I need to know what you think? at DVinfo.net

Travis Minchew · February 17th, 2009, 03:51 PM

I know that we as Videographers have been an active part in changing what people, brides, think about videography. Videography is becoming as much as an importance as photography. I want to know what you think about this.

At OurWeddingDay.com is a nice site, they put brides in contact with vendors. but I have a problem. I noticed that when the bride is looking for a photographer it gives her some options:

Photographer budget $1,500 - $3,000 then goes up.

Then right under the photographer it gives the bride an option for the videographer

Videographer budget up to $1,000

My thoughts is... it states to the bride that you should pay more for the photographer and you should not have to pay that much for
the videographer. wow... it is a little hard not to take that the wrong way.

The website is very nice and works well. The website gave us a 14 day trial and the only problem we had was with this issue.

They did not seam impressed to change this on their site, they said based off research is why they have the difference in price.

Am I the only one reading this... seam to have an issue/problem with this? I would like to know what you think.

A reprentative from the company asked me to let him know your response. Thank you for your time in reading this and comments.

tminchew@msn.com

Josh Swan · February 17th, 2009, 04:35 PM

The only package I have under $1000 is for raw footage. My prices are right along side the Photog listing. I think they definitely need to change the prices for the videographers! If they didn't I would think twice about advertising with them since they are not making your prices look good compared to what they are making the brides believe is the 'norm'.
Not the most positive thing for a bride to see, clicking on a link for videographers under $1000 just to see that your prices are well over. That would make the illusion that you are highly overpriced (which is not the case)
I don't know where and who they received their information from for the research, but it's almost insulting to good videographers to post such prices. I mean come on....what is this craigslist.

Travis Minchew · February 17th, 2009, 05:41 PM

I encourage everyone to let me know what you think. I appreciate it.

Nicholas de Kock · February 17th, 2009, 05:56 PM

This is crazy! They are giving us a bad deal, I feel that we should stand together and petition against comments like that. Our equipment cost more than photographers, our edits take longer, we need monster workstations to handle all the data of HD and we employ staff to help with the shooting, in every sense we should be charging more than photographers. I don't even have a package for $1000.

Dave Blackhurst · February 18th, 2009, 12:19 AM

Research??? Sounds like Uncle Bob Cam pricing. I MIGHT shoot for that if we share genes or I've known you for a LOOOONG time. AND that's only if I like you... a lot... on a personal level...

OK, maybe I'd stick a camera on a tripod and hand you a CD of the result... that's painless... except I'd be twitching because I know how much better a proper multicam documentary of the day would memorialize the most important day of many people's lives...

With the economy as it is (and our local economy is pretty lousy), I'm considering lower priced packages, whatever pays the bills, but anything even close to the 1K mark would be "no frills". I'm close to a templated package that might make for a viable quick cut and swap files approach for the end product (for the typical short ceremony and fast reception), but...

It makes for a REALLY low expectation to say "up to $1K", and for a site wanting to get you to advertise, they need to readjust their espectations...

Valuing a vendor at 1/2-1/3 of what they are worth or at MOST 2/3rds... I'm not feeling the love.

It's really a shame that people generally don't seem to know the difference between well shot video and "monkey cam" footage and set the bar so low.

Jason Robinson · February 18th, 2009, 01:19 AM

Ditch them and go somewhere else. I have been lookging through a lot of sites and I came to one vendor's director web site. THE picture for videography was a consumer camera sitting on a POS tripod. I emailed the owner saying "you have got to be serious if you think this is videography"

No response. And he won't be getting my money either.

Ken Diewert · February 18th, 2009, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Minchew

I encourage everyone to let me know what you think. I appreciate it.

Travis,

Send them some links to sites like Stillmotion, Cloudnine, Silver-media, etc., and some of the other established wedding videographers who have prices listed.

Craig Terott · February 18th, 2009, 02:18 PM

Obviously the site was set up by a former photographer.

Noel Lising · February 18th, 2009, 03:20 PM

Here is another one, money saving tip offered by a wedding site. I know 1 & 2 are given but asking a friend is an open invitation.

*
Go for packages with one camera coverage
*
Pick a package with limited editing or none at all.
*
If you can't afford a professional video, ask a friend or 2 that own their own video cameras to shoot the day for you. Putting an unfamiliar camera in someone else's hands is useless. Professionals know what to shoot and how to shoot it. So, give your friend a list of events that you want footage of and how you want each shot, for the entire day. Example:
o
Pre-Ceremony: Close-up footage for 10-seconds of the different decorations.(altar arrangements, pew bows, wreath outside and unity candle)
o
The guys waiting. Ask the groom what he's thinking about.
o
The guests arriving (especially immediate family)

Don Bloom · February 18th, 2009, 05:30 PM

while at it the bride can give her *must take* photo list to Uncle Harry. Hell more often than not he's got the same if not better equipment than the hired photog.

