Audio for weddings Question... at DVinfo.net

Kelsey Emuss · July 30th, 2008, 06:54 PM

I am really struggling to decide WHO to mike?! I use an AZDEN WMS-Pro wireless mike and I'm wondering if the problem is that it isn't powerful enough.

My problem...If I mike the groom then I get great audio of him and so-so audio of Bride and officiant. If I mike the officiant I find they end up holding a sermon book or something and inadvertently put up a sound barrier for B&G.

Then I run into the prob where I mike one or the other and then I pick up NO AUDIO from whoever is saying a reading!!! Sometimes I think no mike would be better but then I pick up EVERY little cough etc. ARGH!!!

Any suggestions? I have a GL2 if that matters!

Thanks!

Tim Harjo · July 30th, 2008, 07:05 PM

Others will chime in, I'm sure of it, but as for me, I use 2 wireless mics. One for the groom and one for the officiant. I have a second cam in the back to pick up ambient room noise. And I am still falling short. I'm getting ready to buy another wireless for the podium to get better audio for the readings. This setup really is just the minimum if you are going to get a better recording than Uncle Hank in the 3rd row.

Also having 4 mics (1 in the back of the church, 1 for the podium, 1 for the minister and 1 for the bride) will not get you a great recording if there is live music. aghhh. it never ends. But you have to draw the line somewhere. 4 mics will be enough for me for now.

As far as what you said about putting the mic on the groom to capture the bride, This has worked well. Sometimes you get a quiet bride, but most of the time I just need to punch up the volume in post to get good audio out of the bride.

Vito DeFilippo · July 30th, 2008, 07:05 PM

Hi Kelsey,

More mics are better, but you might have limitations of budget, time to setup, or reluctance of someone to wear one.

If you only have one, mic the groom. Hopefully with some work in editing, you can get acceptable sound of the bride and much of what the minister says as well.

If you have two, mic the groom and the podium where readings take place. With more mics, add the minister if you can talk him into it. You can mic the musicians, too, if possible.

Some places will let you tap into the house system to record what's coming over the PA system. That can be good. One church even gave me a copy of the ceremony on CD, which was great.

You can use small, non-wireless recorders as well. Don't have to be wireless to the camera. You just sync up the sound in the edit.

Rick Steele · July 30th, 2008, 08:04 PM

It's that Azden. You fell for oldest marketing gimmick in the book (put "Pro" in the name and people will buy it).

A better kit will pick up the bride quite well from the groom's lapel.

David Schuurman · July 30th, 2008, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Some places will let you tap into the house system to record what's coming over the PA system

I always thought this was the greatest solution, until the church sound guy didn't raise the levels until halfway through the ministers address. Though it is good to do in addition to your own solution.

has anyone found it useful to mic the groom AND hide a shotgun in the first pew or something like that?

Rick Steele · July 30th, 2008, 10:18 PM

Quote:

has anyone found it useful to mic the groom AND hide a shotgun in the first pew or something like that?

Unless that pew is 2 feet away from the groom's mouth the shotgun is worthless. (Actually, all shotguns are worthless for weddings IMO).

Just mic the minister and the groom. (and make sure you're using a decent lav system for the groom).

Michael Y Wong · July 30th, 2008, 10:31 PM

^^ 100% Agreed with Rick here.

To take it up a notch re redundency just in case when going the wireless route, have a backup recorder on the groom even if he already has a wireless mic on him already; simply because you never know what can happen.

Bill Grant · July 30th, 2008, 11:04 PM

I typically mic only the groom with a senn G2. I use an Iriver on the minister if he'll wear it, another iriver for readers/podium, and a Zoom H2 for musicians. Typically I end up only needing the grooms mic, but good to have the others. I would say definately at a minimum upgrade to the senn g2 before you go get another azden. just my 2 cents...
Bill

Renton Maclachlan · July 31st, 2008, 12:36 AM

Seems like Giantsquids and irivers aren't favour of the month around here, but for around $50 for a mic setup (GS=$US25, and Iriver for say $US25 off ebay), how can you possibly go wrong? I've got six ($300 or less) - shove them on anyone or anywhere I like - father of bride, father of groom, groom, officiant, podium, with a spare for anyone or anywhere else.

