HD Delivery this year

[Ger Griffin]

Originally Posted by Steve Shovlar

There were two other videographers at both fairs and they did nothing on the day. And neither of them did blu-ray.

Get ahead of your rivals by staying up to date with HD, but don't make it hard for yourself by offering hardware.

Personally I would be more likely to feel at the moment, don't make it hard on yourself by offering HD.
You have filled 5 dates with weddings that you need to provide HD versions.
You will also need to render out to SD for extra copies needed.
I dont know but will this mean re-authoring as well as re-rendering the project?
Thats a lot of extra work if your trying to get through a backlog of weddings not to be charging anything extra for it simply to have gotten the job in the first place.

[Philip Gioja]

Ger, you have a good point here that with HD no matter what there are going to be SD copies going out as well.

I think I would price it as economically as possible, basically time plus hardware costs. Same as I price everything else. I'm no gouger.

I do feel right now that I could go through this year without making any changes to my delivery - shoot HD, deliver 16x9 SD, and not lose anything because of it. So by going with Blu-Ray, I have some equipment and setup costs I have to pay, but with this more file-based route, my setup is already taken care of, and it's just my time to export the HD file.

But I am starting to lean towards learning the process and setting up for both options, charging some type of fee either way for HD delivery, and letting the customer choose.

[Steve Shovlar]

Originally Posted by Ger Griffin

Personally I would be more likely to feel at the moment, don't make it hard on yourself by offering HD.
You have filled 5 dates with weddings that you need to provide HD versions.
You will also need to render out to SD for extra copies needed.
I dont know but will this mean re-authoring as well as re-rendering the project?
Thats a lot of extra work if your trying to get through a backlog of weddings not to be charging anything extra for it simply to have gotten the job in the first place.

OK I picked up another wedding yesterday afternoon. Why? Because I am offering Blu-ray as standard. They phoned up, said they spoke to me at the wedding fair on Sunday, said they liked what they saw and asked me to go through everything with them again. When I mentioned they get a blu-ray dvd as part of the package, they said this was important to them and that I was the only one to offer this included in the deal. They said only one other videographer in the area could provide them with a Blu-ray dvd of their wedding and did a lot of umming and arrring on the phone when they questioned it. Frankly, they said, if felt like the guy was bulls*itting to get the deal and they lost faith instantantly.


Using a WDMP is a no go IMO. It doesn't have it's own hard drive, meaning you have to provide the cumtomer with a WD passport drive or similar. What colour do they want? What size do they want? Why doesn't it work when I pug it in? Why does it look unsightly? I have just erased it. Put it back on please. ( after you have wiped it from your system)

If you are going this route perhaps a Popcorn Hour A-110 with built in hard drive would be better. But it means adding anouther £200 to the price of the wedding and at this time of credit crunch and recession, price is very important. Handing over a blu-ray dvd is fool proof. No erasing it by accident. It plays on a PS3, of which many of my customers seem to own, or have a ready made excuse to go out and buy one! ( great selling point to the guy)

We all now the demographic of our customers. 22-35, middle class, reasonably affluent, girl is OK to pretty and confident. These people own PS3's or are not adverse to buying one.

On to making the bloody thing. I find it not a problem, though I have a powerful quad core Mac Pro. I edit in HD, then bring it out in SD via compressor and the Cinema Craft Encoder MP. Fast and efficient.

For HD its a bit more faffing around. I renderd out in HD then brought it across my network to a PC and finished it off in Sony Architect and out to blu-ray. Now that Roxio Toast does an excellent Blu-ray dvd, I am buying an external LG BE06LU11 and will do it all on the Mac.

Timewise, doing it overnight is fine. I do a 10 pass VBR on the SD DVD and that takes about 6-8 hours. Yet to do a blu-ray of 90 minutes in Toast but it was very quick in short tests.

[Peter Manojlovic]

Hey Steve...I'm a huge fan and preacher of Cinema Craft..
Can you see a standalone software HD encoder coming in the near future?

I'd jump to Bluray in a heartbeat if there was a dedicated software encoder like CCE for HD...

[Philip Gioja]

Thanks Steve - I think I'm convinced to offer both options and see which one works better. Toast and an external burner doesn't sound like too bad of an investment. Can you make decent menus through Toast? I have an old license for it somewhere that I could upgrade, but I used it for audio projects, not video.

