MiniDisc Recorders

Torajima Watanabe · July 23rd, 2003, 06:29 AM

I know a lot of people recommend wireless mics, but they're a bit too expensive for me at this time. Any reason not to use a small, cheap portable recorder with a clip on mic? Hide the mic on the groom, stick the recorder in his inside coat pocket, and you're ready to go...

For that matter, why not get Sony's new MZB-100 (small portable business recorder with built in stereo microphone), and hide it inside the podium?

Anyone try using one of these yet?

Glen Elliott · July 23rd, 2003, 10:16 AM

Ya know I was always curious as to how/what mini discs were and how people were incorporating them into wedding videography. Excuse my ignorance but the last I heard of mini discs was several years ago- I thought they phased out, apparently not.

So what are they? Little micro recorders that have an optional lapel mic? How's the quality- and how do you import the audio into your NLE?

Torajima Watanabe · July 23rd, 2003, 10:42 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Glen Elliott : Ya know I was always curious as to how/what mini discs were and how people were incorporating them into wedding videography. Excuse my ignorance but the last I heard of mini discs was several years ago- I thought they phased out, apparently not.

So what are they? Little micro recorders that have an optional lapel mic? How's the quality- and how do you import the audio into your NLE? -->>>

Mini Discs haven't been phased out, they're still used by a lot of audio professionals, much the way DAT is still used. And Sony and Sharp still make consumer models as an alternative to mp3 players.

As to what they are... minidiscs are a small recordable disc encased in a cartridge. It is a compressed format, and in the early days minidiscs had a reputation for sounding thin and brittle, but those days have long past. On modern players, most people can't tell the difference between audio recorded on a CD and an mini-disc. Minidisc certaintly sounds better than your average mp3...

I personally love the format, and have replaced my tape decks with minidisc recorders.

Some portable models contain mic in jacks, and I figure you can attach a lapel mic to them.

Portable models don't have digital out, so you'll need to import the audio thru the analog jacks or use a stand alone md deck with optical out.

Alturo Nguyen · July 24th, 2003, 12:57 PM

md is, to keep things simple, a lossy format

they are still hyped up, and audio people keep buying them

a nomad mp3 jukebox, or any other device that records directly is better choice bar none, because it can record uncompressed wav files... just make sure if you find something cheaper than a nomad, it does so.. 16bit/48khz is dat quality, and dat's should be gone with minidiscs, but people still pay $800 USED for them...

marantz makes pmd-680 pmd-690 and pmd-670, solid state flash card/ IBM microdrive (4gb) recorders

the 670 is the latest, doesn't go for over $700 anywhere. even though the older 680 just sold for 800+ on ebay

these shouldn't cost this much either, it just doesn't cost that much to mfg... but still better to buy than a new or used dat

if you're using an xlr mic you'll need an adapte with md or mp3 recorders

http://www.core-sound.com/
says their hardware for PDA 24/96 is ready, just waiting on software development

lmk what you go with, or if you find alternatives....

Glen Elliott · July 24th, 2003, 01:59 PM

What sort of model/brand minidisc recorder do wedding videographers use when they want to capture the vows. I'm assuming it's got to be of a smaller, more compact design that can fit in the coat pocket of the groom. I'm also assuming that there are portable units like this that have a lav. mic option.

My other main concern is the aspect of capturing it analog. Capturing audio from the camera is great because it's digital to digital- I just can't see going out of my way to capture good audio on the vows only to capture it via analog.

Nathan Gifford · July 24th, 2003, 03:40 PM

People have used MDs as recorders. Your biggest problem is synchronizing the audio. To synchronize you use a clapboard while your camera is rolling. When you import the audio into your NLE you will be able to see the peak when the clapboard claps.

One of the downsides is that everytime you stop the camera you must resynchronize the MDs and cameras.

Torajima Watanabe · July 24th, 2003, 05:38 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Alturo Nguyen : md is, to keep things simple, a lossy format

they are still hyped up, and audio people keep buying them

a nomad mp3 jukebox, or any other device that records directly is better choice bar none, because it can record uncompressed wav files... just make sure if you find something cheaper than a nomad, it does so.. 16bit/48khz is dat quality, and dat's should be gone with minidiscs, but people still pay $800 USED for them... -->>>

Yes, MD is a lossy format... but in double blind tests, most people can't tell the difference between audio recorded on CDs and audio recorded on MiniDiscs.

The Nomad is a better choice? Maybe for some people, but not for me. And apparently, not for a lot of other audio professionals. I wouldn't discount DAT either... there an awful lot of feature laden DAT decks aimed at audio Pros. And they do things the Nomad (and other mp3 players for that matter), simply can't do...

But yes, a $2000 DAT deck is probably overkill if you are just taping a wedding.

