Looking for some feedback... at DVinfo.net

Philip Gioja · June 24th, 2008, 11:55 PM

Hi - I don't do this very often but I just finished this piece a couple weeks ago and was looking for some feedback.

http://www.centerstreetproductions.c...ateAndMatt.mov

Part of the reason I'm posting this is because I've been getting a bit burned out and am trying to decide if I should raise my prices or quit the wedding business completely and go after corporate work. I really liked this piece though, and I can't decide what I should do.

Thanks guys!

Philip Gioja · June 26th, 2008, 08:19 AM

Bummer... I didn't think it was as bad as all that... (-;

Alastair Brown · June 26th, 2008, 09:06 AM

Not bad.....just LONG! Probably too long to hold our attention. I think most stuff put up for critique here is about the 3min mark, whereas this is more like the whole lot.

How about trying to post a cut down version?

Philip Gioja · June 26th, 2008, 09:52 AM

I guess that's one of the things that I've been questioning and have noticed on this board - everyone always posts 3 minute music video style highlights reels, but I feel like to get to know the couple for real you really do need some time to develop the story and hear them out. I guess there are some long dancing sections, etc, that could be cut down to make a quick review more palatable, so I'll take a look at that again and see what I can do.

Zach Stewart · June 26th, 2008, 11:25 AM

I agree - not bad, but not my style. Its more of the documentary approach which is cool but I would go crazy if I had to record EVERYTHING waiting on the little sound bites that make those moments special. Also, I think most of the clients I work with like the fact that we are almost invisible the day of and with the docu style it requires more hands on interaction the whole time.

The footage could use some CC and Grading to make it pop but good job overall. I thought the editing and story was fine.

Terry Esslinger · June 26th, 2008, 12:18 PM

I liked this couple, They were a videographers dream, especially if you were going to do it documentary style. The bouquet toss was priceless and the cake chase was fun. This was probably too long to post here but I waited it out and watched the whole thing and was rewarded because I did. Technically maybe some of the scenes were a little shaky, no glidecam shots (I don't have one either), maybe could have used some color work, and maybe the audio needed some additional miking. But I think this is quite represenattive of the documentary style and the couple should really enjoy it. You have provided them with a lasting memory and should be proud. To keep yourself interested maybe you should try a glidecam, or doing something in a different editing style (see http://www.cube-edit.co.il/cube.htm) not that that style is better, just different (and a lot more post work which you could probably never get paid for). Just looking for a way to challange yourself to renew the fire which sounds like it is dwindling.
Good luck.

Philip Gioja · June 26th, 2008, 12:29 PM

"I would go crazy if I had to record EVERYTHING waiting on the little sound bites that make those moments special."

I totally understand your sentiment there -- takes a lot of patience. I really love it when I get them though. My favorite in this one was when the dad was tearing down the arch and mentions that he cut and built it from his own trees - I didn't even know I got that until I was editing, and I was totally stoked.

I ran about 5 hours of tape for this - is that more than you'd usually shoot?

Travis Cossel · June 26th, 2008, 01:25 PM

Maybe you're getting burned out because you feel you have to shoot EVERYTHING and then have to sort through EVERYTHING to find what you want. I couldn't watch the whole thing because it's quite long and I still have to get work done here today, but it seemed fine to me. It's not my style (more docu than cinematic) but there's nothing wrong with that. There are couples out there for either style.

I used to film more like you are doing. I would film constantly in the hopes of catching all of those soundbytes and special moments. I now film in a much more cinematic style. I still try to catch things, but it's not priority #1 for me anymore. Priority #1 for me is getting/creating shots that will move the viewer emotionally when they watch it later.

Dave Blackhurst · June 26th, 2008, 02:32 PM

Phil -
This probably has to do with your philosophy about shooting - I'm in the "shoot everything" camp myself, but I find that it makes it more painful in the edit bay when you have to chop out the drek, which is time consuming.

Worse yet is the scene that seems so perfect but just doesn't fit, and you choke the livin' daylights out of yourself trying to keep it off the "cutting room floor"...

I've learned a lot about "editing" by watching the extras that are on many DVD's nowdays - you get to see the exact agony described above, often in gory detail... sometimes you want to yell at the screen "you shoulda left it in!!!!" as you watch the outtakes and things that didn't make the final cut.

One of the most difficult challenges as a solo shooter/editor/director/producer (is your hat rack full yet?) is you don't have the creative assistance and input that a "big time" production has... there's a reason those credits roll for a while after the flick is over!

Hope maybe this will help, you're not alone!

Philip Gioja · June 26th, 2008, 03:23 PM

Thanks guys for the comments. Dave, do you have any work posted somewhere online? I think maybe part of it for me is that I feel like I'm doing things differently than everything else that I see, so I feel like it's not 'good' or whatever, but maybe if I had some other good solid examples of doc-style weddings it might help me feel better about my own work. Dunno...

Mike Williams · July 2nd, 2008, 08:33 PM

In my top all time favs.

http://www.dmbvp.com/video/adayinthelife.wmv

I got this from the KORN edit thread. Click on it from there it's at the bottom of page two in that thread. I think this is such an amazing piece in that it has a great build up of the couples character and then great "cinamatic" shots. Overall the closest thing to a real wedding movie I have seen yet. The audio is amazing as well.

Worth a look. I have been trying to view it again but it won't let me. I know what you mean by burned out but watching guys like the ones that post here usually gives me some fresh ideas.

