I need to know what you think?

Philip Gioja · February 19th, 2009, 12:01 AM

Travis, I tend to agree with Don on the response to the website's post. The 'who's more valuable' question has been around for a long time. I think the answer is always going to be 'it depends on what the bride wants', and hopefully we are educating our brides to want a higher quality video, because they'll be glad they did ten or twenty years down the road.

I guess I posted what I did because I feel like brides are always going to be spending less on video than photography, and if I can create a low-cost, high-quality product for them that I can still make a good profit on, then everyone wins.

Jason Robinson · February 19th, 2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Minchew

...sure it is just one company, but it tells brides that videography is not as important.

IT is NOT one company. This is just one of MANY companies I have seen that have cheapass consumer camera pictures next to the "Videography" title, or have videography lumped in with the DJ (WFT???? DJs?), or have un-equitable price structure, etc.

Mark Holland · February 19th, 2009, 10:48 AM

Travis,

To answer the original post's question...

I find it hard to believe that pricing goes "up to $1000" in anyone's market. If they feel the need to quote prices, it really should be a range like was done with the photographer's pricing. Then it should be a range from the least expensive package they can find to the most expensive package they can find. Around here, I've seen $795 up through $3500, with most packages in the $1200 to $1500 range. However, if I were going to publish this on a web site, I'd likely do a more exhaustive price search before I publish.

Just my opinion!

Mark

Travis Minchew · February 23rd, 2009, 11:57 AM

When you have a website and you are hooking up brides with vendors and you have photography and videography next to each other with the option for photographers "the first option" has $1500-$3,000 and then right under photography there is videography and they have "up to $1,000" THIS SAYS TO THE BRIDE ... You should pay more for photographers and videographers should cost less.. This is an insult to our industry. This is my opinion. What is yours? This is the Topic of this Thread. What do you think?

I will send these replies to this company, because they wanted to see what you guys thought.

Travis Minchew · February 23rd, 2009, 12:07 PM

Phillip wrote: "I guess I posted what I did because I feel like brides are always going to be spending less on video than photography, and if I can create a low-cost, high-quality product for them that I can still make a good profit on, then everyone wins. "

I highly disagree with "feeling that brides are always going to be spending less on video than photography"

In our business we are have brides spend more money on video than on photography. The industry and the way brides look at videography is changing and websites like the one I am talking about is telling brides that photography is more important and should cost more.

We even had a few weddings with only video? wow! We could not believe it.
The past 3 years we have had brides book us before the venue, photographer, cake, florist, or dress was chosen. Was it this way 5 years ago? no. Video would be the last to get called or booked. We (as a whole - videographers) have worked on our product and style and have helped change the image and view of videography. Websites like the one I am talking about on this forum is only one example of a company saying photography is more important than videography. this is not right.

Travis Minchew · February 23rd, 2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Bloom

Those sites are out there. WEVA and 4evergroup both have site dedicated to videography business. IMO if anyone in any business needs a website to tell them how to book work after they've been in whatever business then I'm sorry to say they shouldn't be in business. Being in the video business requires more than being a good shooter and editor. It requires being a good businessperson. That means know where and how to get work, how to book it, how much to charge and charging for what. HOw to amortize your gear, knowing that you have overhead and expenses that need to be proportioned over the business you book, etc. Sorry if I sound harsh or mean or grumpy but when someone says to me "I booked a gig charged $1000 so I made $1000 on the job" it's all I can do to hold my tongue. We don't need another website to do this. Theres plenty of information here, on WEVA and 4evergroup.
Now on to the OP question. It's easy. The people that run that site are idiots and place no value on video so they don't think anyone else should either. So the solution to the question is easy. Don't sign up with them andforget about trying to change their minds because you never will. You will drive yourself crazy, waste valuable time and energy and accomplish nothing. Forget it, move on and put your energy to better uses.

I dont think I am wasting time on this, this company is not making me lose money or business. I think anytime I can promote, Videography (our industry) it helps everyone... even if it is just one website saying photography should cost more. Thanks for your post though... The only reason I even posted this is to here what you guys thought? sorry of your time got wasted.

Dave Blackhurst · February 23rd, 2009, 11:30 PM

Travis -
I think the ONE thing they should do is at least put a "starting value". Saying "up to $1K" makes it sound like you should hold out for some bozo who will shoot for nothing. I guess we've all done a "freebie" or two to get some experience (that's the first one I ever did, was just set up a couple cams for a friend, rough edit, they loved it anyway...), but that shouldn't be an expectation...

The problem with a site that devalues a vendor that they are asking to advertise is that they are saying "you stink, but we want your money", and I'd rather not try to educate them about basic business.

