Live Event Questions: S-video Cable Length & More

Mick Haensler · October 3rd, 2008, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Robinson

Are you referring to WJ-MX50 units, or a different kind of mixer. The Panasonic units seem ancient, though I don't know how their age compares to the MX-1 units.

Yep that's the one. They are old but in my experience, pretty reliable. I still borrow one from a friend of mine on occasion when I need a backup on a tight budget show. All I can say is I've never had an issue. That being said....buyer beware when buying anything used.

Mick Haensler
Higher Ground Media

Jason Robinson · October 3rd, 2008, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick Haensler

Yep that's the one. They are old but in my experience, pretty reliable. I still borrow one from a friend of mine on occasion when I need a backup on a tight budget show. All I can say is I've never had an issue. That being said....buyer beware when buying anything used.

Mick Haensler
Higher Ground Media

yes I'm always a little wary. Do you remember if the unit can do PiP? I have been reading through the manual and I cannot find a reference to PiP anywhere. IF not PiP, then split screen. I need to be able to put a camera feed from backstage as PiP or top 1/3 (etc etc) on top of a wide angle of the stage. IS that possible with the Panasonic unit?

Richard Alvarez · October 3rd, 2008, 12:15 PM

Don't have their manuals in front of me, but as I recall almost all of the units will do a 'corner wipe' PiP sort of deal. So it's probably possible as a transition at the very least. But again, check to make sure it 'grows' in instead of 'flows' in. In other words a corner wipe that enlarges the other shot out of the corner instead of revealing the other shot from out of the corner.

Mick Haensler · October 4th, 2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Robinson

yes I'm always a little wary. Do you remember if the unit can do PiP? I have been reading through the manual and I cannot find a reference to PiP anywhere. IF not PiP, then split screen. I need to be able to put a camera feed from backstage as PiP or top 1/3 (etc etc) on top of a wide angle of the stage. IS that possible with the Panasonic unit?

I honestly don't know. I've never had need of that feature.

Mick Haensler
Higher Ground Media

Jason Robinson · October 4th, 2008, 01:13 PM

I have received confirmation that the s-video cable run needs to be around 250' to go from on stage, down the side, into a tunnel, and up the audience seating area to the AV platform in the back. The AV tech I talked to seemed to think that no boosters would be needed, but there is no way I'm buying a single 300' cable (would be useless to me for anything else). However, 3x100' cables would be useful, so now I need to test and see if that much cable causes signal problems for our on stage camera.

Anyone have experience running video 300' in any format? If so, what cable did you use? I'm not tied to S-video, but from what I can tell, s-video is cheaper to run longer distances than RGB, Coax, BNC, composite, etc. Is that correct? Picture quality really doesn't have to be great, since this would be for a PiP or split screen on a SD DVD burned live at the event (in other words, no two-pass rendering ,etc).

Richard Alvarez · October 5th, 2008, 01:44 PM

As stated, look into running via Cat-5 with Baluns connectors.

http://www.svideo.com/svideobalun.html

Shaun Roemich · October 5th, 2008, 02:18 PM

I do a fair bit of multi camera live switched stuff and have had VERY mixed results with DVD-R recorders. I've had a few outright failures in terms of being able to access the discs afterward. FYI.

Colin McDonald · October 5th, 2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich

I do a fair bit of multi camera live switched stuff and have had VERY mixed results with DVD-R recorders. I've had a few outright failures in terms of being able to access the discs afterward. FYI.

I've had one with digitally garbled audio. Wish I'd run it in to a DV tape or FireStore as well as the DVD recorder. Needless to say it was the final Act of the last night of a week of performances. Any other part wouldn't have mattered so much. Next time I do double audio just to be sure. Moral: if it can happen - it will, sooner or later.

Richard Alvarez · October 5th, 2008, 02:59 PM

For sure Murphy will rule in any live event situation. Double redundancy is always a good idea. When we do remote, we record to the hard drive of the Tricaster, A DVD-R copy in a seperate burner, and a S-VHS tape all in the portable flypack. This is in addition to broadcasting direct to Comcast and streaming over the internet.

Expec the unexpected. Remember, if you have a loss of power, most DVD-R burners will lose your disc - you won't be able to finalize what you have on it. So its best to keep your burner on a UPS in such an emergency.

Jason Robinson · October 5th, 2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich

I do a fair bit of multi camera live switched stuff and have had VERY mixed results with DVD-R recorders. I've had a few outright failures in terms of being able to access the discs afterward. FYI.

I did a dry run last night with the newly purchased Toshiba D-R410. Pretty nice. Worked with out a problem. S-video in and out (complete pass through too so if the unit is off, the input L1 just gets passed right through). It also has 1394 on the front (along with s-video, and the three RCAs). I haven't tested the 1394 yet and probably won't ever unless I am burning straight from one camera.

I burned at SP mode (2hrs on a single layer DVD-r) and then the final 30 seconds of the disc on XP mode (1hr per single side disc). Seemed to work just fine. Finalization took a minute, which is when the player creates menus for each recording session.