Dean Fairburn · July 31st, 2008, 04:48 AM

Agree with Bill. Senn G2 is a great piece of equipment. Never encountered any interference, we only mic the groom and never had any difficulties hearing the bride/officiant (slight boost in post very occasionally required). We have Rode shotguns and a Zoom H2 for readings. Very rarely call upon the shotguns apart from Hymns where groom's singing is best not heard! Definitely won't get clean audio from shotguns alone.

Vince Baker · July 31st, 2008, 04:57 AM

Fully agree with Renton....I have 4 of GS+iRivers and although the sound is never going to match a senn, I have never had and reason to change.

Speech is clear with acceptable clarity and as you say, cheap as chips (if you can find one!) and you can mic everyone!

My only concern is when they become less and less easy to find (difficult as it is now) and if mine die.

I have been checking the opinions on here for the Olympus range, seems like a potential upgrade option for us iRiver fans?

Don Bloom · July 31st, 2008, 05:27 AM

I mic the GROOM and the LECTERN with wireless-My shotgun on the 2nd cam helps to get the ambient sound and music as does the hypercaroid on my primary camera however my typicall post process is to take ALL the MUSIC from cam 2 shotgun and use it and all the VOICE comes from cam 1-the grooms mic gets everything said on the altar and the lectern mic gets the everything said there as well as music although the music is generally rather low it is a good time track for cam 2.

I much prefer to monitor all of my audio so therefore I don't use recording devices but to each their own.
The Azden unit you have is not the best BUT I used old Radio Shack VHF gear years and years ago and it works if you know how to work it. Proper mic placement proper levels ETC. Gotta play with the gear before you put it into play. That said, a better unit will bring better results.

Don

Rick Steele · July 31st, 2008, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton Maclachlan

Seems like Giantsquids and irivers aren't favour of the month around here, but for around $50 for a mic setup (GS=$US25, and Iriver for say $US25 off ebay), how can you possibly go wrong?

I guess you haven't been on ebay lately. Show my one for $25 and I'll buy it.

It's time to get off the iRiver bandwagon - not because they don't work (I have 5)... simply because they're too hard to find these days. For those of you that have them I would hope you're looking at alternative replacements.

Kelsey Emuss · July 31st, 2008, 07:36 AM

Thanks everyone!

Dumb question...If I have 2 cameras and 4 wireless mikes what am I plugging them into to capture the sound? Can you tell I'm new to this!? lol!

Michael Liebergot · July 31st, 2008, 10:32 AM

We try to keep the Ceremony simple.

1. Wireless on Groom with Omni lav mic. For backup purposes, the feed goes to both Camera 1 and camera 2, using one transmitter on the groom and two recievers (one on each camera).

2. Shotgun mic on both cameras for ambient audio and room tone.

3. Small recorder (either Edirol R09 or Marantz PMD620) on podium for readings using the built in mics. Works great and simple to setup. Test before hand, place on top of the podium, push record and go. Sync as needed in post.

4. Musicians if any are playing, which we get often, a Zoom H2 recorder on a mic stand set to 2CH or 4CH record mode. What this enables us to do is record from both sides (front, 90 degrees and Rear, 120 degrees) of the H2. 2CH mode records front and rear in stereo pairs. And 4CH mode lets you record using all 4 mic elements. You can get a real nice natural sound by recording in these modes. Very little noise, and it's simple to do. Screw H2 onto a mic stand, test, push record and go. Sync up in post as needed.