I think the suggestion of checking around the market (whether local, national, international, or whatever, it can make a HUGE difference in prices, quality, and so on), and THEN, based on REAL reasearch, they post a range. I can guarantee that if they took into account some of the high end video guys that strut their stuff here (deservedly so!!), the top end would be above those photog quotes... and the quality would be well worth it.

You've got a pretty good sampling from the regulars here - I don't know that any of us would say "how low we would go" in the current economy but it's safe to say I'm not working TOO cheap, and even in a bad economy in an area deeply affected by said economy, I'm shooting for a minimum of $1k...

That said, if someone says it's a 15 minute ceremony followed immediately by a quick simple reception of an hour or two, and it's just down the street a piece, I'm flexible (and I did a couple like that on "last minute" calls, wouldn't mind doing those regularly - fast, easy, in and out, easy to edit too!).

There are a lot of variables, but any site that wants to attract advertisements from vendors should take a reasonable sampling and post some realistic numbers.... "up to $1k" is insulting and rather silly, IMO.

Hopefully not too far off topic, but...
Has anyone ever done an accounting on "percentage of budget"? I'm thinking someone spending a couple thousand on a quickie wedding might still want photo and video, but will either have a small budget or use a significant percentage on those things. Compare that to say a big destination wedding, and the numbers might be a bit different. Long cultural weddings would be far more than the above protestant affair... I would think that an evaluation of how much of the total budget should be set aside for specific vendors might be more practical for the planning stages...

Travis Minchew · February 24th, 2009, 05:02 PM

The website wants to hear what you guys think about prices? they want to know basic price breakdown of our services. They are wanting to change the website for photography and videography. if you look in the previous posts... photography is $1,500-$3,000 then videography starts at "up to $1,000"

What are your price breakdowns?

I think they should place no budget there... or at least make it $1,500 -$3,000 just like the photographers... or add "up to $1,000" to the photographers so both are the same... and it does not basically have different prices for videography and photography and it does not show them being "you should pay more for_______________" than for ____________"

Your Comments?
(One more day and I will email all the post you guys have made to the owners of the website... thanks for your time and comments.

Philip Gioja · February 24th, 2009, 10:45 PM

I think it is a helpful service to brides to have some kind of idea of pricing, so I'm not dead against websites having dollar amounts listed. Sounds like you're talking 1000-3000 or so for your basic to mid range packages.

Bryan Daugherty · February 24th, 2009, 11:06 PM

If you ask me, I think they should place the photos and videos on even footing at least ($1500-$3000.) You are absolutely correct about hubs like these devaluing our services to brides, I know of one site that breaks it down further with videography pricing blocks at every $500 starting at "less than $500" and I can't tell you how many quote requests we have received from that site asking for $250-$500 services. I try to educate those leads but have to turn away most of them, several reevaluate their budget but it does us a terrible disservice when the wedding hub sites devalue our work before we even get the lead...

Jason Robinson · February 25th, 2009, 06:21 AM

I have been getting updates as a result of my free listing with BigDaySmallWorld.com. Unfortunately, they had a picture of a cheap handycam style camera for their "Videography" section. I complained a few times about the completely un-professional look of that picture, and finally on my most recent complaint someone read the email and changes the picture!

Chances are, the site is a one man shop so he is responsive to complaints from potential customers.

I have a feeling this hub you are dealing with might react the same. If nothing else, it will serve as a good indicator for how responsive and customer oriented they are. If they don't change the price range then shake the dust off your feet and leave! If they do change to meet your suggestions, then they may not be a bad company to look into.

Travis Minchew · February 25th, 2009, 11:29 AM

In January we spend 80% of our marketing for the year and I was waiting to see if Ourweddingday.com would make the change right away and see how they respond to their customers. I wanted to see them take action faster, that would have said something more about them. BUT they are making changes and are willing to listed and change.

thanks for yor comments.

Travis Minchew · February 25th, 2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip Gioja

I think it is a helpful service to brides to have some kind of idea of pricing, so I'm not dead against websites having dollar amounts listed. Sounds like you're talking 1000-3000 or so for your basic to mid range packages.

Phillip, I know that it is helpful to know the brides budget... but that is not what I am talking about. It is helpful to know the brides budget... of course... but it is NOT helpful for a website to have different prices for photography and videography with photography. It is telling brides that you should pay less for video... That is the point.

Chris Davis · February 25th, 2009, 01:02 PM

I think this has a lot to do with the history of wedding video, which more often than not is a stationary camera on a tripod at the back of the sanctuary. Basically a security video.

I don't take bookings for weddings anymore because in my area that's what people still expect - an individual with a Sony Handycam recording only the ceremony for $250.

