New camera for smooth transition into HD...

[Lukas Siewior]

Hi Guys,

I was just thinking (which doesn't happen too often) that maybe I could buy Canon HV30 as my first HD cam. Circuit City is going out of business and they're giving them away with 30% off.

I was thinking how could I use it in the weddings - add wide lens & lights and use it as b-cam when big HD cam comes in? Maybe later use it with Brevis?

I'm doing lots of action vids (racing cars) and some corporate vids - how useful is it gonna be in that field?

The main question would be - is it wise to match it later with Sony FX1000 (that's my target camera for HD to purchase later this year)? or should I stick with Canon brand (A1)? Is there Sony matching camera to HV30?

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

[Mike Brice]

From what I saw when I was at Circuit City their 30 percent off prices were still more expensive than B&H.

FYI

Mike

Originally Posted by Lukas Siewior

Hi Guys,

I was just thinking (which doesn't happen too often) that maybe I could buy Canon HV30 as my first HD cam. Circuit City is going out of business and they're giving them away with 30% off.

I was thinking how could I use it in the weddings - add wide lens & lights and use it as b-cam when big HD cam comes in? Maybe later use it with Brevis?

I'm doing lots of action vids (racing cars) and some corporate vids - how useful is it gonna be in that field?

The main question would be - is it wise to match it later with Sony FX1000 (that's my target camera for HD to purchase later this year)? or should I stick with Canon brand (A1)? Is there Sony matching camera to HV30?

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

[Mike Petrucco]

Tis true. I ran up to circuit city last weekend to check it out. The HV30 was $100 more than anywhere on the web. And that was marked as 25% off. I think they must have pushed everything up to list prices and then applied the clearance discounts.

[Lukas Siewior]

Originally Posted by Mike Petrucco

Tis true. I ran up to circuit city last weekend to check it out. The HV30 was $100 more than anywhere on the web. And that was marked as 25% off. I think they must have pushed everything up to list prices and then applied the clearance discounts.

They did indeed.

But lets talk about the camera itself - is it worth to get it and then add Sony cam?

[Randy Panado]

HV30 is a great camcorder in enough light. For your application, sounds like it would work good for wide shots and some tights if lighted enough. For corporate video, if you have enough lighting for the speaker, it should come out fine.

Keep in mind that you have to do the exposure "trick" to the HV30 camera to lock the exposure. As far as matching footage, if you can nail the white balance and exposure on both cameras, it shouldn't be too hard in post to match it up. I'm not sure what NLE you're using though.

If I had a choice though, I'd grab a cheap HV20. They can be had in the $300-$450, sometimes cheaper.

[Jason Robinson]

First off, I have no experience in what you are asking, and I've been considering the exact same thing.

Secondly, I have a friend that I convinced to buy the HV30. Funny story.....

So he had his first baby, a girl this summer. Before the baby was born he runs out and buys a Sony DMC...something-or-other handy cam piece of crap cam for like $300-400. He asks me about cameras (after he buys) and the very first thing I say is "you bought one of those handy cams didn't you?" He gives me the sheepish... "yeah." And do a quick little schpeal about sensor size, quality of glass etc, and then say "just buy the HV30." Yeah it is twice the cost, yeah it is still tape, but the quality will not even be in the same league as the Sony handy-whatever you got. He doesn't have an HD TV, or an HD / BD player. But when he does, he will have all of his footage in HD.

And he loves it.

But now back to your post. I have been thinking the same thing. Why bust my butt to put $3K into a high end HD cam FIRST, when it might not be a bad idea to buy a low end HD cam first to test my NLE & work flow. Then get used to using HD, see what it can do, see if it really is "that much better" for what I need my cams to do. And then go wit ha higher end cam.

regarding matching footage, I find that I have to always match footage between my two GL2 cams anyway. There is enough differences in lighting at a ceremony between the aisle and the alter that I'm ALWAYS CC-ing in post any way. I doubt the different in camera brand would cause me that much extra work in post.

[Hubert Duijzer]

Originally Posted by Lukas Siewior

I'm doing lots of action vids (racing cars)

Do not buy an HV if you plan to use the cam inside a racecar. It cannot handle any type of vibration. You're footage will be unusable.

I have an HV20 myself and for me it is a really great camera for home/vacation/B-cam stuff. Only the CMOS chip can't handle vibrations and shaky stuff.

[Lukas Siewior]

Originally Posted by Hubert Duijzer

Do not buy an HV if you plan to use the cam inside a racecar. It cannot handle any type of vibration. You're footage will be unusable.

I have an HV20 myself and for me it is a really great camera for home/vacation/B-cam stuff. Only the CMOS chip can't handle vibrations and shaky stuff.

Bummer. That's what I was afraid off the most.

In that case what else is out there to do the job? And not to kill my wallet? And to be able to use it in semi-pro projects?

As far as nle I'm using both premiere pro cs3 and fcp.

Thanks for all the info so far?

[Tripp Woelfel]

Originally Posted by Hubert Duijzer

Do not buy an HV if you plan to use the cam inside a racecar. It cannot handle any type of vibration. You're footage will be unusable.

It's true that CMOS's dreaded rolling shutter effect limits the conditions under which good footage can be acquired, but don't immediately rule out their ability to function mounted to a race car. It all depends upon how securely you can attach the cam to the car and the amount of vibration the car generates.