I'll be testing it in a realistic setup of the upcoming concert to see if it can do 8min burns and then finalize fast enough to be done in time for the next group. I will be keeping an eye on compatibility issues like you mentioned, and hopefully only using Sony DVD-R discs and only burning at the normal XP more (1hr per single layer disc) will eliminate many of those problems.

We will actually have two of these DVD recorders on hand in case finalization takes too long with one. Then we will switch to the second burner and let the first finish.

Jason Robinson · October 5th, 2008, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Alvarez

Expec the unexpected. Remember, if you have a loss of power, most DVD-R burners will lose your disc - you won't be able to finalize what you have on it. So its best to keep your burner on a UPS in such an emergency.

I already have a small PC UPS lined up just for the burner and should be able to power it for a minute or so. I also have a much larger UPS (1000VAmp) for the live mixer, webcaster, & backup PC that can probably last 3 minutes or so with all three attached (may be).

Andrew McWeeny · October 6th, 2008, 11:29 AM

I use S-Video/Stereo Baluns from Black Box Canada $153Cdn per pair. I've run a 1000' of Cat5 without any loss in video quality.

S-Video/Stereo Balun - Blackbox Canada

William Dortignac · October 13th, 2008, 10:09 PM

hey, I'm totally new at this, so I'm wondering...(if someone can fill me in)

I'm trying to do something similar, only I don't need to edit right away. I just wanna run three cameras into one monitor/laptop/computer for overseeing purposes during a live event shoot.

my question is, what would be the best way to go about doing this?
I was told by one source that I would need a switcher.

I'm totally green. and most of this stuff (switchers and stuff) is a foriegn concept

If I need a switcher, what would be a good one to buy? (I would rather not spend over $1000)
How do switchers work?

sorry for asking so many stupid sounding questions, but that's how I learn things.

Thanks

BTW Jason,
This Event you are talking about wouldn't happen to be a SPEBSQSA event would it?
Just wondering.

October 4th, 2008, 01:13 PM	#20
Jason Robinson Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 1,997	Additional Info I have received confirmation that the s-video cable run needs to be around 250' to go from on stage, down the side, into a tunnel, and up the audience seating area to the AV platform in the back. The AV tech I talked to seemed to think that no boosters would be needed, but there is no way I'm buying a single 300' cable (would be useless to me for anything else). However, 3x100' cables would be useful, so now I need to test and see if that much cable causes signal problems for our on stage camera. Anyone have experience running video 300' in any format? If so, what cable did you use? I'm not tied to S-video, but from what I can tell, s-video is cheaper to run longer distances than RGB, Coax, BNC, composite, etc. Is that correct? Picture quality really doesn't have to be great, since this would be for a PiP or split screen on a SD DVD burned live at the event (in other words, no two-pass rendering ,etc).

October 5th, 2008, 02:18 PM	#22
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	I do a fair bit of multi camera live switched stuff and have had VERY mixed results with DVD-R recorders. I've had a few outright failures in terms of being able to access the discs afterward. FYI. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

October 3rd, 2008, 12:15 PM	#18
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Don't have their manuals in front of me, but as I recall almost all of the units will do a 'corner wipe' PiP sort of deal. So it's probably possible as a transition at the very least. But again, check to make sure it 'grows' in instead of 'flows' in. In other words a corner wipe that enlarges the other shot out of the corner instead of revealing the other shot from out of the corner.

October 5th, 2008, 01:44 PM	#21
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	As stated, look into running via Cat-5 with Baluns connectors. http://www.svideo.com/svideobalun.html

October 5th, 2008, 02:59 PM	#24
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	For sure Murphy will rule in any live event situation. Double redundancy is always a good idea. When we do remote, we record to the hard drive of the Tricaster, A DVD-R copy in a seperate burner, and a S-VHS tape all in the portable flypack. This is in addition to broadcasting direct to Comcast and streaming over the internet. Expec the unexpected. Remember, if you have a loss of power, most DVD-R burners will lose your disc - you won't be able to finalize what you have on it. So its best to keep your burner on a UPS in such an emergency.

October 6th, 2008, 11:29 AM	#27
Andrew McWeeny New Boot Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Nepean, Ontario Posts: 18	I use S-Video/Stereo Baluns from Black Box Canada $153Cdn per pair. I've run a 1000' of Cat5 without any loss in video quality. S-Video/Stereo Balun - Blackbox Canada

October 13th, 2008, 10:09 PM	#28
William Dortignac Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Whittier, CA Posts: 40	hey, I'm totally new at this, so I'm wondering...(if someone can fill me in) I'm trying to do something similar, only I don't need to edit right away. I just wanna run three cameras into one monitor/laptop/computer for overseeing purposes during a live event shoot. my question is, what would be the best way to go about doing this? I was told by one source that I would need a switcher. I'm totally green. and most of this stuff (switchers and stuff) is a foriegn concept If I need a switcher, what would be a good one to buy? (I would rather not spend over $1000) How do switchers work? sorry for asking so many stupid sounding questions, but that's how I learn things. Thanks BTW Jason, This Event you are talking about wouldn't happen to be a SPEBSQSA event would it? Just wondering.