5. We normally don't worry about micing an officant as he's normally either near the couple or speaking on the podium. If he won't be speaking by either and moving a lot, then we will wire him with another recorder and a lav mic, and use in post as needed.

So that's 2 wireless systems (you can use only one if you don't want redundancy) and 2 or 3 recorders, and that's it.

I don't like the iRivers as they have failed me in post too many times and record at inferior compressed MP3 audio. But mainly because they don't have removable media as these other recorders do, and you don't have built in mics if needed like these new small recorders do.

July 30th, 2008, 06:54 PM	#1
Kelsey Emuss Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada Posts: 259	Audio for weddings Question... I am really struggling to decide WHO to mike?! I use an AZDEN WMS-Pro wireless mike and I'm wondering if the problem is that it isn't powerful enough. My problem...If I mike the groom then I get great audio of him and so-so audio of Bride and officiant. If I mike the officiant I find they end up holding a sermon book or something and inadvertently put up a sound barrier for B&G. Then I run into the prob where I mike one or the other and then I pick up NO AUDIO from whoever is saying a reading!!! Sometimes I think no mike would be better but then I pick up EVERY little cough etc. ARGH!!! Any suggestions? I have a GL2 if that matters! Thanks!

July 30th, 2008, 07:05 PM	#3
Vito DeFilippo Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 1,585	Hi Kelsey, More mics are better, but you might have limitations of budget, time to setup, or reluctance of someone to wear one. If you only have one, mic the groom. Hopefully with some work in editing, you can get acceptable sound of the bride and much of what the minister says as well. If you have two, mic the groom and the podium where readings take place. With more mics, add the minister if you can talk him into it. You can mic the musicians, too, if possible. Some places will let you tap into the house system to record what's coming over the PA system. That can be good. One church even gave me a copy of the ceremony on CD, which was great. You can use small, non-wireless recorders as well. Don't have to be wireless to the camera. You just sync up the sound in the edit. __________________ . http://www.nosmallroles.com

July 30th, 2008, 10:31 PM	#7
Michael Y Wong Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Toronto Ontario Canada! Posts: 353	^^ 100% Agreed with Rick here. To take it up a notch re redundency just in case when going the wireless route, have a backup recorder on the groom even if he already has a wireless mic on him already; simply because you never know what can happen. __________________ dreaming hobbyist + storyteller www.michaelywong.com

July 31st, 2008, 10:32 AM	#15
Michael Liebergot Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,505	We try to keep the Ceremony simple. 1. Wireless on Groom with Omni lav mic. For backup purposes, the feed goes to both Camera 1 and camera 2, using one transmitter on the groom and two recievers (one on each camera). 2. Shotgun mic on both cameras for ambient audio and room tone. 3. Small recorder (either Edirol R09 or Marantz PMD620) on podium for readings using the built in mics. Works great and simple to setup. Test before hand, place on top of the podium, push record and go. Sync as needed in post. 4. Musicians if any are playing, which we get often, a Zoom H2 recorder on a mic stand set to 2CH or 4CH record mode. What this enables us to do is record from both sides (front, 90 degrees and Rear, 120 degrees) of the H2. 2CH mode records front and rear in stereo pairs. And 4CH mode lets you record using all 4 mic elements. You can get a real nice natural sound by recording in these modes. Very little noise, and it's simple to do. Screw H2 onto a mic stand, test, push record and go. Sync up in post as needed. 5. We normally don't worry about micing an officant as he's normally either near the couple or speaking on the podium. If he won't be speaking by either and moving a lot, then we will wire him with another recorder and a lav mic, and use in post as needed. So that's 2 wireless systems (you can use only one if you don't want redundancy) and 2 or 3 recorders, and that's it. I don't like the iRivers as they have failed me in post too many times and record at inferior compressed MP3 audio. But mainly because they don't have removable media as these other recorders do, and you don't have built in mics if needed like these new small recorders do. __________________ Michael www.lvpvideo.com