Robert Mann Z. · July 24th, 2003, 10:58 PM

i have to second the nomad choice, i picked one up after reading an article about it in dv mag, it cost me 250, plus an extra batt for 30 bucks...

i use it to record bands at bars for promotion material, sometimes i can plug into the bands mixing board sometimes i have to hook up a directional to it...

i use to use a sharp mt15 mini disc rec, great little tool with built in gain and digital vu...problems i had was recording a plus hour set, means switching the disc...

also with the nomad i have 20 gigs to play around with and 1394 port to spit it out, so i'm able to get my stuff into my laptop 88x as fast as using the md (1x speed)...

battery life is about 22hours play but more like 10 with rec on constantly, and it has built in vu and gain,

to sum it up what i like most is upload speed, i can start recording very early becuase of disk space an Batt life, finally file quality pcm uncompressed...

i hope this helps

Torajima Watanabe · July 25th, 2003, 04:46 AM

The Nomad now has a firewire jack? I didn't know that... USB transfers were one of the reasons I stayed away from it to begin with.

But have they made it any smaller? The last Nomad I looked at was the size of a CD walkman, too big for my use. Now if Apple would just release an iPod with recording capabilities and mic in...

Joe Mclean · July 25th, 2003, 07:02 PM

Robert, what kind if mic do you use with the nomad? Do you need any kind of adapter? Also, how does the sound quality compare with minidisk?

Thx

<<<-- Originally posted by Robert Mann Z. : i have to second the nomad choice, i picked one up after reading an article about it in dv mag, it cost me 250, plus an extra batt for 30 bucks...

i use it to record bands at bars for promotion material, sometimes i can plug into the bands mixing board sometimes i have to hook up a directional to it...

i use to use a sharp mt15 mini disc rec, great little tool with built in gain and digital vu...problems i had was recording a plus hour set, means switching the disc...

also with the nomad i have 20 gigs to play around with and 1394 port to spit it out, so i'm able to get my stuff into my laptop 88x as fast as using the md (1x speed)...

battery life is about 22hours play but more like 10 with rec on constantly, and it has built in vu and gain,

to sum it up what i like most is upload speed, i can start recording very early becuase of disk space an Batt life, finally file quality pcm uncompressed...

i hope this helps -->>>

Robert Mann Z. · July 25th, 2003, 09:04 PM

all types so far shure pg81, shure sm58, senn evo 100 wireless, direct input from a mixxing board...

basically i use xlr > mini jack cables same as my minidisk, the quality on the nomad is much better, this really comes in handy when edting tracks, or applying any effects...

Joe Mclean · July 25th, 2003, 10:10 PM

How about if you're not using a mixing board? Can you use an xlr > mini jack cable straight into the nomad? Can you do that with the minidisk too? Do you need a pre-amp if you are not coming from a sound board?

Thx for responding by the way..............

<<<-- Originally posted by Robert Mann Z. : all types so far shure pg81, shure sm58, senn evo 100 wireless, direct input from a mixxing board...

basically i use xlr > mini jack cables same as my minidisk, the quality on the nomad is much better, this really comes in handy when edting tracks, or applying any effects... -->>>

Robert Mann Z. · July 26th, 2003, 07:50 AM

Joe,

In either case you can use a xlr > mini jack cable, i do all the time, with zero issues, the nomad as does my minidisk player have adjustable gain, so i set it and forget it...

i don't use my nomad as my primary source of audio, but it's nice to have....

Joe Mclean · July 26th, 2003, 09:03 AM

I'm seriously looking at the nomad, but I'm a little confused. Here is a quote from someone over at the dv.com asking about the nomad:

"I ask because I was researching the Nomad Jukebox as a recorder and found out a lot of people seem to use it for recording music. They all said the same thing- you have to use a pre-amp or "battery box" to record. The info was sort of vague, they all mentioned something to the effect that just hooking up a mic to it was not a good idea, ony if the mic was "pre-amplified". "
Here is a quote from Jay Rose over at the dv.com forums responding to the question:

"Devices like the Nomad look for a signal at -10 dBV. Your AT mic, and most other models, puts out about -50 dBu. This is the same whether the mic is phantom or battery, condenser or dynamic.

So somewhere, you need about 42 dB of gain to get that mic into the Nomad."

That's why I asked about the pre-amp, but you say you go straight into your minidisk and nomad with zero issues.

This is why I'm confused. Am I understanding you correctly? Here is a link to the thread I was refferring to http://www.dv.com/forums/showReplies.jhtml?sid=1&fid=3&tid=78300003

thx

Robert Mann Z. · July 26th, 2003, 06:45 PM

joe,

i will post some samples on my site for you to listen to, i may be doing it wrong, but if it ain't broke i ain't going to fix it...

give me some time...

