Some thoughts on 5D vs 35mm adapter

[Travis Cossel]

My wife asks friends and family not to shoot while she is shooting during the photoshoot, but it's not because of copywritten poses. It's because the friends and family often cause too much distraction for those being photographed and that eats up valuable time during a part of the day where time is usually really at a premium.

If a photographer ever told me I couldn't video a pose because it was "copywritten" .. I swear I'd have to laugh out loud.

[Peter Szilveszter]

At this stage I am holding onto my 35mm adapter. I think this is really early days with DSLR having a proper video options so I rather wait and see what happens in the next year or 2. I do like where the 5D has gone so no arguments, rolling shutter is still a concern for me as hand held might not be great to be used for, footage I've seen so far is all very controlled situations so its hard to judge. The other issue I have with shooting video on SLR body is it's actually not very hand held friendly. Tripod no worries, so I would probably still need rails so I can get a shoulder mount and front grips.

I don't think photographer would care too much if you got a still camera because it wouldn't be your primary cam and the photographer has already got the job locked in so why would they. Only thing it might do is give them a little scare at the large production the videographer is going for.

If they claim copyrighted poses then simply say to the photog "just going to take a couple of shots for the dvd cover so I'll (not can I) grab them for a minute or 2" as long as you have discussed with the couple that you would like to do that.

I am quiet interested to see though if someone is using them for weddings and give a review on how they went and also see their end result.

[Ethan Cooper]

Originally Posted by Peter Szilveszter

At this stage I am holding onto my 35mm adapter. I think this is really early days with DSLR having a proper video options so I rather wait and see what happens in the next year or 2. I do like where the 5D has gone so no arguments, rolling shutter is still a concern for me as hand held might not be great to be used for, footage I've seen so far is all very controlled situations so its hard to judge. The other issue I have with shooting video on SLR body is it's actually not very hand held friendly. Tripod no worries, so I would probably still need rails so I can get a shoulder mount and front grips.

I don't think photographer would care too much if you got a still camera because it wouldn't be your primary cam and the photographer has already got the job locked in so why would they. Only thing it might do is give them a little scare at the large production the videographer is going for.

If they claim copyrighted poses then simply say to the photog "just going to take a couple of shots for the dvd cover so I'll (not can I) grab them for a minute or 2" as long as you have discussed with the couple that you would like to do that.

I am quiet interested to see though if someone is using them for weddings and give a review on how they went and also see their end result.

I don't think the DSLR's shortcomings will adversely affect the types of shots I usually get with my 35mm adapter. If you were trying to shoot an entire wedding with one you'd be up a creek, but for a handfull of kick arse detail shots I think it would rock. Can you tell I'm trying to talk myself into buying one?

Oh, and I fully intend on keeping my 35mm adapter for non-wedding work such as interviews and training videos and stuff like that. They still have a place in more controlled environments.

[Peter Szilveszter]

Can you tell I'm trying to talk myself into buying one?

hehe, who am to stop you.. plus I want a guinea pig to bring some feedback on their experience :)

[Ethan Cooper]

Originally Posted by Peter Szilveszter

hehe, who am to stop you.. plus I want a guinea pig to bring some feedback on their experience :)

You'll have to wait a little while for my experiences, I'm thinking of buying early in 2009. I tend to move slowly.

[Art Varga]

Hey so the more I see, the more excited I am about the prospect of a 5D as a second cam. I use an XH-A1 as my prime and was wondering if others who are pondering this combo would use them together for a wedding. Some things I've been thinking about:

1.) For vows, would I still use the A1 for my prime angle or do I demote it to my b cam. Today I used an unmanned HV20. In poorly lit churches I might want my best shot coming from the 5D. I question whether I could run the 5D unmanned due to the need to replace the media more frequently.

2.) I don't see any easy way to continue as a solo shooter ( been meaning to get help anyway) as both cams would require an operator to take advantage of their capablilities

3.) Using the 5D for most of the reception seems a no brainer based on low-light capability. One thing I did notice though on samples is a fair amount of camera shake. If the DJ or band has a lot of bass going, how much of this will effect footage.