I mount SD DV cams inside race cars nearly every week during the racing season. These are Late Model and Mini Stocks running on a 3/8 mile asphalt oval. It's a smooth and fast track so generally G forces are more of an issue that shocks through the suspension. I use a couple of Canon ZR900s and an old Sony TRV-19 which both work very well. I tried a Panny GS-400 and I think that something in the optical image stabilization (which was turned off) actually exaggerated the vibration making the footage unusable.

I tried mounting my HV10 to a snowmobile last Saturday. I cannot tell you how bad the rolling shutter effect was because the there was so much vibration that nothing could have captured any good footage.

My point is, don't dismiss the HV30, or any CMOS camera out of hand for this purpose. Some research on the rolling shutter effect and some consideration of the conditions you wish to mount the camera in would be a good course of action. If you want to mount in a WRC car or ride along with Robby Gordon in the Dakar, you might just be out of luck.

Any HDV camera small enough to mount in a race car will likely have a CMOS sensor. There are options in the SD realm, but...

[Lukas Siewior]

Originally Posted by Tripp Woelfel

My point is, don't dismiss the HV30, or any CMOS camera out of hand for this purpose. Some research on the rolling shutter effect and some consideration of the conditions you wish to mount the camera in would be a good course of action. If you want to mount in a WRC car or ride along with Robby Gordon in the Dakar, you might just be out of luck.

Any HDV camera small enough to mount in a race car will likely have a CMOS sensor. There are options in the SD realm, but...

Thx for info. I use my Sony HC28 w/ wide angle lens for all the in-car action shots and it works brilliant. It's mounted on a suction mount from filmtools. The image is rock solid - unless the driver start doing burnouts or other crazy stuff. Here in an example: D2Forged Teaser on Vimeo. Now all I have to do is get CMOS camera to play with it and test it against vibrations.

[Bryan Daugherty]

Not to derail but a quick note on most of the Circuit City's going out of business. One of the evening news shows did a special not too long ago where they revealed that the closing stores are actually handed over to a liquidation company that jacks the prices way over MSRP and then discounts the inflated price. Couple this with the fact that you cannot return any merchandise purchased from them and some of the merchandise is sold without a valid warranty, I would buy gear from them cautiously and with great skepticism.

Do you know anyone in your area that might have a HV30 and do a test run with you? I have gotten good use out of my SONY CMOS cam but I never tried mounting it in a speeding vehicle, either. Good luck and let us know what works for you.

[Hubert Duijzer]

Originally Posted by Tripp Woelfel

My point is, don't dismiss the HV30, or any CMOS camera out of hand for this purpose. Some research on the rolling shutter effect and some consideration of the conditions you wish to mount the camera in would be a good course of action. If you want to mount in a WRC car or ride along with Robby Gordon in the Dakar, you might just be out of luck.

Any HDV camera small enough to mount in a race car will likely have a CMOS sensor. There are options in the SD realm, but...

I tried and failed and so did a lot of other people. I heard some good things about the Canon FS100, mounted in rallycars, wich seems to have a CCD.

edit: It looks like the FS is a SD cam, sorry.

[Lukas Siewior]

Originally Posted by Bryan Daugherty

Not to derail but a quick note on most of the Circuit City's going out of business. One of the evening news shows did a special not too long ago where they revealed that the closing stores are actually handed over to a liquidation company that jacks the prices way over MSRP and then discounts the inflated price. Couple this with the fact that you cannot return any merchandise purchased from them and some of the merchandise is sold without a valid warranty, I would buy gear from them cautiously and with great skepticism.

Do you know anyone in your area that might have a HV30 and do a test run with you? I have gotten good use out of my SONY CMOS cam but I never tried mounting it in a speeding vehicle, either. Good luck and let us know what works for you.

I'm fully aware of CC situation and their "deals". Good thing that I know a manager at local store, so I'll know about every possible "trick" they might use against me.

Now all I have to do is try some CMOS camera.

Another question though - Does Canon HDV is compatible with Sony HDV? Can I use Canon's cam as a deck for tapes from Sony?

[Tripp Woelfel]

Originally Posted by Lukas Siewior

It's mounted on a suction mount from filmtools.

This isn't going to be the most stable mounting platform and will exacerbate the rolling shutter problem. It may be the only mounting option for the Corvette in your clip, but you can see significant vibration on the in-car footage.

I favor the Manfrotto Super Clamp system clamped to some part of the race car's tubular framing. Very solid. You can see here at about 10:58 that the camera didn't move even when the car hit the wall. You can also see here the stability of the platform under normal race conditions.

I believe the camera used for these shots was the Sony TRV-19.

Your best option might be to use an SD cam and up-res with software in post. It won't be HD but it may be the most practical option. I've long wondered about available options using HD pencil cams and either solid state or disk recorders, or RF transmission systems like networks use. I've not researched this because they just sound expensive.

[Lukas Siewior]

Originally Posted by Tripp Woelfel

I favor the Manfrotto Super Clamp system clamped to some part of the race car's tubular framing.

Where I can get a system like that?

Originally Posted by Tripp Woelfel

Your best option might be to use an SD cam and up-res with software in post. It won't be HD but it may be the most practical option. I've long wondered about available options using HD pencil cams and either solid state or disk recorders, or RF transmission systems like networks use. I've not researched this because they just sound expensive.

I was looking at HD lipstick cams - there are very few manufacturers and the prices start at $7-8k :-(