Photogs stepping into the videog's turf?

[Jeff Kellam]

FYI, I looked at the photographers website that shot the video this post is about.

The FAQ stated an average wedding shoot is $5,000, and it seemed to imply to expect more.


A note to Jeff Harper:
I don't care what market you are in, charging less than $2,000 for an involved three cam shoot is way too low. Im glad you are nowhere around here.

[Travis Cossel]

Originally Posted by Tim Harjo

The only problem with that is if they have already booked a photo / video package through a photog. If they get sold on a video package from a photographer, then they won't go looking for a videographer. And that's a shame if the a photog is going to do a crappy job just to get another $500 bucks. I'm not talking about the fully staffed studios that does it right, I'm talking about a photographer that brings along one assistant and says 'sure, for another $500, I'll shoot some video too and call it a wedding video package. Hopefully no one out there would really do that and represent it as a complete photo and video package.

That's a valid point, but I tend to think anything that popularizes the medium of video in wedding planning is a good thing. The biggest hurdle I face with booking brides is their lack of desire for a wedding video.

I also tend to believe that most of the brides who would book a photog to do a subpar video would have either not booked a videographer in the first place, or they would have booked someone far cheaper than me.

I guess I'm just not too worried about this whole thing. At first I had concerns, but not anymore really.

[Travis Cossel]

Originally Posted by Joe Allen Rosenberger

Travis, your comments should probably be directed for "your" market in Boise Idaho...and not in general( I can understand your points for your market but not for the region I am in). Boise Idaho and Southern California are two WAY different markets and 4K for a photographer is close to an average out here, and that is not for the upper high end market either.

"Most" photographers do not like working with videographers...and often for good and legitimate reasons.

Good wedding videography(shot and edited by whoever) helps wedding videographers.....but the mass amount of bad ones out there will continue to reinforce brides why they shouldn't have a wedding video....and also why they shouldn't pay a lot for it.

With all due respect Joe, my wife is a photographer with connections to many other photographers around the nation in many different markets. She is on multiple boards that are just like this one, and she regularly attends learning workshops and trade shows (like WPPI and SPA). So I know a bit about the photography market across the US.

When I speak of the "average" photographer I'm not talking about a photographer in Los Angeles or a photographer in New York City. There are many, many markets across the US that are just like Boise, Idaho. One of the best photographers in the nation lives in a tiny town in Iowa. I would say the majority of photographers live in markets that act similarly to Boise, not the higher-priced areas like where you live.

Most of the photographers that my wife interacts with, the VAST majority, are less expensive than she is .. and many of them live in much larger markets. So again, my point was not to be taken as "all" photographers .. just the average photographer in an average market. I hope that makes better sense.

[Joe Allen Rosenberger]

Originally Posted by Travis Cossel

With all due respect Joe, my wife is a photographer with connections to many other photographers around the nation in many different markets. She is on multiple boards that are just like this one, and she regularly attends learning workshops and trade shows (like WPPI and SPA). So I know a bit about the photography market across the US.

When I speak of the "average" photographer I'm not talking about a photographer in Los Angeles or a photographer in New York City. There are many, many markets across the US that are just like Boise, Idaho. One of the best photographers in the nation lives in a tiny town in Iowa. I would say the majority of photographers live in markets that act similarly to Boise, not the higher-priced areas like where you live.

Most of the photographers that my wife interacts with, the VAST majority, are less expensive than she is .. and many of them live in much larger markets. So again, my point was not to be taken as "all" photographers .. just the average photographer in an average market. I hope that makes better sense.

good luck my man.

[Dana Salsbury]

Photographers also have insane competition to get jobs, so I would guess their ad budget is higher? Would you say that's true?

[Travis Cossel]

There are definitely more photographers in a given market than videographers. The demand for photographers is also higher, so maybe it evens out. It's hard to say.

The odd thing is that my wife does market a bit more than me for weddings, but she doesn't have to market for weddings nearly as much as she has to market for seniors.

[Yang Wen]

Originally Posted by Luis Rolo

Already started : the [b] school blog

WOW

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Let's agree on one point - This fusion technology will never affect clients who are looking for long-form video coverage. However, I suspect many potential clients are satisfied with little snippets of videos of poignant moments throughout the day. These people will more than willing to go with a "video add-on" package from their photographer. The Bebbs trailer here is a very compelling example of how a two person photography team can provide a very watchable video product. No, their offering won't satisfy every potential client out there, but it does mean a significant chunk of clients that we'll now have to compete for.

[Jeff Harper]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kellam

A note to Jeff Harper:
I don't care what market you are in, charging less than $2,000 for an involved three cam shoot is way too low. Im glad you are nowhere around here.

What is too low? Oh I know. You want others to set pricing that is line with what YOU think is fair. I have been in the wedding business since 1988 and have seen this attitude plenty, and I don't care for it, never have.

What price I choose may be too low for you, but you are not running my business or feeding my family, I am.

One of my friends in the biz is a really great guy, but one issue I have with him is that constantly complains about other people's pricing as well as their styles. He is like a broken record, and never seems happy with how others run their businesses.

[Joe Allen Rosenberger]

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

What is too low? Oh I know. You want others to set pricing that is line with what YOU think is fair. I have been in the wedding business since 1988 and have seen this attitude plenty, and I don't care for it, never have.

What price I choose may be too low for you, but you are not running my business or feeding my family, I am.

One of my friends in the biz is a really great guy, but one issue I have with him is that constantly complains about other people's pricing as well as their styles. He is like a broken record, and never seems happy with how others run their businesses.

Jeff-
regardless of your pricing or package options, you are obviously doing something right with that many years behind you as an event video producer. I don't think there's too many folks around here who can say they have been in business for 20 years...hats off to you my man!

[Jeff Harper]

Thanks Joe, but in all honesty I've only been in the video business a relatively short few years. Prior I ran an entertainment company for the bulk of my career. But as 80% of our business was wedding related, there is virtually no difference on the business side of things whether you're running enteraintment or video.

I mentioned my friend who always complains. I don't think it is a coincidence that the target of his ire is mostly for the largest wedding videographer in the area who does upwards of 200 weddings a year, has standing contracts with many funeral homes and he does a boatload of corporate stuff too, all out of his home. He has lots of shooters and and certain times of the year he has up to three (or is it four?) full-time editors knocking out work.

Funny thing is this guy really is the absolutely nicest, fairest guy I know. What's even funnier is he is despised by a lot if not most other videgraphers in this area. Finally became clear to me that it is his success they dispise. It is an amazing thing to behold.

Meantime, I consider both of these guys and a few others, my friends. I don't care how they run their business or what they charge, but I guess that comes with getting old!

I admit the advent of cheap digital still cameras has caused damge to some of the old-time photographers, and many of them would say it has caused a decline in quality. But that is the way with everything now, unfortunately. From McDonalds hamburgers to the low-quality of music downloads, there is a huge sector of consumers that value price and convenience over quality, and it is becoming only more-so.

[Mike Tucker]

+1

Happy New Year!!

Mike




I say good luck to 'em. If the photographer has business sense then working together with videoprahpers would only help the industry and their own business.[/QUOTE]