I know I shouldn't be disturbed, but I am at DVinfo.net

Jeff Harper · January 30th, 2009, 02:10 AM

I just turned away a bride who tried to strong arm me. I really wanted the job, because it is on a Friday in May, and their expectations were low, at least thats what I guessed.

I had offered her two cams for ceremony only for an embarrasing price, shot with HD.

Now mind you she was sent to me by a very enthusiastic customer who talks us up every chance she gets so we came highly recommended.

I sent the last quote to them, and they said they were about to go on a cruise and would decide when they return.

Just received their decision. If we couldn't come up with a better deal, they would have a friend do it.

I replied " I understand, if you need anything else please let me know".

This is the first time I have had a bride come out and say that. I must say it was disturbing.

John Knight · January 30th, 2009, 03:13 AM

You don't need client's like that. Move on to the next one...

Don Bloom · January 30th, 2009, 06:36 AM

Jeff,
when I have a potenial client say that (or similar) to me I basically tell them "great, good luck to you" and move on all the while thanking my lucky stars I did NOT book the job. While we all want the job to make the money sometimes NOT booking it is really the best thing to do. Ever have a B&G you live with forever? Or at least it seems like it.
If you already gave them a deal but reducing you normal price and they came back and demanded more, of course I would want to know what it is they wanted, but it is generally something unreasonable, so cut them loose and if you can't book someone else to fill the date then so be it.
I just really don't let it bother me. After all, you aren't going to book all of them all the time.
Some will, some won't, so what. Who's NEXT!
Don

Lukas Siewior · January 30th, 2009, 06:55 AM

Don't worry Jeff. I was feeling similar when I dropped customers referred by a friend. Just their expectations were much bigger for less money then I could agree for.

It'll pass as soon as you get another customer for the same weekend at your terms.

Vito DeFilippo · January 30th, 2009, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

I sent the last quote to them, and they said they were about to go on a cruise and would decide when they return.

Just received their decision. If we couldn't come up with a better deal, they would have a friend do it.

Oh, they couldn't book with you unless you make no money, and yet they have the gall to tell you they're about to go on a cruise four months before their wedding. They're obviously poor.

Move on, and thank the stars you didn't pick up this grinder client.

Jeff Harper · January 30th, 2009, 07:25 AM

Thanks guys.

Noel Lising · January 30th, 2009, 07:52 AM

Jeff,

You made the right decision. People think Wedding Videography is easy and Uncle Bob can do it, then by all means let them.

Mathieu Ghekiere · January 30th, 2009, 08:41 AM

Jeff, I'm by all means not an expert on wedding videography, but sometimes we have the same problem with other clients.
Don't worry, you made the right decision.

If you would have lowered your price you would:
- earned basically nothing, or not enough.
- you would agree that every price you make is open for negotiation. With other words, if you would do it, that bride will tell her friends how cheap you are, and those friends will come to you with the same low price / high quality expectations.

You made the right choice, and in this business, people always think we can work for nothing. And our productions company has noticed that the more 'presents' you give a client (little extras you do free of charge that they didn't ask for to surprise them, etc. ...), the greedier they become, because they expect more and more for free, and if you at one moment say: "Sorry, but this will cost you extra.", suddenly they are with their arms up in the air. We've been through it too.
We made extra trailers for a company which they hadn't paid extra for. Instead of being happy, they said they liked it, but kept asking changes and changes to these trailers, and expecting to pay nothing for it. We made the changes they wanted, and then they would come back with other changes again, and there we said: "Sorry, but if you want that, I will have to charge, because I can't keep working at these - free - trailers for nothing." They suddenly thought it was expensive that we asked money to make some alterations to a trailer we had already changed a couple of times at their request.

Now, we learned not to give away 'presents' anymore for nothing, because we only get a wrong reaction.

On the short term, you maybe lost a client. But it was an unresonable client, and believe me, you are better of without those. The comment about the cruise just makes it harder to swallow.

Noel Lising · January 30th, 2009, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathieu Ghekiere

J
On the short term, you maybe lost a client. But it was an unresonable client, and believe me, you are better of without those. The comment about the cruise just makes it harder to swallow.

I second that. Which reminded me of a Craig Ad, wanting a Videographer to shoot their wedding/edit for $ 300. Their selling point is you get to meet the photographer they hired possibly get business from him & what breaks me is they have their own wedding website to boost.