July 23rd, 2003, 06:29 AM	#1
Torajima Watanabe Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 28	MiniDisc Recorders - Good choice for Weddings? I know a lot of people recommend wireless mics, but they're a bit too expensive for me at this time. Any reason not to use a small, cheap portable recorder with a clip on mic? Hide the mic on the groom, stick the recorder in his inside coat pocket, and you're ready to go... For that matter, why not get Sony's new MZB-100 (small portable business recorder with built in stereo microphone), and hide it inside the podium? Anyone try using one of these yet?

July 24th, 2003, 03:40 PM	#6
Nathan Gifford Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tickfaw, LA Posts: 1,217	People have used MDs as recorders. Your biggest problem is synchronizing the audio. To synchronize you use a clapboard while your camera is rolling. When you import the audio into your NLE you will be able to see the peak when the clapboard claps. One of the downsides is that everytime you stop the camera you must resynchronize the MDs and cameras. __________________ Nathan Gifford Southern Cyclist Magazine & Productions For quick answers try our Search! To see me and Rob Lohman click here

July 23rd, 2003, 10:16 AM	#2
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Ya know I was always curious as to how/what mini discs were and how people were incorporating them into wedding videography. Excuse my ignorance but the last I heard of mini discs was several years ago- I thought they phased out, apparently not. So what are they? Little micro recorders that have an optional lapel mic? How's the quality- and how do you import the audio into your NLE?

July 23rd, 2003, 10:42 AM	#3
Torajima Watanabe Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 28	<<<-- Originally posted by Glen Elliott : Ya know I was always curious as to how/what mini discs were and how people were incorporating them into wedding videography. Excuse my ignorance but the last I heard of mini discs was several years ago- I thought they phased out, apparently not. So what are they? Little micro recorders that have an optional lapel mic? How's the quality- and how do you import the audio into your NLE? -->>> Mini Discs haven't been phased out, they're still used by a lot of audio professionals, much the way DAT is still used. And Sony and Sharp still make consumer models as an alternative to mp3 players. As to what they are... minidiscs are a small recordable disc encased in a cartridge. It is a compressed format, and in the early days minidiscs had a reputation for sounding thin and brittle, but those days have long past. On modern players, most people can't tell the difference between audio recorded on a CD and an mini-disc. Minidisc certaintly sounds better than your average mp3... I personally love the format, and have replaced my tape decks with minidisc recorders. Some portable models contain mic in jacks, and I figure you can attach a lapel mic to them. Portable models don't have digital out, so you'll need to import the audio thru the analog jacks or use a stand alone md deck with optical out.

July 24th, 2003, 12:57 PM	#4
Alturo Nguyen Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 52	md is, to keep things simple, a lossy format they are still hyped up, and audio people keep buying them a nomad mp3 jukebox, or any other device that records directly is better choice bar none, because it can record uncompressed wav files... just make sure if you find something cheaper than a nomad, it does so.. 16bit/48khz is dat quality, and dat's should be gone with minidiscs, but people still pay $800 USED for them... marantz makes pmd-680 pmd-690 and pmd-670, solid state flash card/ IBM microdrive (4gb) recorders the 670 is the latest, doesn't go for over $700 anywhere. even though the older 680 just sold for 800+ on ebay these shouldn't cost this much either, it just doesn't cost that much to mfg... but still better to buy than a new or used dat if you're using an xlr mic you'll need an adapte with md or mp3 recorders http://www.core-sound.com/ says their hardware for PDA 24/96 is ready, just waiting on software development lmk what you go with, or if you find alternatives....

July 24th, 2003, 01:59 PM	#5
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	What sort of model/brand minidisc recorder do wedding videographers use when they want to capture the vows. I'm assuming it's got to be of a smaller, more compact design that can fit in the coat pocket of the groom. I'm also assuming that there are portable units like this that have a lav. mic option. My other main concern is the aspect of capturing it analog. Capturing audio from the camera is great because it's digital to digital- I just can't see going out of my way to capture good audio on the vows only to capture it via analog.

July 24th, 2003, 05:38 PM	#7
Torajima Watanabe Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 28	<<<-- Originally posted by Alturo Nguyen : md is, to keep things simple, a lossy format they are still hyped up, and audio people keep buying them a nomad mp3 jukebox, or any other device that records directly is better choice bar none, because it can record uncompressed wav files... just make sure if you find something cheaper than a nomad, it does so.. 16bit/48khz is dat quality, and dat's should be gone with minidiscs, but people still pay $800 USED for them... -->>> Yes, MD is a lossy format... but in double blind tests, most people can't tell the difference between audio recorded on CDs and audio recorded on MiniDiscs. The Nomad is a better choice? Maybe for some people, but not for me. And apparently, not for a lot of other audio professionals. I wouldn't discount DAT either... there an awful lot of feature laden DAT decks aimed at audio Pros. And they do things the Nomad (and other mp3 players for that matter), simply can't do... But yes, a $2000 DAT deck is probably overkill if you are just taping a wedding.

