Listing Prices

[Andrew Waite]

I say post em! Sooner or later they are going to find out how much you are. As far as I know we are the most expensive service in our local market, so there isn't really much sense in trying to hide that to lure brides in before they find out about our prices. If they don't see your prices up front, they'll just ask you on the phone or via e-mail... not too many brides are going to setup an appointment with you without some expectation of price.

We also do not do packages such as "gold, silver, bronze, etc." It took a few years to figure that one out. You give the brides a cheeper option, they're just going to choose the cheapest option.... they don't care about equipment, high tech gadgets, or any of that crap. You can use lingo like cinematic, film like, artistic, bla bla bla all you want.... it's not going to sway too many brides. We do the whole "starting at $3,000" thing. It's worked out really well for us. By doing cookie cutter packages you are putting a cap on your pricing. You are pretty much limiting the amount of money you're ever going to get from a single event.

Also, you're not fooling anyone with Walmart pricing. What I mean by that is $2,995... just say $3,000. Seriously folks, you're not selling paper towels, you're selling a PROFESSIONAL service... that whole "people only see the first digit is BS! Do yourself a favor and round your price up to the nearest 100 dollars!

What ever your price is you need to be confident. Whether you post your pricing or not, at some point you have to tell the potential client your pricing. The best thing you can do for yourself is sound confident. Be clear, make it simple, after all you're worth every penny, in fact you're a bargain! right? The worst thing you can do is dance around the subject, stall, be unclear. If you doubt yourself and your pricing the client will see that. If you find yourself trying to convince the client of anything, you might as well give up, you lost the sale.

Moral of the story,what do you think you're worth? Don't worry too much about what everyone else is charging. Don't be afraid to raise your prices.... if you start loosing bookings you can always lower your price back down. I'll get off my soapbox now.

[Ethan Cooper]

Originally Posted by Andrew Waite

I say post em! Sooner or later they are going to find out how much you are. As far as I know we are the most expensive service in our local market, so there isn't really much sense in trying to hide that to lure brides in before they find out about our prices. If they don't see your prices up front, they'll just ask you on the phone or via e-mail... not too many brides are going to setup an appointment with you without some expectation of price.

We also do not do packages such as "gold, silver, bronze, etc." It took a few years to figure that one out. You give the brides a cheeper option, they're just going to choose the cheapest option.... they don't care about equipment, high tech gadgets, or any of that crap. You can use lingo like cinematic, film like, artistic, bla bla bla all you want.... it's not going to sway too many brides. We do the whole "starting at $3,000" thing. It's worked out really well for us. By doing cookie cutter packages you are putting a cap on your pricing. You are pretty much limiting the amount of money you're ever going to get from a single event.

Also, you're not fooling anyone with Walmart pricing. What I mean by that is $2,995... just say $3,000. Seriously folks, you're not selling paper towels, you're selling a PROFESSIONAL service... that whole "people only see the first digit is BS! Do yourself a favor and round your price up to the nearest 100 dollars!

What ever your price is you need to be confident. Whether you post your pricing or not, at some point you have to tell the potential client your pricing. The best thing you can do for yourself is sound confident. Be clear, make it simple, after all you're worth every penny, in fact you're a bargain! right? The worst thing you can do is dance around the subject, stall, be unclear. If you doubt yourself and your pricing the client will see that. If you find yourself trying to convince the client of anything, you might as well give up, you lost the sale.

Moral of the story,what do you think you're worth? Don't worry too much about what everyone else is charging. Don't be afraid to raise your prices.... if you start loosing bookings you can always lower your price back down. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Andrew - while I don't agree with all your points to the letter, I can say that it was fun reading a blunt post from a plain spoken guy.

As far as offering packages goes I can only give you the opinion of someone who has only offered packages, so take it for what it's worth. I've found that people do not gravitate toward the cheapest option, but rather the middle choices.

[Andrew Waite]

Ethan -
Thanks. Packages can work... if they work for you great. I did packages for a while and I got by, but I think the trick is to be smart about the way in which you structure your packages. If it's just extra time you add on or maybe an extra camera or something, you might not have much success selling that higher package, I didn't.

I have had a lot of success with custom pricing. I have a base price of $3,000 for weddings that can be built upon. I also do not go into too many details, number of cameras, etc. $3,000 gets you your wedding film. I use Steadicam, I use 35mm adapters, I use Indiesliders, I use wireless mics, I use all that crap... but I don't try to explain it to bride, they really don't care. Plus it just raises more questions like... "if i don't want those things, can I get a cheeper price?" I don't want that. It's also nice not going into too many details about equipment, because come the wedding day you have a problem with a certain gadget, you're ok! They weren't expecting it, so they're not going to question why you are not using your steadicam, or why you only had 3 cameras and not 4. The less promises you make, the less promises you have to keep, the less chances you are giving yourself to screw things up. I don't think it's your equipment you should be selling, it's YOUR ABILITIES! I'm going to repeat that....