Carl Wilky · January 30th, 2009, 09:08 AM

Hi Jeff,

I was just in the same situation not even a week ago. I had a client that was low balling me and they wanted everything and the moon for next to nothing. They told me that they would let me know of their decision by the end of the week. After losing a few hours of sleep for giving in so much i decided to send them an email to let them know that another couple was interested for the same date and they had picked a bigger package but i was allowing them to either match their price or i was forced to pass it along.

I haven't heard from them since.

I know at first you think you lost money by turing the client down but as others have mentioned if you start cutting deals with couples you'll become your own competitor which isn't a good idea at all.

See the positive side to this story is now i will have more time to work on the good paying customers who value the work i do.

Shaun Roemich · January 30th, 2009, 09:47 AM

I don't do weddings, but there is ONE TRUTH in video: No news spreads faster than the lowest price you've EVER charged, regardless of how early in your career it was, how much "in kind" you also received or how close the recipient of your good will was to you.

PS. That's not a "client"; you build a relationship with a client. That's a customer, at best...
PPS. That's not even a customer, that's a tire kicker.

Scott Hayes · January 30th, 2009, 12:44 PM

i just got the same thing, except for photography. they were going to have a friend shoot everything else except for group shots, told them sorry, my half day package is the lowest I offer. see ya!

Jeff Harper · January 30th, 2009, 01:31 PM

All in all, especially after your feedback, I do feel better. A few weeks ago I raised my rates a couple of hundred dollars, and my conversion rate is same as before I did.

I've been complaining all year about my backlog of edits, and part of the reason I raised my prices was to slow things down a bit.

It is so true that that kind of client is usually the most difficult also. More and more I'm glad she's moved on.

I tend to offer discounts for Fridays, but that is only contributing to the problem of the backlog. It sure did last year.

Scott Adams · January 30th, 2009, 02:07 PM

Ok... maybe I should make a separate thread for this... but does anyone have something like a top 10 list of reasons a B&G shouldn't let Uncle Bob do their wedding videography? Educating the B&G's before the DEAL OR NO DEAL PHASE can't hurt.

Chris Estrella · January 30th, 2009, 02:17 PM

Maybe my story doesn't fit in this category as B&G's never really threatened me to say "lower your rate or we won't book you", but I still feel like sharing. I had two potential clients that were interested in booking me, one of whom actually confirmed (and was going to have their wedding on a small cruise too), but I didn't meet them to sign a contract or take a deposit.

Both said they were on a budget, both later said they were going to have family members do it and not hire me because of their low budget.

Months later, I stumble upon other wedding videographer websites and what do I see? They're wedding video highlights with those same potential clients. They were with different videographers with rates much higher than mine. I'll admit, they probably produce higher quality videos than I can, but that didn't seem to be a concern to them.

How's THAT for disturbing?

January 30th, 2009, 02:10 AM	#1
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	I know I shouldn't be disturbed, but I am I just turned away a bride who tried to strong arm me. I really wanted the job, because it is on a Friday in May, and their expectations were low, at least thats what I guessed. I had offered her two cams for ceremony only for an embarrasing price, shot with HD. Now mind you she was sent to me by a very enthusiastic customer who talks us up every chance she gets so we came highly recommended. I sent the last quote to them, and they said they were about to go on a cruise and would decide when they return. Just received their decision. If we couldn't come up with a better deal, they would have a friend do it. I replied " I understand, if you need anything else please let me know". This is the first time I have had a bride come out and say that. I must say it was disturbing.

January 30th, 2009, 08:41 AM	#8
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	Jeff, I'm by all means not an expert on wedding videography, but sometimes we have the same problem with other clients. Don't worry, you made the right decision. If you would have lowered your price you would: - earned basically nothing, or not enough. - you would agree that every price you make is open for negotiation. With other words, if you would do it, that bride will tell her friends how cheap you are, and those friends will come to you with the same low price / high quality expectations. You made the right choice, and in this business, people always think we can work for nothing. And our productions company has noticed that the more 'presents' you give a client (little extras you do free of charge that they didn't ask for to surprise them, etc. ...), the greedier they become, because they expect more and more for free, and if you at one moment say: "Sorry, but this will cost you extra.", suddenly they are with their arms up in the air. We've been through it too. We made extra trailers for a company which they hadn't paid extra for. Instead of being happy, they said they liked it, but kept asking changes and changes to these trailers, and expecting to pay nothing for it. We made the changes they wanted, and then they would come back with other changes again, and there we said: "Sorry, but if you want that, I will have to charge, because I can't keep working at these - free - trailers for nothing." They suddenly thought it was expensive that we asked money to make some alterations to a trailer we had already changed a couple of times at their request. Now, we learned not to give away 'presents' anymore for nothing, because we only get a wrong reaction. On the short term, you maybe lost a client. But it was an unresonable client, and believe me, you are better of without those. The comment about the cruise just makes it harder to swallow. __________________ http://productionsofthe3rdkind.com http://pr3k.com

