Cinematic or not? at DVinfo.net

Christopher Glavan · November 27th, 2008, 01:57 AM

I'm editing a wedding I did not shoot (for a friend), and I'm really interested in using cuts instead of dissolves both to challenge myself and to add variety to my portfolio. My concern is that a lot of the shots this guy did start tight and zoom out, or start wide and zoom in. I don't see that in other cinematic-style highlights. Can it work with this kind of footage?

Bill Grant · November 27th, 2008, 08:01 AM

Christopher,
Most likely as you edit, it will be pretty clear what is working or not. It has to suit the couple and the footage. I mix cuts and dissolves liberally without a particular preference. It has to work, and if it doesn't then it doesn't. Don't be afraid to try different things in the edit. It will most likely show itself to you.
Bill

Jawad Mir · November 27th, 2008, 10:10 AM

I agree. Sometimes with the worst or decent of footage you can do creative stuff. And in my humble opinion, there is not anything magical about editing great shot footage and making it good. The best way to test yourself is play with crummy footage and it will tell you how creative you really are...so my point is..dare to try something new..and trust me...the things u are most afraid to do..are the ones will end up looking great

Martin Mayer · November 27th, 2008, 12:00 PM

OK... but don't be fooled into thinking that using effects will turn poor footage into good footage.

I'm sure everyone here will say "of course not! we never do that!", but I see loads of footage (both here and elsewhere) where the use of effects is clearly used to:

(a) distract from the poor original footage and

(b) fool both the creator and viewer into thinking the result is somehow better than it is.

You can mask it with effects (if you must) but it's still poor. Christopher: you said it yourself:

Quote:

"I don't see that in other cinematic-style highlights."

Why do you think that is?

Peter Szilveszter · November 27th, 2008, 04:24 PM

Hopefully I can somewhat help, I had gone through the same thing a few months ago which I was a reluctant to do so as it was shot by a family member of the couple and they asked if we could edit their wedding ceremony into a highlight. I don't use it as demo as its below the standard of what we do but I did upload it for them on youtube so have a watch YouTube - Sarah and Fabian Wedding Highlight and should give an idea. I had colour graded it and edited to the song and only added some fake shallow DOF and vignetting (if that's considered effects?). I used slow motions as the couple really liked it and also fit the song quiet well.

I would say it is a good exercise to give you a challenge as an editor, I actually learnt couple of things from it so its worth doing at least once.

Jawad Mir · November 27th, 2008, 10:43 PM

i have never used effects. just simple editing......

i hate those corny effects wedding NO OFFENSE To anyone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Mayer

OK... but don't be fooled into thinking that using effects will turn poor footage into good footage.

I'm sure everyone here will say "of course not! we never do that!", but I see loads of footage (both here and elsewhere) where the use of effects is clearly used to:

(a) distract from the poor original footage and

(b) fool both the creator and viewer into thinking the result is somehow better than it is.

You can mask it with effects (if you must) but it's still poor. Christopher: you said it yourself: Why do you think that is?

Jawad Mir · November 27th, 2008, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Szilveszter

Hopefully I can somewhat help, I had gone through the same thing a few months ago which I was a reluctant to do so as it was shot by a family member of the couple and they asked if we could edit their wedding ceremony into a highlight. I don't use it as demo as its below the standard of what we do but I did upload it for them on youtube so have a watch YouTube - Sarah and Fabian Wedding Highlight and should give an idea. I had colour graded it and edited to the song and only added some fake shallow DOF and vignetting (if that's considered effects?). I used slow motions as the couple really liked it and also fit the song quiet well.

I would say it is a good exercise to give you a challenge as an editor, I actually learnt couple of things from it so its worth doing at least once.

good work. i can tell the footage was not the great but you really challenged yourself AWESOME

Travis Cossel · November 27th, 2008, 10:50 PM

If the footage has lots of zooming in it, then straight cuts are probably going to be easier to work with sometimes because you can immediately cut to or from a clip at the start or end of a zoom. With a dissolve, you're going to have to watch for overlap.

That said, it's going to depend on what does and doesn't work as you edit. Good luck!

Christopher Glavan · November 28th, 2008, 06:12 AM

Thanks for the input all. I'm gonna try it, I'm just not confident I'll be able to see whether it's good enough or not since I haven't done it before. I don't particularly feel like showing a client a product I'm not sure of- maybe I'll post it for you guys to review before it goes out.