See this is what really gets me. Now I've been around long enough to know and understand that video is usually the last thing to get and the first thing to go but come on. Oh wait, that's right. They can't hire me because they just spent 2 grand on a stretch Hummer limothat they'll ride in for all of about 45 minutes (house to church--church to reception) and they'll forget about the ride in 3 days, but hire a professional videographer to capture the most important day of their lives? Something they can keep and watch for their lives together, remember their grandparents and later their parents, something their kids can watch tooalso remember their family members with? Naw, we'll never watch it. I hate the way I look in videos. Maybe if you had someone that knows how to use a camera and editing system you wouldn't hate the way you look. Oh by the way, didn't your friends have a pro do the video? Ask them how they like it.
I'm being a bit sarcastic here and a bit grumpy but it's never made sense to me. Even back in the 80's I got better excuses than some give me today.
Ahh never mind me, I'm sick today and just feelin' feisty but I know there's some truth in what I say.

Matt Bishop · February 18th, 2009, 05:49 PM

There's a lot of truth to what you say!!!!

I'll keep it simple for what I see all the time. I've been fortunate to personally see more people book us in the beginning of their planning, but as far as the industry goes, it's still bad.

Always the last thing to get if they still have room in their 'budget', but when they don't, it's the first thing they regret once the day is over!!!!!!!

Matt

Philip Gioja · February 18th, 2009, 06:01 PM

I'm a little crazy I guess, and I'm in a funky market here, but I have a one camera package that we do for (barely) under $1000. I actually make about the same on my one cam package as I do on my two cam package because I shoot as many shows as I can myself.

I don't have a high-end cushy lifestyle, but I feel like it's a good price for where I'm at right now, and the brides I work for love my work.

Plus we do better with one camera than most of my competition in the area can do with two.

Maybe I'm working too hard, but I'd rather be working (-:

Travis Minchew · February 18th, 2009, 07:14 PM

Thank you for posting to this topic, I know there are some videographers who prices are under and up to $1,000, but this does not make it right for a website to say you should pay more for a photographer and videographers you should not have to pay as much. That is telling the bride , photographers should cost more.

Our standard average booking for our company for an average bride is $2,000-$4,000 but we do have prices in our price structure that a bride can book us for around a $1,000, and ceremony only for about $500-$750.

It is wrong for a website to give the option to brides saying that photographer budget $1,500-$3,000 and then right under the photographer it has the videographer only "0 up to $1,000" This is the topic of this thread.... I want to know what you guys think about the above paragraph. This company after they did not change or offer to change it, I told them I would post this topic on forums for videographers and let them know what their company's website does for videographer industry, and let them know what replys I get.

I appreciate your comments on this issue and will let you know the outcome or progress, sure it is just one company, but it tells brides that videography is not as important.

what is your thoughts?

Lukas Siewior · February 18th, 2009, 07:17 PM

we should create our own website - kinda yellowpages for wedding videogs with tips how to book a gig and make sure it's done the way they want it. with a a brake down how much work we do put in it and with examples why it is so important to have video at the wedding.

i.e.

www.bestweddingvideotips.com

Don Bloom · February 18th, 2009, 09:09 PM

Those sites are out there. WEVA and 4evergroup both have site dedicated to videography business. IMO if anyone in any business needs a website to tell them how to book work after they've been in whatever business then I'm sorry to say they shouldn't be in business. Being in the video business requires more than being a good shooter and editor. It requires being a good businessperson. That means know where and how to get work, how to book it, how much to charge and charging for what. HOw to amortize your gear, knowing that you have overhead and expenses that need to be proportioned over the business you book, etc. Sorry if I sound harsh or mean or grumpy but when someone says to me "I booked a gig charged $1000 so I made $1000 on the job" it's all I can do to hold my tongue. We don't need another website to do this. Theres plenty of information here, on WEVA and 4evergroup.
Now on to the OP question. It's easy. The people that run that site are idiots and place no value on video so they don't think anyone else should either. So the solution to the question is easy. Don't sign up with them andforget about trying to change their minds because you never will. You will drive yourself crazy, waste valuable time and energy and accomplish nothing. Forget it, move on and put your energy to better uses.