It's not your equipment you should be selling, it's your abilities as a professional videographer!

With that said, I would never want a bride to think that I'm compromising quality with a bronze, silver, gold, package scale. That's my reasons for not doing packages. But, if it works for you, it works for you. If it's not broke, don't fix it! :)

Andrew Waite
Higher Definition Media
www.higherdefinitionmedia.com

[Daniel Fessak]

I agree completely about selling yourself based on what you use. 99% of the people you deal with have no idea what all the different equipment you use is, so what difference does it make to them what you use? Why confuse them?

I hate it when people make a big deal that they use a 3CCD camera. Who doesn't? Or what program they edit with. Final Cut or Avid? I hate Final Cut, I think it's the work of the devil, but at the end of the day it doesn't make a difference what you edit on. It's the skill of the cameraman and editor that determines how good the video is. I make it a point to tell people this when I speak with them and it helps me because they see I'm going to be honest with them and they like that.

[Ethan Cooper]

Originally Posted by Daniel Fessak

I hate Final Cut, I think it's the work of the devil

Them's fightin' word round these parts mister.

Final Cut saved my life, made me thinner, gave me fuller thicker hair, and lowered my taxes. I'd slap a dress on that bundle of code and marry her if I could.

[Andrew Waite]

HAHAHA... it's not the size that counts, it's how you use it, right? or how often you use it!

I happen to love FCP. For years I used Premiere Pro and even tried Vegas before falling in love with FCP.

But, I agree with you in that brides don't give a flying rats ass about CCDs and NLEs.

[Daniel Fessak]

I don't want to turn this into any kind of war or anything because I know there are people who really like Final Cut, but there are just things in it that make no sense to me such as...

-the inability to copy individual key frames
-instead of importing a file into the program, it just references it
-whenever you do a video fade, 99% of the time you do an audio fade of the same exact length, but yet audio and video fades are considered 2 separate effects that can not both be done together with one keystroke
-it is always in what avid calls "segment mode"
-the keyboard is not mapped for speed. I can do everything (almost at least) on an avid without having to move my hand from the JKL position.
-Apple, which has made billions of dollars with IPods, does not support mp3s for Final Cut

Like I said, I know people like it and I admit the ability to make chyrons and credits in it are really cool and easy, but the things I mentioned just drive me crazy.

Once again, don't want to start anything and understand that everyone has their own preferences.

And back to the original topic, I have seen someone on their website say to potential customers that if they upgrade their package then instead of doing fades, they will do dissolves. Insane!

[Ethan Cooper]

Originally Posted by Daniel Fessak

-Apple, which has made billions of dollars with IPods, does not support mp3s for Final Cut

They can give us DVDSP, Soundtrack Pro, Motion, Color, incorporate some Shake goodies and they still haven't fixed this. That's the only point I'll give you out of your list, the rest comes with being familiar with the program. I was trained on Avid myself, used a media composer for 3 years, and am still a convert to the Church of Apple. Just so you know where I'm coming from.

Like I said, I know people like it and I admit the ability to make chyrons and credits in it are really cool and easy, but the things I mentioned just drive me crazy.

You said chyrons! How old school. I've actually used a Chyron when I worked in TV, talk about something to hate. Thank god technology has gotten us past that hell.

[Mark Von Lanken]

Originally Posted by Andrew Waite

...What ever your price is you need to be confident. Whether you post your pricing or not, at some point you have to tell the potential client your pricing. The best thing you can do for yourself is sound confident. Be clear, make it simple, after all you're worth every penny, in fact you're a bargain! right? The worst thing you can do is dance around the subject, stall, be unclear. If you doubt yourself and your pricing the client will see that. If you find yourself trying to convince the client of anything, you might as well give up, you lost the sale.

Moral of the story,what do you think you're worth? Don't worry too much about what everyone else is charging. Don't be afraid to raise your prices.... if you start loosing bookings you can always lower your price back down. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Hi Andrew,

You hit the nail right on the head. I could not agree more. Great post. Do you have any other soapboxes? I would love to hear them.

[Andrew Waite]

Thanks Mark,

Yeah, I didn't mean to get so preachy, it's just that I'm very passionate about video production and I want nothing more than for the industry to improve. At least in my market, video is not very popular. I'm working very hard in my market to change the way brides look at wedding video.