4.) Could you fly the 5D on a Merlin? Don't know if I would want to - just curious

5.) What lenses would you purchase for the 5D. The 24-105 that comes with the kit seems versatile but thinking I'd also want a faster lens for very low light situations.

6.) How do you think the footage from both cams would marry together. The 5D clips I've seen seem to be highly contrasted. I would imagine that someone will figure out presets for both cameras to make them look more similar?

[Ethan Cooper]

Art - I think you're talking about using the 5D as a main, frontline camera and I'm not so sure it would work in this role. Until you get one and try it out like that I guess none of us can say for sure.

I do remember reading that it'll only shoot for 12 minutes at a time. I'm guessing this is due to storage medium limitations, but if it's something other than that then the camera is a no go for long form stuff.

I don't see why you couldn't mount a 5D to a Merlin as long as you balance for one particular lens that you'll use on the Merlin all the time. I'd hate to re-balance and re-trim every lens change. Also, you'd probably have to go wide angle for focus purposes. I could see shallow DOF on a stedicam being a nightmare.

The 5D does indeed crush the black as far as I can tell from all the footage I've seen and I've yet to see someone offer up a solution to that problem... if it is a problem. It's a still photo camera that just so happens to shoot video, so your options for adjusting and tweaking the image to your liking are minimal. That's just something you'll have to live with if you use the camera.

I'd be careful pinning your hopes on making the 5D your workhorse camera at events. It just wasn't designed for that.

[Art Varga]

good points. As for recording time, here's the official canon verbiage

"The EOS 5D Mark II will record video up to 4GB per clip or a maximum continuous movie capture time of 29 minutes and 59 seconds, whichever comes first. Depending on the level of detail in the scene, a 4GB memory card can record approximately 12 minutes of video at full HD resolution or approximately 24 minutes in standard definition."

Question is, if you were to use a bigger card, would it stop recording at 4GB or keep recording and just segment into 4GB files? Aside from vows and long toasts I think I could deal with that limitation. In any case you'd need to carry a pocketful of media cards with you. I would love to try out this camera on a B&G first dance when they typically dim the lights really low. This is one of the most important scenes to capture and I'm rarely happy with the way mine turn out. Maybe I should just get better lighting - nah.

Art

[Ethan Cooper]

Originally Posted by Art Varga

I would love to try out this camera on a B&G first dance when they typically dim the lights really low. This is one of the most important scenes to capture and I'm rarely happy with the way mine turn out. Maybe I should just get better lighting - nah.

Gotta love videographer economics:
Why spend $500 on some lighting when you can spend $3500 on a camera?

I'm with you though, I'd rather shoot without lights when possible too.

[Dave Blackhurst]

Originally Posted by Art Varga

Hey so the more I see, the more excited I am about the prospect of a 5D as a second cam. I use an XH-A1 as my prime and was wondering if others who are pondering this combo would use them together for a wedding. Some things I've been thinking about:

1.) For vows, would I still use the A1 for my prime angle or do I demote it to my b cam. Today I used an unmanned HV20. In poorly lit churches I might want my best shot coming from the 5D. I question whether I could run the 5D unmanned due to the need to replace the media more frequently.

2.) I don't see any easy way to continue as a solo shooter ( been meaning to get help anyway) as both cams would require an operator to take advantage of their capablilities

3.) Using the 5D for most of the reception seems a no brainer based on low-light capability. One thing I did notice though on samples is a fair amount of camera shake. If the DJ or band has a lot of bass going, how much of this will effect footage.

4.) Could you fly the 5D on a Merlin? Don't know if I would want to - just curious

5.) What lenses would you purchase for the 5D. The 24-105 that comes with the kit seems versatile but thinking I'd also want a faster lens for very low light situations.

6.) How do you think the footage from both cams would marry together. The 5D clips I've seen seem to be highly contrasted. I would imagine that someone will figure out presets for both cameras to make them look more similar?

I'm another of those trying to justify the idea of the 5D MkII... some random "answers" from my perspective...

I think you'd need an operator for the additional camera, and a skilled one at that.

It appears from a discussion going on in the threads dedicated to this camera here on DVi that it IS possible to do presets to improve on the "stock" settings and alter the "look" of the camera - I'd expect you could match things up with a sufficient amount of effort.