February 17th, 2009, 03:51 PM	#1
Travis Minchew New Boot Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 12	I need to know what you think? I know that we as Videographers have been an active part in changing what people, brides, think about videography. Videography is becoming as much as an importance as photography. I want to know what you think about this. At OurWeddingDay.com is a nice site, they put brides in contact with vendors. but I have a problem. I noticed that when the bride is looking for a photographer it gives her some options: Photographer budget $1,500 - $3,000 then goes up. Then right under the photographer it gives the bride an option for the videographer Videographer budget up to $1,000 My thoughts is... it states to the bride that you should pay more for the photographer and you should not have to pay that much for the videographer. wow... it is a little hard not to take that the wrong way. The website is very nice and works well. The website gave us a 14 day trial and the only problem we had was with this issue. They did not seam impressed to change this on their site, they said based off research is why they have the difference in price. Am I the only one reading this... seam to have an issue/problem with this? I would like to know what you think. A reprentative from the company asked me to let him know your response. Thank you for your time in reading this and comments. tminchew@msn.com

February 17th, 2009, 04:35 PM	#2
Josh Swan Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scarborough Me Posts: 186	Change price point The only package I have under $1000 is for raw footage. My prices are right along side the Photog listing. I think they definitely need to change the prices for the videographers! If they didn't I would think twice about advertising with them since they are not making your prices look good compared to what they are making the brides believe is the 'norm'. Not the most positive thing for a bride to see, clicking on a link for videographers under $1000 just to see that your prices are well over. That would make the illusion that you are highly overpriced (which is not the case) I don't know where and who they received their information from for the research, but it's almost insulting to good videographers to post such prices. I mean come on....what is this craigslist.

February 17th, 2009, 05:41 PM	#3
Travis Minchew New Boot Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 12	Thanks for your reply I encourage everyone to let me know what you think. I appreciate it.

February 18th, 2009, 05:30 PM	#10
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	while at it the bride can give her must take photo list to Uncle Harry. Hell more often than not he's got the same if not better equipment than the hired photog. See this is what really gets me. Now I've been around long enough to know and understand that video is usually the last thing to get and the first thing to go but come on. Oh wait, that's right. They can't hire me because they just spent 2 grand on a stretch Hummer limothat they'll ride in for all of about 45 minutes (house to church--church to reception) and they'll forget about the ride in 3 days, but hire a professional videographer to capture the most important day of their lives? Something they can keep and watch for their lives together, remember their grandparents and later their parents, something their kids can watch tooalso remember their family members with? Naw, we'll never watch it. I hate the way I look in videos. Maybe if you had someone that knows how to use a camera and editing system you wouldn't hate the way you look. Oh by the way, didn't your friends have a pro do the video? Ask them how they like it. I'm being a bit sarcastic here and a bit grumpy but it's never made sense to me. Even back in the 80's I got better excuses than some give me today. Ahh never mind me, I'm sick today and just feelin' feisty but I know there's some truth in what I say. __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

February 18th, 2009, 05:49 PM	#11
Matt Bishop Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: East Moline, IL Posts: 231	There's a lot of truth to what you say!!!! I'll keep it simple for what I see all the time. I've been fortunate to personally see more people book us in the beginning of their planning, but as far as the industry goes, it's still bad. Always the last thing to get if they still have room in their 'budget', but when they don't, it's the first thing they regret once the day is over!!!!!!! Matt __________________ www.mediainnovations-online.com www.mediainnovationsblog.com

February 17th, 2009, 05:56 PM	#4
Nicholas de Kock Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: KLD, South Africa Posts: 983	This is crazy! They are giving us a bad deal, I feel that we should stand together and petition against comments like that. Our equipment cost more than photographers, our edits take longer, we need monster workstations to handle all the data of HD and we employ staff to help with the shooting, in every sense we should be charging more than photographers. I don't even have a package for $1000.

February 18th, 2009, 12:19 AM	#5
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Research??? Sounds like Uncle Bob Cam pricing. I MIGHT shoot for that if we share genes or I've known you for a LOOOONG time. AND that's only if I like you... a lot... on a personal level... OK, maybe I'd stick a camera on a tripod and hand you a CD of the result... that's painless... except I'd be twitching because I know how much better a proper multicam documentary of the day would memorialize the most important day of many people's lives... With the economy as it is (and our local economy is pretty lousy), I'm considering lower priced packages, whatever pays the bills, but anything even close to the 1K mark would be "no frills". I'm close to a templated package that might make for a viable quick cut and swap files approach for the end product (for the typical short ceremony and fast reception), but... It makes for a REALLY low expectation to say "up to $1K", and for a site wanting to get you to advertise, they need to readjust their espectations... Valuing a vendor at 1/2-1/3 of what they are worth or at MOST 2/3rds... I'm not feeling the love. It's really a shame that people generally don't seem to know the difference between well shot video and "monkey cam" footage and set the bar so low.

