - what do vimeo TOS say about copyrighted music?

March 5th, 2009, 09:58 PM	#10
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	I think Vimeo is generally a bit looser than YT because they're smaller (much smaller, if I had to guess) and doesn't get the scrutiny that YT gets. If Vimeo gets big enough, I wouldn't be surprised if they adopt similar policies.

March 7th, 2009, 07:55 PM	#14
Carl Wilky Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Montéal, Canada Posts: 115	It funny I was going to post a thread regarding this exact issue. Do any of you guys have a backup plan when, because it is a question of when, Vimeo will strip or simply remove your demos and your client's clips off their site because of copyright infringements? YT is doing it and even Facebook is doing it now, So aside from hosting your clips on your own site any other suggestions? P.S. sorry i don't mean to hijack your thread Peter, but now that you do have a clip on Vimeo i'm sure you'll be interested in finding out a solution.

March 8th, 2009, 10:30 AM	#15
Peter Ralph Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Denver/Vail Colorado Posts: 254	The clip I uploaded does not break Vimeo ToS however strictly you interpret them. Maybe Vimeo will release a new PLUS version for commercial use? Looking at the vimeo "staff picks", they certainly have a strong preference for arty/experimental pieces, so maybe not. But there's a lot of $$$$ for vimeo down that path. Right now on the ease of use/quality/flexibility matrix none of the (affordable) paid services come close. Upload an HD file from the timeline, and allow clients, their friends, their family, even their servants and tennis partners - to embed the video on their facebook/blog/website at any size they choose via copy and paste. Streamed from enterprise level video servers. - Lot of people ready to say yes to that with their credit cards. Right now the vimeo attitude is "you are a lowlife if you try to get something for nothing by using a personal service for advantage". But with the White House on board they are going to have to rethink that. The copyright music issue is a bigger sticking point for wedding video.