January 30th, 2009, 09:08 AM	#10
Carl Wilky Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Montéal, Canada Posts: 115	You're a smart man Hi Jeff, I was just in the same situation not even a week ago. I had a client that was low balling me and they wanted everything and the moon for next to nothing. They told me that they would let me know of their decision by the end of the week. After losing a few hours of sleep for giving in so much i decided to send them an email to let them know that another couple was interested for the same date and they had picked a bigger package but i was allowing them to either match their price or i was forced to pass it along. I haven't heard from them since. I know at first you think you lost money by turing the client down but as others have mentioned if you start cutting deals with couples you'll become your own competitor which isn't a good idea at all. See the positive side to this story is now i will have more time to work on the good paying customers who value the work i do.

January 30th, 2009, 09:47 AM	#11
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	I don't do weddings, but there is ONE TRUTH in video: No news spreads faster than the lowest price you've EVER charged, regardless of how early in your career it was, how much "in kind" you also received or how close the recipient of your good will was to you. PS. That's not a "client"; you build a relationship with a client. That's a customer, at best... PPS. That's not even a customer, that's a tire kicker. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

January 30th, 2009, 03:13 AM	#2
John Knight Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 588	You don't need client's like that. Move on to the next one...

January 30th, 2009, 06:36 AM	#3
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Jeff, when I have a potenial client say that (or similar) to me I basically tell them "great, good luck to you" and move on all the while thanking my lucky stars I did NOT book the job. While we all want the job to make the money sometimes NOT booking it is really the best thing to do. Ever have a B&G you live with forever? Or at least it seems like it. If you already gave them a deal but reducing you normal price and they came back and demanded more, of course I would want to know what it is they wanted, but it is generally something unreasonable, so cut them loose and if you can't book someone else to fill the date then so be it. I just really don't let it bother me. After all, you aren't going to book all of them all the time. Some will, some won't, so what. Who's NEXT! Don

January 30th, 2009, 06:55 AM	#4
Lukas Siewior Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lyndhurst, NJ, USA Posts: 408	Don't worry Jeff. I was feeling similar when I dropped customers referred by a friend. Just their expectations were much bigger for less money then I could agree for. It'll pass as soon as you get another customer for the same weekend at your terms.

January 30th, 2009, 07:25 AM	#6
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Thanks guys.

January 30th, 2009, 07:52 AM	#7
Noel Lising Major Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 789	Jeff, You made the right decision. People think Wedding Videography is easy and Uncle Bob can do it, then by all means let them.

January 30th, 2009, 12:44 PM	#12
Scott Hayes Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 692	i just got the same thing, except for photography. they were going to have a friend shoot everything else except for group shots, told them sorry, my half day package is the lowest I offer. see ya!

January 30th, 2009, 01:31 PM	#13
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	All in all, especially after your feedback, I do feel better. A few weeks ago I raised my rates a couple of hundred dollars, and my conversion rate is same as before I did. I've been complaining all year about my backlog of edits, and part of the reason I raised my prices was to slow things down a bit. It is so true that that kind of client is usually the most difficult also. More and more I'm glad she's moved on. I tend to offer discounts for Fridays, but that is only contributing to the problem of the backlog. It sure did last year.

January 30th, 2009, 02:07 PM	#14
Scott Adams New Boot Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 19	Ok... maybe I should make a separate thread for this... but does anyone have something like a top 10 list of reasons a B&G shouldn't let Uncle Bob do their wedding videography? Educating the B&G's before the DEAL OR NO DEAL PHASE can't hurt.

January 30th, 2009, 02:17 PM	#15
Chris Estrella Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Richmond, Canada Posts: 117	Maybe my story doesn't fit in this category as B&G's never really threatened me to say "lower your rate or we won't book you", but I still feel like sharing. I had two potential clients that were interested in booking me, one of whom actually confirmed (and was going to have their wedding on a small cruise too), but I didn't meet them to sign a contract or take a deposit. Both said they were on a budget, both later said they were going to have family members do it and not hire me because of their low budget. Months later, I stumble upon other wedding videographer websites and what do I see? They're wedding video highlights with those same potential clients. They were with different videographers with rates much higher than mine. I'll admit, they probably produce higher quality videos than I can, but that didn't seem to be a concern to them. How's THAT for disturbing?