February 18th, 2009, 01:19 AM	#6
Jason Robinson Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 1,997	Ditch them and go somewhere else. I have been lookging through a lot of sites and I came to one vendor's director web site. THE picture for videography was a consumer camera sitting on a POS tripod. I emailed the owner saying "you have got to be serious if you think this is videography" No response. And he won't be getting my money either.

February 18th, 2009, 02:18 PM	#8
Craig Terott Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 691	Obviously the site was set up by a former photographer.

February 18th, 2009, 03:20 PM	#9
Noel Lising Major Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 789	Here is another one, money saving tip offered by a wedding site. I know 1 & 2 are given but asking a friend is an open invitation. * Go for packages with one camera coverage * Pick a package with limited editing or none at all. * If you can't afford a professional video, ask a friend or 2 that own their own video cameras to shoot the day for you. Putting an unfamiliar camera in someone else's hands is useless. Professionals know what to shoot and how to shoot it. So, give your friend a list of events that you want footage of and how you want each shot, for the entire day. Example: o Pre-Ceremony: Close-up footage for 10-seconds of the different decorations.(altar arrangements, pew bows, wreath outside and unity candle) o The guys waiting. Ask the groom what he's thinking about. o The guests arriving (especially immediate family)

February 18th, 2009, 06:01 PM	#12
Philip Gioja Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Piper City, IL Posts: 350	I'm a little crazy I guess, and I'm in a funky market here, but I have a one camera package that we do for (barely) under $1000. I actually make about the same on my one cam package as I do on my two cam package because I shoot as many shows as I can myself. I don't have a high-end cushy lifestyle, but I feel like it's a good price for where I'm at right now, and the brides I work for love my work. Plus we do better with one camera than most of my competition in the area can do with two. Maybe I'm working too hard, but I'd rather be working (-:

February 18th, 2009, 07:14 PM	#13
Travis Minchew New Boot Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 12	Reply to Phillip Thank you for posting to this topic, I know there are some videographers who prices are under and up to $1,000, but this does not make it right for a website to say you should pay more for a photographer and videographers you should not have to pay as much. That is telling the bride , photographers should cost more. Our standard average booking for our company for an average bride is $2,000-$4,000 but we do have prices in our price structure that a bride can book us for around a $1,000, and ceremony only for about $500-$750. It is wrong for a website to give the option to brides saying that photographer budget $1,500-$3,000 and then right under the photographer it has the videographer only "0 up to $1,000" This is the topic of this thread.... I want to know what you guys think about the above paragraph. This company after they did not change or offer to change it, I told them I would post this topic on forums for videographers and let them know what their company's website does for videographer industry, and let them know what replys I get. I appreciate your comments on this issue and will let you know the outcome or progress, sure it is just one company, but it tells brides that videography is not as important. what is your thoughts?

February 18th, 2009, 07:17 PM	#14
Lukas Siewior Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lyndhurst, NJ, USA Posts: 408	we should create our own website - kinda yellowpages for wedding videogs with tips how to book a gig and make sure it's done the way they want it. with a a brake down how much work we do put in it and with examples why it is so important to have video at the wedding. i.e. www.bestweddingvideotips.com

February 18th, 2009, 09:09 PM	#15
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Those sites are out there. WEVA and 4evergroup both have site dedicated to videography business. IMO if anyone in any business needs a website to tell them how to book work after they've been in whatever business then I'm sorry to say they shouldn't be in business. Being in the video business requires more than being a good shooter and editor. It requires being a good businessperson. That means know where and how to get work, how to book it, how much to charge and charging for what. HOw to amortize your gear, knowing that you have overhead and expenses that need to be proportioned over the business you book, etc. Sorry if I sound harsh or mean or grumpy but when someone says to me "I booked a gig charged $1000 so I made $1000 on the job" it's all I can do to hold my tongue. We don't need another website to do this. Theres plenty of information here, on WEVA and 4evergroup. Now on to the OP question. It's easy. The people that run that site are idiots and place no value on video so they don't think anyone else should either. So the solution to the question is easy. Don't sign up with them andforget about trying to change their minds because you never will. You will drive yourself crazy, waste valuable time and energy and accomplish nothing. Forget it, move on and put your energy to better uses. __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don