[Travis Cossel]

I think the answer of HD delivery is going to be different for everyone. I firmly believe it's bad business to just "give away" the technology. If you build the extra costs into your packages, then that's great, but if you're throwing it in as a freebie then I think that's probably a bad idea and just sets a bad precedent. Half the problem in our industry is we have newbies popping up all the time who give practically everything away, and it stunts the growth of the industry. It also conditions brides to think that many things aren't of high value, since so many of the upstarts are just giving those things away.

When I first started out, I mostly charged for what I provided. I made mistakes, though, like anyone else. One of the first of these was in travel. I didn't charge a penny for travel. I thought it was a great idea to get a leg up on my competition. The trouble is, when you start doing destination weddings and you aren't charging for travel, you're losing money. I might have booked more destination weddings than my competition, but I wasn't making as much as I needed to since I was spending so much money on travel. I would have been better off just booking local weddings and turning a better profit.

So whether or not you decide to offer an HD solution, I would encourage everyone to look at how you offer it carefully. Avoid the temptation to just give it away for free, because that only hurts your own business and the rest of the industry.

As for me, I switched to HD this past year, fully expecting to have some interest from couples. More than 6 months later and I haven't had a single couple interested in HD. In fact, roughly 50-75% of the couples I meet with don't even own an HDTV. That absolutely shocked me. So make sure you know your market when you're making this decision.

[Ger Griffin]

Originally Posted by Steve Shovlar

They phoned up, said they spoke to me at the wedding fair on Sunday, said they liked what they saw and asked me to go through everything with them again.

Steve, Are you sure these people would not have gone with you if you weren't offering HD?

Maybe your stuff wipes the floor with the competition regardless of HD.

Look, Im not anti HD and if i can id like to assist in the catalyst that gets this transition done and dusted but not if its going to cost me my time. They must be the ones to pay.

I've seen wedding photographers jumping out in front of each other with 'digital advantages' for the past few years.
Where are they now?
They are getting the same money for a job that one time was much less time consuming to do.
One time they simply had to drop off and pick up prints, then construct an album. Their expertise was getting it right on the day.
Now how many hours are they spending in Photoshop during the week just to keep the wolves from the door?

Same money, more work = destruction of a good industry.

[Ger Griffin]

Travis, we obviously share the same opinion on this.
I literally only read your post after posting mine.

[Philip Gioja]

I agree with your sentiments. My intention is to offer an upgrade to HD if the customer is interested in pursuing it. It'll be fairly priced, not gouging, but offers a route to HD if the customer would like to pursue it. It costs me considerably more to own an XH-A1, burner, software, and new computer than it did to own my old G4 and GL2, so that cost does eventually have to be picked up somewhere.

I run a tight ship to compete, and work hard on my weddings to be sure they are unique, but nothing is free. Good work today is no good if it doesn't support me tomorrow, and I think most customers understand that.

[Steve Shovlar]

I don't give away Blu-ray, its part of my standard package. Whether a couple know what it is or not doesn't come into it.

I use it as a major selling point, and it works. I don't want to ever get into the situation of charging a premium for Blu-ray DVD. That's not how I work at all.

I never, ever discount. My starting prices are £995 up to £1695 for a two cameraman wedding. That's it. No extras at all. Because everything is included. No exra £50 for coming to the brides house before the ceremony. No extra £50 to stay on an hour extra. No extra for a slideshow. no extra for Blu-ray. And you know what? Couples prefer it any day of the week. So many of my competitors phaff and fart about with a flat price and a ton of addons, it confuses and befudles the couple so much it puts them off. I tell them the price, and they have me for the day. No hidden extras whatsoever. I am there from 2 hours before the wedding, until 2 hours after the first dance. 6 SD dvds and a blu-ray DVd in a special presentation case, all with full menues, chapters and artwork. £100 deposit and the balance 30 days before wedding day. Sign here!

I could charge an extra £150 for Blu-ray but in truth I don't want to. My prices are higher end than the opposition in the area yet I still do better than most of them put together.

Blow my own trumpet? I sure do, loud and clear. Sure there are cheaper guys out there than me but what I offer is experience, and a very high quality product, backed up by many satisfied couples.