John De Rienzo · November 28th, 2008, 08:03 AM

I personally DO use effects in my films, whether colour grading etc. Does it always work, maybe not.... Do I use them to cover up poor footage...NO!...

so I personally don't agree with statements saying otherwise.

Like anything in life, their will be people who hate it and people who like it. I can live with that.

I personally find films with no colour grading, straight cuts continuisly, no backing track, just live all the way through extremely boring. YES, some do edit like this. Just my opinion on this take, no offence.

Re the wedding edit, it will be a good experience for you Christopher. Hope it goes well and would be good to see it when it has been done.

Cheers.

November 27th, 2008, 01:57 AM	#1
Christopher Glavan Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 260	Cinematic or not? I'm editing a wedding I did not shoot (for a friend), and I'm really interested in using cuts instead of dissolves both to challenge myself and to add variety to my portfolio. My concern is that a lot of the shots this guy did start tight and zoom out, or start wide and zoom in. I don't see that in other cinematic-style highlights. Can it work with this kind of footage? __________________ Reel Impressions Media - Make it more than a memory GY-HD100- 7D- PSC Promix 3- Lectro/Sennheiser- Zoom H4- MPB- CS6/CC

November 27th, 2008, 08:01 AM	#2
Bill Grant Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 806	Christopher, Most likely as you edit, it will be pretty clear what is working or not. It has to suit the couple and the footage. I mix cuts and dissolves liberally without a particular preference. It has to work, and if it doesn't then it doesn't. Don't be afraid to try different things in the edit. It will most likely show itself to you. Bill __________________ Cinema Couture www.cinemacouture.com

November 27th, 2008, 04:24 PM	#5
Peter Szilveszter Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Yeppoon, Queensland Posts: 332	Hopefully I can somewhat help, I had gone through the same thing a few months ago which I was a reluctant to do so as it was shot by a family member of the couple and they asked if we could edit their wedding ceremony into a highlight. I don't use it as demo as its below the standard of what we do but I did upload it for them on youtube so have a watch YouTube - Sarah and Fabian Wedding Highlight and should give an idea. I had colour graded it and edited to the song and only added some fake shallow DOF and vignetting (if that's considered effects?). I used slow motions as the couple really liked it and also fit the song quiet well. I would say it is a good exercise to give you a challenge as an editor, I actually learnt couple of things from it so its worth doing at least once. __________________ www.livinglens.com.au \| www.livinglens.com.au/blog

November 27th, 2008, 10:50 PM	#8
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	If the footage has lots of zooming in it, then straight cuts are probably going to be easier to work with sometimes because you can immediately cut to or from a clip at the start or end of a zoom. With a dissolve, you're going to have to watch for overlap. That said, it's going to depend on what does and doesn't work as you edit. Good luck! __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

November 28th, 2008, 06:12 AM	#9
Christopher Glavan Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 260	Thanks for the input all. I'm gonna try it, I'm just not confident I'll be able to see whether it's good enough or not since I haven't done it before. I don't particularly feel like showing a client a product I'm not sure of- maybe I'll post it for you guys to review before it goes out. __________________ Reel Impressions Media - Make it more than a memory GY-HD100- 7D- PSC Promix 3- Lectro/Sennheiser- Zoom H4- MPB- CS6/CC

November 27th, 2008, 10:10 AM	#3
Jawad Mir Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 371	I agree. Sometimes with the worst or decent of footage you can do creative stuff. And in my humble opinion, there is not anything magical about editing great shot footage and making it good. The best way to test yourself is play with crummy footage and it will tell you how creative you really are...so my point is..dare to try something new..and trust me...the things u are most afraid to do..are the ones will end up looking great

November 28th, 2008, 08:03 AM	#10
John De Rienzo Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: London Posts: 313	I personally DO use effects in my films, whether colour grading etc. Does it always work, maybe not.... Do I use them to cover up poor footage...NO!... so I personally don't agree with statements saying otherwise. Like anything in life, their will be people who hate it and people who like it. I can live with that. I personally find films with no colour grading, straight cuts continuisly, no backing track, just live all the way through extremely boring. YES, some do edit like this. Just my opinion on this take, no offence. Re the wedding edit, it will be a good experience for you Christopher. Hope it goes well and would be good to see it when it has been done. Cheers.