The time limits on the media could be a problem... but I would think as memory gets larger and cheaper, that problem would solve itself?

NOW, here's the potential downsides as I see them...

No way you could fly this on a Merlin type steady rig, unless you shoot primes - a zoom lens will upset the delicate balance... so that's probably out. BUT, I see many people considering shoulder mount/rails/DV Rig type setups for these cams, and that makes some sense from what I've learned trying to steady small HD cameras... shaky cam footage is a mortal enemy with ANY HD shooting, and it requires a skilled camera op and good camera support to avoid it.

Now here's the REAL rub as I see it - the very thing that makes this so attractive may very well make it far from idea for "one shot" shooting situations... faster glass and wide aperatures make for great low light and shallow DOF... meaning your focus becomes SUPER critical, and the DSLR form factor is NOT all that well suited to maintaining a stable shot while adjusting focus while the "camera's rolling".

Again the skilled operator question rises to the top of the heap. I also do some photography, and it's enough of a PITA to nail focus for ONE frame, let alone trying to rack focus with any fine control while shooting 30fps... and isn't that what's got everyone hot for this camera??

Doesn't mean that I'm not looking for one when they start showing up secondhand from people who bought it and can't figure out what to do with it <wink>... just that for the moment I can't quite see it fitting my workflow and budget, which would require this to replace both still and video cameras. Then there's the question of whether you're shooting stills or video... dual mode cameras are a great idea, now can I get a "dual mode brain upgrade"?? Personally I'd prefer to wait for a video camera that shoots high res stills simultaneously, but you still have to remember to push the buttons in the right order at the right time!!

[Paul Cascio]

I really think the 5d MkII is is going to have a huge impact on the next generation of professional and prosumer camcorders. It has too. I can't imagine a serious videographer or moviemaker ever buying another camcorder that doesn't feature a full frame sensor. This camera has opened Pandora's box and the lid is not going back on.

[Dave Blackhurst]

No doubt this camera is going to be a major change of paradigm. I shoot both still and video, so I can see where a "one camera" approach has advantages. Juggling two cameras can be tricky, and I'm still not sure how "well" I do it, though it seems to work OK for certain aspects... and I'm not shooting alone, so that helps...

I've been using Sony's SR11 and CX12 (AVCHD video, and decent res stills in a pocket camera), and it's a fairly practical concept - quite handy, and acceptable results. Definitely far superior to anything available just a few years ago on the video and probably even the still side of the equation. But a DSLR is always better for stills... so that's in the bag too.

The Canon obviously comes at the question from the opposite end of the spectrum, where the primary "focus" is on FF high resolution stills, and the HD video is sort of a super duper bonus feature.

In my mind the real question is going to become... what form factor should "the camera" take as the future unfolds?? The sensor blocks and internal electronics/processing are just tools. Memory is just storage of 1's and 0's, and you should be able to shoot still and video simultaneously (the Sonys do)...

BUT... A DSLR isn't the best for shooting video, but then again many of the video cameras nowadays have poor or even just plain BAD ergonomics... or worse yet little or no access to manual controls in the "affordable" end of the market.

I think that we've got some interesting design exercises ahead of us - and I don't know that cameras will ever be the same - it's just a matter of time till there's a sensor/electronic/physical package that alters things even further and blurs the lines even more.

The real tricky thing is how the heck do you do the necessary mental division of labor to shoot "both" simultaneously... I believe the tools may have exceeded my current mental capacity to use them to the maximum creative effect... d8-P

I'm waiting for my next camera to have a "creative co-processor" - THAT's what I really need!! "Smile shutter" is a start!

[Paul Cascio]

In a sense, what Jim Jannard , of Red, is doing is simply taking the heart of these DSLRs and adding the extra components needed to makle them completely video capable. That's why he's been able to announce so many new cameras/configurations at once. It's a relatively simple formula really for someone with the requisite industry knowledge. Not me of course, I'm just a picture framer. :)

I have no doubt we'll see others do the same and we'll soon see the prices on such conversions coming down real fast. In fact, I think the next generation of Canon and Sony camcorders will be based on their respective full frame DSLRs.

The pitfall I see for Red is that modularity doesn't work well with fast-changing technology when at the same time prices fall rapidly. This has always been the case with high tech.