With that said... I'm done soap boxing, but I do have a few pet peeves when it comes to the way some videographers choose to market themselves. For example, I can't stand when certain phrases are used in marketing materials such as: cutting edge, state of the art, best quality possible, broadcast quality, EXCLUSIVE, industry leading, etc.

Who are you fooling? You might be fooling the bride, you're definitely fooling yourself. Unless you are shooting weddings with a prototype Red Epic you probably shouldn't be using any of the those phrases in your marketing materials... with the exception of broadcast quality, however, if you are using HDV cameras, some would even argue that point as well. Phrases like cutting edge and state of the art get tossed around all to easily these days, much like the word "gourmet" with microwaveable TV dinners. Again, unless you are using the absolute (emphasis on the ABSOLUTE part) best equipment out there, then just leave it at professional. Even then, most of us are using "pro-sumer' equipment. Either way, it doesn't matter, as I stated before, equipment is not important, it's how you use it.. or better put, what you can do with it! And I'm sorry, but if you think you offer something that is exclusive, think again.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! Hopefully I'm not pissing off too many people in this forum. Anyone who knows me personally, knows I'm blunt.

[William Dortignac]

Originally Posted by Andrew Waite

Thanks Mark,
And I'm sorry, but if you think you offer something that is exclusive, think again.

Aww, come on. Everybody has an exclusive product to offer. The difference is, it's either exclusively good, or exclusively BAD! it's exclusive one way or the other ; )

[Tim Harjo]

Originally Posted by Andrew Waite

Thanks Mark,

Yeah, I didn't mean to get so preachy, it's just that I'm very passionate about video production and I want nothing more than for the industry to improve. At least in my market, video is not very popular. I'm working very hard in my market to change the way brides look at wedding video.

With that said... I'm done soap boxing, but I do have a few pet peeves when it comes to the way some videographers choose to market themselves. For example, I can't stand when certain phrases are used in marketing materials such as: cutting edge, state of the art, best quality possible, broadcast quality, EXCLUSIVE, industry leading, etc.

Who are you fooling? You might be fooling the bride, you're definitely fooling yourself. Unless you are shooting weddings with a prototype Red Epic you probably shouldn't be using any of the those phrases in your marketing materials... with the exception of broadcast quality, however, if you are using HDV cameras, some would even argue that point as well. Phrases like cutting edge and state of the art get tossed around all to easily these days, much like the word "gourmet" with microwaveable TV dinners. Again, unless you are using the absolute (emphasis on the ABSOLUTE part) best equipment out there, then just leave it at professional. Even then, most of us are using "pro-sumer' equipment. Either way, it doesn't matter, as I stated before, equipment is not important, it's how you use it.. or better put, what you can do with it! And I'm sorry, but if you think you offer something that is exclusive, think again.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! Hopefully I'm not pissing off too many people in this forum. Anyone who knows me personally, knows I'm blunt.

Sounds like you've got it all figured out.

[Andrew Waite]

just my two cents. maybe it might help someone just starting out, maybe it will rub others the wrong way, but maybe it will cause someone to rethink the lingo used their marketing materials. i don't know. just my opinion, i'm happy to give it to someone when asked (i'd like to know what you thing mark). i'm no marketing genius... just a wannabe cinematographer.

[Andrew Waite]

Originally Posted by William Dortignac

Aww, come on. Everybody has an exclusive product to offer. The difference is, it's either exclusively good, or exclusively BAD! it's exclusive one way or the other ; )

good point william. you are right there! it's hard to be original, it's even harder to do something that hasn't been done before with so many brilliant minds out there in the video world. for example, i came up with this great idea to superimpose the loch ness monster in to one of my wedding highlights, but someone else beat me to it. YouTube - Who Needs a Movie?

[Matthew Ebenezer]

If you list all your prices and packages on your website then it could be argued that you're missing out on a opportunity to connect with a potential client, show them a bit more of your personality etc ...

It's a chance to build on a relationship with your client that started with them visiting your website and liking your work enough to give you some more of their attention by sending you an e-mail or calling you.

In a lot of ways it's not just about selling your 'work' or your 'product' - it's so important to sell yourself as well. A client making contact with you is great opportunity to do that.

That's why we only list our starting price on the website.

Something I've seen a few people do (mainly photographers) is to actually list the range of prices they have. i.e. starting from $2,800 and going up to $10,000. Not sure what I think of that approach yet but it's something to consider.

Cheers,

Matthew.