Photogs stepping into the videog's turf?

[Dave Blackhurst]

Originally Posted by Luis Rolo

Already started : the [b] school blog

Interesting, clearly at least 2 shooters, and maybe more in that video, including one dedicated video cam?

The amount of activity on the 5DmkII threads here on DVinfo is indicative that this camera is a pivotal piece of tech (much as the first HD cameras changed things), and it has many possibilities.

I just wish the D90 at $1K would do what the Canon can do at 3x the price... I'd probably already have spec'd out how to switch over some of my gear! For now, I'm just watching and waiting. I've got enough invested in video and DSLR cameras and auxilliary gear that do their jobs well, so it's not a "gotta do it now" proposition... for now.

But I'm pretty sure the NEXT still camera upgrade will be a "dual purpose" camera - my other big disappointment is that Sony completely dropped the ball on their FF offering... DUH... and what is my primary gear of choice... DUH... SONY, what are ya thinkin'??? Otherwise I'd be selling 2 DSLR's and 2 video cams and converting them to DVSLR's...

If you're budgeting or in the market for an "additional cam" and didn't at least look at the 5DmkII as a possible option, I think you'd be making a big mistake - from what I've seen it's quite good with minimal light, and it's hard to argue with the output that's already hitting the street.


<Philosophical tangent alert>
We live in a time of change... that can be scary or exciting, depending on your perspective! The quality levels that can be produced with under 10K of equipment (and that no doubt will drop...) are nice for someone wanting to be creative. But it certainly is an precarious time if you are one to rest on your laurels... not a good time to be doing that, IMO.

This probably is the time to start thinking co-operative "team" not "competitor", if you're not already doing it.

Photography and video (and most "media" for that matter) are just 1's and 0's now...

BUT all we really are is a storyteller around a crackling fire... how will we entertain, educate, elevate, inform or otherwise earn our status with our "tribe"?

Take a few moments to forget about the gear, and find your "voice", your vision, your concept, your message... THEN go toy shopping if needed!

Chances are you'll find some cool stuff that will allow you to do great things - but if you don't have a vision, you're only fooling yourself...

When the screen flickers in the darkness, have you made an impact... or a dull thud...

[Jeff Harper]

Joe is correct. Without a vision for your story it is all kind of pointless.

[Don Miller]

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

I currently mix professional photos with video and it is the absolute favorite thing of every single prospect who views my work. They love it. I love it. It is beautiful and artistic.

I think Chris is right on point.

Put the labels of videographer and photographer aside and deliver what best pleases your client. If that's multimedia, then that's what it is.

Everyone should be thinking about the bride hiring one company to produce the services and media (all types) that she wants to buy. Good coverage is going to require two or more people anyway. Are they shooting video or stills or both on the same device? I don't know, and different parts of the day may require different combinations. People who can create a compelling product and sell their vision to the bride will be the winners.

[Dana Salsbury]

Good points Don.

I'm starting to think that having willing photographers send me their best photos of the day would spice up my videos dramatically. I did it once with great results. I can do the one thing the photographer cannot do -- stamp their credit in the video.

The tricky part is waiting for the photos. Pry the best route is to request them within a time period while I edit the job; then if they don't come I'll proceed as normal. If they do come it would be a nice surprise to the couple, and a relationship builder with the photographer. If the photographer has copyright or time issues, that's fine. I think the photographer would benefit from the exposure.

[Dave Blackhurst]

Since I shoot video and my wife shoots stills, I've always got the advantage <wink>. But when working with others, it's important to develop that rapport - it pays off in the long run. Frankly the energy of working with other "creatives" in a positive environment is better than drugs! For instance, I love seeing Pat's "team"... pumps me up just watching them and their work.

I am set up so I've got the "backup" still rig handy (just got a slingbag so it's easy access), and there's always a video cam handy for my wife - her eye is good, just wish she'd use it more for video!!! IOW, the ideal in my mind is to have a "multimedia team" with specialists in one area who can double up as needed, and the equipment to back it up.

When another friend who shoots still mentioned he was looking for a new camera, I immediately suggested the D90 (would have suggested the Canon, but it's out of his budget, and I knew that... sigh, I want one to play with and no one I know can afford it with the economy!!!!) - since he was upgrading ANYWAY, why not get his feet wet?

Getting pigeonholed into "videographer" of "photographer" isn't a good future proof business plan in a multimedia world. It takes more work to learn all the various aspects, but in the end each new thing you add to your quiver gives you an advantage in ALL the aspects of a visual media (starting from video you of course are already an audio superstar, right?).

Media is changing, you either change with it, or join the "typsetter" in the Museum "dinosaurs of just before yesterday" display. The underlying skills and craft really don't change, but the expression method and tools will no doubt be VASTLY different due to change in technology and the world in general...

PS - not sure who I am anymore, but hopefully the concepts are helpful... just credit them to "Dave" <wink>!

[Jeff Harper]

Dana, I don't get my photos from the photographer. I get them from the clients. Getting them from the photographer is tough because they are already so busy, as I am. I have had more than one promise to send me their disc and not follow through.

When I put the credit for their work on my website it has driven a fair number of customers to them. I highly recommend the photographers whose work appears in my videos, and customers love the prospect of working with a videographer and photographer that really know each other. Of course the vast majority of my prospects have already hired a photographer when they visit with me, but not all.