Too many times I've told brides my starting rate (a ridiculously low $1500) and have to explain why it costs "so much". If they hang on long enough to view a sample on my website, they always say "I had no idea you could do that!" But they still pass on me because they were expecting to pay $250.

The style of wedding video most here provide is in a completely different category than the "videographer" on OurWeddingDay.com.

EDIT: I just looked at their article about selecting a videographer, and that seemed up-to-date ("Unlike the old, clunky days of home movies, videographers can shoot digitally, make montages, and add special effects, themes, narration, and even old stills of the two of you into the story.") The article also says "It will also take out an additional 5-10% of your entire budget." Since the average wedding budget is $20k+, that means a videographer would costs $1k to $2k, according to their own article. Seems kind of silly they'd place a cap of $1k on the videographer budget.

I'd certainly point out that little bit of contradiction on their website.

February 19th, 2009, 10:48 AM	#18
Mark Holland Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Central North Carolina (Raleigh, Durham, & surrounding areas) Posts: 301	Travis, To answer the original post's question... I find it hard to believe that pricing goes "up to $1000" in anyone's market. If they feel the need to quote prices, it really should be a range like was done with the photographer's pricing. Then it should be a range from the least expensive package they can find to the most expensive package they can find. Around here, I've seen $795 up through $3500, with most packages in the $1200 to $1500 range. However, if I were going to publish this on a web site, I'd likely do a more exhaustive price search before I publish. Just my opinion! Mark __________________ These are my own opinions, based on my own mistakes...

February 23rd, 2009, 11:57 AM	#19
Travis Minchew New Boot Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 12	Here is my point, to see if you agree? When you have a website and you are hooking up brides with vendors and you have photography and videography next to each other with the option for photographers "the first option" has $1500-$3,000 and then right under photography there is videography and they have "up to $1,000" THIS SAYS TO THE BRIDE ... You should pay more for photographers and videographers should cost less.. This is an insult to our industry. This is my opinion. What is yours? This is the Topic of this Thread. What do you think? I will send these replies to this company, because they wanted to see what you guys thought.

February 23rd, 2009, 12:07 PM	#20
Travis Minchew New Boot Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 12	Reply to Phillip Phillip wrote: "I guess I posted what I did because I feel like brides are always going to be spending less on video than photography, and if I can create a low-cost, high-quality product for them that I can still make a good profit on, then everyone wins. " I highly disagree with "feeling that brides are always going to be spending less on video than photography" In our business we are have brides spend more money on video than on photography. The industry and the way brides look at videography is changing and websites like the one I am talking about is telling brides that photography is more important and should cost more. We even had a few weddings with only video? wow! We could not believe it. The past 3 years we have had brides book us before the venue, photographer, cake, florist, or dress was chosen. Was it this way 5 years ago? no. Video would be the last to get called or booked. We (as a whole - videographers) have worked on our product and style and have helped change the image and view of videography. Websites like the one I am talking about on this forum is only one example of a company saying photography is more important than videography. this is not right.

February 24th, 2009, 05:02 PM	#23
Travis Minchew New Boot Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 12	Ok... new update need to hear from you. The website wants to hear what you guys think about prices? they want to know basic price breakdown of our services. They are wanting to change the website for photography and videography. if you look in the previous posts... photography is $1,500-$3,000 then videography starts at "up to $1,000" What are your price breakdowns? I think they should place no budget there... or at least make it $1,500 -$3,000 just like the photographers... or add "up to $1,000" to the photographers so both are the same... and it does not basically have different prices for videography and photography and it does not show them being "you should pay more for_______________" than for ____________" Your Comments? (One more day and I will email all the post you guys have made to the owners of the website... thanks for your time and comments.

February 24th, 2009, 11:06 PM	#25
Bryan Daugherty Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lexington, Ky - USA Posts: 552	If you ask me, I think they should place the photos and videos on even footing at least ($1500-$3000.) You are absolutely correct about hubs like these devaluing our services to brides, I know of one site that breaks it down further with videography pricing blocks at every $500 starting at "less than $500" and I can't tell you how many quote requests we have received from that site asking for $250-$500 services. I try to educate those leads but have to turn away most of them, several reevaluate their budget but it does us a terrible disservice when the wedding hub sites devalue our work before we even get the lead... __________________ 3x-HD1000u - Ikan 8000HD- custom i7 PC - Vegas Pro 13 and 11 64 bit - Premiere Pro CS4 - and a whole mess of other equipment...

February 19th, 2009, 12:01 AM	#16
Philip Gioja Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Piper City, IL Posts: 350	Travis, I tend to agree with Don on the response to the website's post. The 'who's more valuable' question has been around for a long time. I think the answer is always going to be 'it depends on what the bride wants', and hopefully we are educating our brides to want a higher quality video, because they'll be glad they did ten or twenty years down the road. I guess I posted what I did because I feel like brides are always going to be spending less on video than photography, and if I can create a low-cost, high-quality product for them that I can still make a good profit on, then everyone wins.