This is how I sell it at fairs. A couple walk towards my stand. I never, ever stand back. As they approach they are greeted with a smile and a "good morning, are you looking for a videographer?". Answer will be one of the following. "Yes we are" ( the perfect answer) We are thinking about it ( good answer!) haven't really thought about it ( not so good but workable) Uncle Bob is filming it for us ( bad answer) or No we don''t want one (forget it)

If it is one of the more favourable answers, I give them the speel (as well as asking the brides mum if the bride and her are sisters, works every time!) as they watch the HD stream on the TV. Many remark about the superb looking images in front of them and I explain its blu-ray and that they get this as standard. I ask them if they have a HD ready TV ( most say yes) and if they have a way of playing blu-ray ( about 50% say yes) If they say no, then I tell them that when they upgrade their DVD player they will be able to watch their wedding in HD just like the sample they are watching. I also hint to the groom that here his his chance and a very good excuse to go out and buy that PS3 he has always wanted! It works.

I ask the couple if they have spoken to other videographers, and quite a few say they have, but none of my rivals offers Blu-ray as standard. The images on my sample sell it for me. I hardly have to do a thing than just ask them to view the footage for a few minutes. After explaining I am more expensive than my rivals but "you get what you pay for", I am asked if I am available on such and such a date ( hopefully I am) and I get the deposite.

Now I will say I am a confident salesman. I can sell my business quite well and have learned when to speak and when to button it when in conversation with prospective couples. I have found that if I can win the guy over early on in the conversation ( many don't want to be seen dead at a wedding fair) I will get the booking.

I sell Blu-ray like it is the holy grail. If they didn't know about it, or were not really familiar with it when they walked up, I am sure when they walk away it will be something they "must have" as they walk away. And that's how it should be used to get you business. IMO.

Sorry for the length of this.

[Ger Griffin]

What you are saying to these people that you have opened their eyes to HD is that this is how much it should cost.
Yet your prices are competitive with guys providing SD.

People should expect to have to pay more for it.
How much more is up to you.

[Steve Shovlar]

HD is the new SD. I am roughly £200 more expensive than my rivals, who on their websites show one price but discoount hugely to get the booking.

A close friend of mine has been filming weddings since 1983. 6 years ago he averaged 40-45 weddings a year. In 2000 he filmed 60 weddings. Two years ago he shot 23 weddings. Last year he shot 14 and this year he has 5 confirmed bookings. He is shooting SD. He is panicking and doesn't know what has happened and can't fathom why his business has collapsed around him. He has lowered his prices to £695 for a full days shooting.

This year has been my best year so far. Since the New year I have taken a stack of bookings and I only have a few Saturdays left this summer. In the space of a few years I have gone from nothing to well over £30,000 gross. Not bad for an on the side little earner. If things continue as they are and the rcession doesn't kill us, in two years I should be up at the 50 weddings a year mark.

Am I underselling HD? I don't think so at all. Move with the times, charge what the market will bear, (offering HD as part of the package is a killer deal) never discount but sell yourself as the best. Have a great showreel in HD at fairs, and sell yourself as someone they must use at their wedding.

[Travis Cossel]

Steve, did you increase your package prices once you started including Blu-Ray in your packages?

[Ger Griffin]

strange i edited my last post and yet again spotted 2 more new ones after that.

But yea, i think i know where you are going with this Travis.
As long as people are made aware that this costs more, not the same.
And as long as videogs charge more, not the same.

If a videog who has been operating since the 80's is now losing business then he probably needs to re-evaluate his whole approach to the shoot on the day. These guys are very routined since the old tape based days and aren't very willing to shoot more than they need.
Thats what I would put that down to.

[Steve Shovlar]

Originally Posted by Ger Griffin

People should expect to have to pay more for it.
How much more is up to you.

This is where wedding videographers go wrong IMO. Couples see HD at my stand. They love it. Now, if I said I am £1000 for SD, and what you wll get is nowhere near as good as this, but if you pay me an extra £500 I will make it look like that, do you think they will pay it? Answer is simple. No they won't. Chances are they will feel they are being scammed.

I offer Blu-ray as standard. What the couple see is what they get. No hidden extras, no nothing. I am the most expensive in the area but that is not because of blu-ray, its because I give a great service.

Perhaps in London I could easily start at £1500+, but I am in rural Dorset and there isn't a massive population to tap into. I would rather have 30 weddings at £1000 a pop, then 5 weddings at £1500. Because that's all I would have on my books if I charged that.

So no, I am not a busy fool.