June 26th, 2008, 12:18 PM	#6
Terry Esslinger Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sacramento, Elk Grove. Calif Posts: 306	I liked this couple, They were a videographers dream, especially if you were going to do it documentary style. The bouquet toss was priceless and the cake chase was fun. This was probably too long to post here but I waited it out and watched the whole thing and was rewarded because I did. Technically maybe some of the scenes were a little shaky, no glidecam shots (I don't have one either), maybe could have used some color work, and maybe the audio needed some additional miking. But I think this is quite represenattive of the documentary style and the couple should really enjoy it. You have provided them with a lasting memory and should be proud. To keep yourself interested maybe you should try a glidecam, or doing something in a different editing style (see http://www.cube-edit.co.il/cube.htm) not that that style is better, just different (and a lot more post work which you could probably never get paid for). Just looking for a way to challange yourself to renew the fire which sounds like it is dwindling. Good luck. __________________ Puttin the wet stuff on the red stuff!

June 26th, 2008, 01:25 PM	#8
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	Maybe you're getting burned out because you feel you have to shoot EVERYTHING and then have to sort through EVERYTHING to find what you want. I couldn't watch the whole thing because it's quite long and I still have to get work done here today, but it seemed fine to me. It's not my style (more docu than cinematic) but there's nothing wrong with that. There are couples out there for either style. I used to film more like you are doing. I would film constantly in the hopes of catching all of those soundbytes and special moments. I now film in a much more cinematic style. I still try to catch things, but it's not priority #1 for me anymore. Priority #1 for me is getting/creating shots that will move the viewer emotionally when they watch it later. __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

June 24th, 2008, 11:55 PM	#1
Philip Gioja Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Piper City, IL Posts: 350	Looking for some feedback... Hi - I don't do this very often but I just finished this piece a couple weeks ago and was looking for some feedback. http://www.centerstreetproductions.c...ateAndMatt.mov Part of the reason I'm posting this is because I've been getting a bit burned out and am trying to decide if I should raise my prices or quit the wedding business completely and go after corporate work. I really liked this piece though, and I can't decide what I should do. Thanks guys!

June 26th, 2008, 08:19 AM	#2
Philip Gioja Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Piper City, IL Posts: 350	Bummer... I didn't think it was as bad as all that... (-;

June 26th, 2008, 09:06 AM	#3
Alastair Brown Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow/Scotland Posts: 626	Not bad.....just LONG! Probably too long to hold our attention. I think most stuff put up for critique here is about the 3min mark, whereas this is more like the whole lot. How about trying to post a cut down version?

June 26th, 2008, 09:52 AM	#4
Philip Gioja Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Piper City, IL Posts: 350	I guess that's one of the things that I've been questioning and have noticed on this board - everyone always posts 3 minute music video style highlights reels, but I feel like to get to know the couple for real you really do need some time to develop the story and hear them out. I guess there are some long dancing sections, etc, that could be cut down to make a quick review more palatable, so I'll take a look at that again and see what I can do.

June 26th, 2008, 11:25 AM	#5
Zach Stewart Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 176	I agree - not bad, but not my style. Its more of the documentary approach which is cool but I would go crazy if I had to record EVERYTHING waiting on the little sound bites that make those moments special. Also, I think most of the clients I work with like the fact that we are almost invisible the day of and with the docu style it requires more hands on interaction the whole time. The footage could use some CC and Grading to make it pop but good job overall. I thought the editing and story was fine.

June 26th, 2008, 12:29 PM	#7
Philip Gioja Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Piper City, IL Posts: 350	"I would go crazy if I had to record EVERYTHING waiting on the little sound bites that make those moments special." I totally understand your sentiment there -- takes a lot of patience. I really love it when I get them though. My favorite in this one was when the dad was tearing down the arch and mentions that he cut and built it from his own trees - I didn't even know I got that until I was editing, and I was totally stoked. I ran about 5 hours of tape for this - is that more than you'd usually shoot?

June 26th, 2008, 02:32 PM	#9
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Phil - This probably has to do with your philosophy about shooting - I'm in the "shoot everything" camp myself, but I find that it makes it more painful in the edit bay when you have to chop out the drek, which is time consuming. Worse yet is the scene that seems so perfect but just doesn't fit, and you choke the livin' daylights out of yourself trying to keep it off the "cutting room floor"... I've learned a lot about "editing" by watching the extras that are on many DVD's nowdays - you get to see the exact agony described above, often in gory detail... sometimes you want to yell at the screen "you shoulda left it in!!!!" as you watch the outtakes and things that didn't make the final cut. One of the most difficult challenges as a solo shooter/editor/director/producer (is your hat rack full yet?) is you don't have the creative assistance and input that a "big time" production has... there's a reason those credits roll for a while after the flick is over! Hope maybe this will help, you're not alone!

June 26th, 2008, 03:23 PM	#10
Philip Gioja Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Piper City, IL Posts: 350	Thanks guys for the comments. Dave, do you have any work posted somewhere online? I think maybe part of it for me is that I feel like I'm doing things differently than everything else that I see, so I feel like it's not 'good' or whatever, but maybe if I had some other good solid examples of doc-style weddings it might help me feel better about my own work. Dunno...

July 2nd, 2008, 08:33 PM	#11
Mike Williams Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USVI Posts: 232	In my top all time favs. http://www.dmbvp.com/video/adayinthelife.wmv I got this from the KORN edit thread. Click on it from there it's at the bottom of page two in that thread. I think this is such an amazing piece in that it has a great build up of the couples character and then great "cinamatic" shots. Overall the closest thing to a real wedding movie I have seen yet. The audio is amazing as well. Worth a look. I have been trying to view it again but it won't let me. I know what you mean by burned out but watching guys like the ones that post here usually gives me some fresh ideas.