What is interesting is several of photographers were not particularly impressed with the whole deal..they seemed indifferent, usually the higher end ones. They are already succesful, and I think they are a tad uncomfortable with their work being used in ways they cannot control. Yes I had been given full rights to use the photos, and they SAID didn't mind, but they didn't embrace it like the smaller, lower-end folks have. Overall I don't think they liked it, but that is just a feeling I had. The customers loved it, of course. They always do.

[Tim Harjo]

If a photog wants to do all the work to produce photo and video, I say let'em have at it. Some of the top wedding videographers in both the states and abroad started out as photogs and then found passion in video. This really is nothing new.

Honestly, the only thing that would disappoint me, would be if brides were more apt in the future to settle for just a small amount of video these new cams would provide. If that really happened on a global scale, I would be forced to change my game to compete in the market.

[Dana Salsbury]

I agree Tim, that would be disappointing to see. I don't think that will happen though. Video is too powerful. I think that most couples who don't do video simply don't know what they're missing.

>Dana, I don't get my photos from the photographer. I get them from the clients. Getting them from the photographer is tough because they are already so busy, as I am. I have had more than one promise to send me their disc and not follow through.

True, but I don't want to bug the client, and am more than fine not doing it. Some photographers are more enthusiastic and will jump all over it. An excellent photo or two makes my music videos pop, so it's worth asking.

Another good thing about featuring photographers is that it shows future clients that we're team players.

[Jeff Harper]

Dana, you don't have to bug the client. You simply tell them if they want their videos mixed with photos they can give you their cds when they get them from the photographer.

I have not had a single client that had to even be reminded. They can't wait to get them to me. To put it more accurately, they often run directly to my place with CDs in hand. They often stay in touch with me and update me as to when they are getting them. What is funny they also are often apologizing to me when it takes a long time. Of course the longer it takes the happier I am because I'm often behind anyway.

[William Smyth]

While I think, photographers having the ability to shoot very high quality video with their "still" cameras is something I want to keep an eye on as a businessman. I don't know how much of a threat it is to most videographers.

As much as we all like to get enamored with Steadicams, Brevis lens mounts and other cinematic treats, in my experience, the most important things for the bride is the competent capturing of the important moments of the day. They want to see and HEAR the vows, the first kiss, the cake cutting, the walk down the aisle. That is the meat and potatoes of what we do. A photographer will need to either give up their mobility or have another photographer dedicated to get the video and audio of these events.

[Denny Kyser]

Photographer speaking here.
Video guys have nothing to worry about. I have a great photography business, and added video because there just is none in my small rural area. I quickly realized I made a mistake way too much involved, but because I booked weddings (straight edit single cam) I had no choice but to keep spending and learning spending and learning. I am better than most family members, and thats what I tell clients.

Photographers will quickly realize there loosing money trying to do both, the labor alone will cost them money, let alone dealing with audio etc.

I feel like the video included with the new DSLR's will be enough to let photographers realize video is a different beast.

I was going to get a 5D Mark II as a back up camera, ended up going with the 1Ds Mark III instead. When I do video my XH-A1's will be what I use, not a DSLR.

[Sean Seah]

its going to really tough to choose bet both video n photo during those "moments" on actual days. They serve different functions. I do the same, mixing photo+videos n the clients love it. I do not see it as a threat now. But if the chap is hired to shoot photos, he will have to stay focused on his primary job. Even if u r doing both, how will u choose when to shoot video n when to do photos?

In fact I see such cameras as a great tool for videographers with the great choice of lens. Ha ha but the backlog thingy is very true and that will be quite a pressure!

The main threat I guess would be pre wedding videos. The photographers could be doing both under those no pressure situations.

[Dana Salsbury]

Ohh, good point. Engagement shoots would take on a whole new meaning with some short videos. That's an arrow for their quiver.

God bless you Denny. I don't see photography as something I would do well at. It's more of a type A personality thing. I kind of enjoy letting them plan the shots and give me cool backgrounds. I get to focus on audio, angles and F-stops.

[Don Miller]

Originally Posted by Dana Salsbury

Good points Don.

I'm starting to think that having willing photographers send me their best photos of the day would spice up my videos dramatically. ........................

Good luck with that :)

It's not about a photographer being uncooperative, it's about improving your work at the expense of reducing the impact of his photos. I would enjoy working with you as a photog for a wedding, but you ain't gettin my money shots.

[Jeff Harper]

Don, if you are getting credit for the photos in a video, wouldn't you want your best shots in there?

I don't see how including your best photos in a video would diminish your work. It would seem that the opposite makes more sense.

One of my favorite photographers will absolutely not allow his work to appear in my customer's video, and as a result how can I refer him?

Another photographer, who is not quite as great a photographer, happily encourages her customer's full use of photos in video, and has gotten several jobs this year as a result of customers watching my demo and seeing the photos.

As I have said only a very few clients talking to me have not first hired their photographer. But the few that have not are often easily pushed towards one or another.

Customers also really like that the two of us can work so well together. That really puts them at ease and makes everyone look good.

If I were to tell a customer that "I can use some of Don's shots in your video, but there are certain ones he won't allow" I'm sure the look on the customers face would be of complete bewilderment. And I would be at a complete loss to give an explanation that would make sense to them as customers.