July 30th, 2008, 07:05 PM	#2
Tim Harjo Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 195	Others will chime in, I'm sure of it, but as for me, I use 2 wireless mics. One for the groom and one for the officiant. I have a second cam in the back to pick up ambient room noise. And I am still falling short. I'm getting ready to buy another wireless for the podium to get better audio for the readings. This setup really is just the minimum if you are going to get a better recording than Uncle Hank in the 3rd row. Also having 4 mics (1 in the back of the church, 1 for the podium, 1 for the minister and 1 for the bride) will not get you a great recording if there is live music. aghhh. it never ends. But you have to draw the line somewhere. 4 mics will be enough for me for now. As far as what you said about putting the mic on the groom to capture the bride, This has worked well. Sometimes you get a quiet bride, but most of the time I just need to punch up the volume in post to get good audio out of the bride.

July 30th, 2008, 08:04 PM	#4
Rick Steele Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Denver, Colorado USA Posts: 654	It's that Azden. You fell for oldest marketing gimmick in the book (put "Pro" in the name and people will buy it). A better kit will pick up the bride quite well from the groom's lapel.

July 30th, 2008, 11:04 PM	#8
Bill Grant Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 806	I typically mic only the groom with a senn G2. I use an Iriver on the minister if he'll wear it, another iriver for readers/podium, and a Zoom H2 for musicians. Typically I end up only needing the grooms mic, but good to have the others. I would say definately at a minimum upgrade to the senn g2 before you go get another azden. just my 2 cents... Bill

July 31st, 2008, 12:36 AM	#9
Renton Maclachlan Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,180	Seems like Giantsquids and irivers aren't favour of the month around here, but for around $50 for a mic setup (GS=$US25, and Iriver for say $US25 off ebay), how can you possibly go wrong? I've got six ($300 or less) - shove them on anyone or anywhere I like - father of bride, father of groom, groom, officiant, podium, with a spare for anyone or anywhere else.

July 31st, 2008, 04:48 AM	#10
Dean Fairburn New Boot Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 14	Agree with Bill. Senn G2 is a great piece of equipment. Never encountered any interference, we only mic the groom and never had any difficulties hearing the bride/officiant (slight boost in post very occasionally required). We have Rode shotguns and a Zoom H2 for readings. Very rarely call upon the shotguns apart from Hymns where groom's singing is best not heard! Definitely won't get clean audio from shotguns alone.

July 31st, 2008, 04:57 AM	#11
Vince Baker Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 118	Fully agree with Renton....I have 4 of GS+iRivers and although the sound is never going to match a senn, I have never had and reason to change. Speech is clear with acceptable clarity and as you say, cheap as chips (if you can find one!) and you can mic everyone! My only concern is when they become less and less easy to find (difficult as it is now) and if mine die. I have been checking the opinions on here for the Olympus range, seems like a potential upgrade option for us iRiver fans?

July 31st, 2008, 05:27 AM	#12
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	I mic the GROOM and the LECTERN with wireless-My shotgun on the 2nd cam helps to get the ambient sound and music as does the hypercaroid on my primary camera however my typicall post process is to take ALL the MUSIC from cam 2 shotgun and use it and all the VOICE comes from cam 1-the grooms mic gets everything said on the altar and the lectern mic gets the everything said there as well as music although the music is generally rather low it is a good time track for cam 2. I much prefer to monitor all of my audio so therefore I don't use recording devices but to each their own. The Azden unit you have is not the best BUT I used old Radio Shack VHF gear years and years ago and it works if you know how to work it. Proper mic placement proper levels ETC. Gotta play with the gear before you put it into play. That said, a better unit will bring better results. Don

July 31st, 2008, 07:36 AM	#14
Kelsey Emuss Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada Posts: 259	Thanks everyone! Dumb question...If I have 2 cameras and 4 wireless mikes what am I plugging them into to capture the sound? Can you tell I'm new to this!? lol!