February 23rd, 2009, 11:30 PM	#22
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Travis - I think the ONE thing they should do is at least put a "starting value". Saying "up to $1K" makes it sound like you should hold out for some bozo who will shoot for nothing. I guess we've all done a "freebie" or two to get some experience (that's the first one I ever did, was just set up a couple cams for a friend, rough edit, they loved it anyway...), but that shouldn't be an expectation... The problem with a site that devalues a vendor that they are asking to advertise is that they are saying "you stink, but we want your money", and I'd rather not try to educate them about basic business. I think the suggestion of checking around the market (whether local, national, international, or whatever, it can make a HUGE difference in prices, quality, and so on), and THEN, based on REAL reasearch, they post a range. I can guarantee that if they took into account some of the high end video guys that strut their stuff here (deservedly so!!), the top end would be above those photog quotes... and the quality would be well worth it. You've got a pretty good sampling from the regulars here - I don't know that any of us would say "how low we would go" in the current economy but it's safe to say I'm not working TOO cheap, and even in a bad economy in an area deeply affected by said economy, I'm shooting for a minimum of $1k... That said, if someone says it's a 15 minute ceremony followed immediately by a quick simple reception of an hour or two, and it's just down the street a piece, I'm flexible (and I did a couple like that on "last minute" calls, wouldn't mind doing those regularly - fast, easy, in and out, easy to edit too!). There are a lot of variables, but any site that wants to attract advertisements from vendors should take a reasonable sampling and post some realistic numbers.... "up to $1k" is insulting and rather silly, IMO. Hopefully not too far off topic, but... Has anyone ever done an accounting on "percentage of budget"? I'm thinking someone spending a couple thousand on a quickie wedding might still want photo and video, but will either have a small budget or use a significant percentage on those things. Compare that to say a big destination wedding, and the numbers might be a bit different. Long cultural weddings would be far more than the above protestant affair... I would think that an evaluation of how much of the total budget should be set aside for specific vendors might be more practical for the planning stages...

February 24th, 2009, 10:45 PM	#24
Philip Gioja Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Piper City, IL Posts: 350	I think it is a helpful service to brides to have some kind of idea of pricing, so I'm not dead against websites having dollar amounts listed. Sounds like you're talking 1000-3000 or so for your basic to mid range packages.

February 25th, 2009, 06:21 AM	#26
Jason Robinson Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 1,997	A wedding hub actually changed! I have been getting updates as a result of my free listing with BigDaySmallWorld.com. Unfortunately, they had a picture of a cheap handycam style camera for their "Videography" section. I complained a few times about the completely un-professional look of that picture, and finally on my most recent complaint someone read the email and changes the picture! Chances are, the site is a one man shop so he is responsive to complaints from potential customers. I have a feeling this hub you are dealing with might react the same. If nothing else, it will serve as a good indicator for how responsive and customer oriented they are. If they don't change the price range then shake the dust off your feet and leave! If they do change to meet your suggestions, then they may not be a bad company to look into.

February 25th, 2009, 11:29 AM	#27
Travis Minchew New Boot Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 12	Jason you are right... In January we spend 80% of our marketing for the year and I was waiting to see if Ourweddingday.com would make the change right away and see how they respond to their customers. I wanted to see them take action faster, that would have said something more about them. BUT they are making changes and are willing to listed and change. thanks for yor comments.

February 25th, 2009, 01:02 PM	#29
Chris Davis Trustee Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Willmar, MN Posts: 1,400	I think this has a lot to do with the history of wedding video, which more often than not is a stationary camera on a tripod at the back of the sanctuary. Basically a security video. I don't take bookings for weddings anymore because in my area that's what people still expect - an individual with a Sony Handycam recording only the ceremony for $250. Too many times I've told brides my starting rate (a ridiculously low $1500) and have to explain why it costs "so much". If they hang on long enough to view a sample on my website, they always say "I had no idea you could do that!" But they still pass on me because they were expecting to pay $250. The style of wedding video most here provide is in a completely different category than the "videographer" on OurWeddingDay.com. EDIT: I just looked at their article about selecting a videographer, and that seemed up-to-date ("Unlike the old, clunky days of home movies, videographers can shoot digitally, make montages, and add special effects, themes, narration, and even old stills of the two of you into the story.") The article also says "It will also take out an additional 5-10% of your entire budget." Since the average wedding budget is $20k+, that means a videographer would costs $1k to $2k, according to their own article. Seems kind of silly they'd place a cap of $1k on the videographer budget. I'd certainly point out that little bit of contradiction on their website.