July 24th, 2003, 10:58 PM	#8
Robert Mann Z. Skyonic New York Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 614	i have to second the nomad choice, i picked one up after reading an article about it in dv mag, it cost me 250, plus an extra batt for 30 bucks... i use it to record bands at bars for promotion material, sometimes i can plug into the bands mixing board sometimes i have to hook up a directional to it... i use to use a sharp mt15 mini disc rec, great little tool with built in gain and digital vu...problems i had was recording a plus hour set, means switching the disc... also with the nomad i have 20 gigs to play around with and 1394 port to spit it out, so i'm able to get my stuff into my laptop 88x as fast as using the md (1x speed)... battery life is about 22hours play but more like 10 with rec on constantly, and it has built in vu and gain, to sum it up what i like most is upload speed, i can start recording very early becuase of disk space an Batt life, finally file quality pcm uncompressed... i hope this helps

July 25th, 2003, 04:46 AM	#9
Torajima Watanabe Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 28	The Nomad now has a firewire jack? I didn't know that... USB transfers were one of the reasons I stayed away from it to begin with. But have they made it any smaller? The last Nomad I looked at was the size of a CD walkman, too big for my use. Now if Apple would just release an iPod with recording capabilities and mic in...

July 25th, 2003, 07:02 PM	#10
Joe Mclean New Boot Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 6	Robert, what kind if mic do you use with the nomad? Do you need any kind of adapter? Also, how does the sound quality compare with minidisk? Thx <<<-- Originally posted by Robert Mann Z. : i have to second the nomad choice, i picked one up after reading an article about it in dv mag, it cost me 250, plus an extra batt for 30 bucks... i use it to record bands at bars for promotion material, sometimes i can plug into the bands mixing board sometimes i have to hook up a directional to it... i use to use a sharp mt15 mini disc rec, great little tool with built in gain and digital vu...problems i had was recording a plus hour set, means switching the disc... also with the nomad i have 20 gigs to play around with and 1394 port to spit it out, so i'm able to get my stuff into my laptop 88x as fast as using the md (1x speed)... battery life is about 22hours play but more like 10 with rec on constantly, and it has built in vu and gain, to sum it up what i like most is upload speed, i can start recording very early becuase of disk space an Batt life, finally file quality pcm uncompressed... i hope this helps -->>>

July 25th, 2003, 09:04 PM	#11
Robert Mann Z. Skyonic New York Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 614	all types so far shure pg81, shure sm58, senn evo 100 wireless, direct input from a mixxing board... basically i use xlr > mini jack cables same as my minidisk, the quality on the nomad is much better, this really comes in handy when edting tracks, or applying any effects...

July 25th, 2003, 10:10 PM	#12
Joe Mclean New Boot Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 6	How about if you're not using a mixing board? Can you use an xlr > mini jack cable straight into the nomad? Can you do that with the minidisk too? Do you need a pre-amp if you are not coming from a sound board? Thx for responding by the way.............. <<<-- Originally posted by Robert Mann Z. : all types so far shure pg81, shure sm58, senn evo 100 wireless, direct input from a mixxing board... basically i use xlr > mini jack cables same as my minidisk, the quality on the nomad is much better, this really comes in handy when edting tracks, or applying any effects... -->>>

July 26th, 2003, 07:50 AM	#13
Robert Mann Z. Skyonic New York Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 614	Joe, In either case you can use a xlr > mini jack cable, i do all the time, with zero issues, the nomad as does my minidisk player have adjustable gain, so i set it and forget it... i don't use my nomad as my primary source of audio, but it's nice to have....

July 26th, 2003, 09:03 AM	#14
Joe Mclean New Boot Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 6	I'm seriously looking at the nomad, but I'm a little confused. Here is a quote from someone over at the dv.com asking about the nomad: "I ask because I was researching the Nomad Jukebox as a recorder and found out a lot of people seem to use it for recording music. They all said the same thing- you have to use a pre-amp or "battery box" to record. The info was sort of vague, they all mentioned something to the effect that just hooking up a mic to it was not a good idea, ony if the mic was "pre-amplified". " Here is a quote from Jay Rose over at the dv.com forums responding to the question: "Devices like the Nomad look for a signal at -10 dBV. Your AT mic, and most other models, puts out about -50 dBu. This is the same whether the mic is phantom or battery, condenser or dynamic. So somewhere, you need about 42 dB of gain to get that mic into the Nomad." That's why I asked about the pre-amp, but you say you go straight into your minidisk and nomad with zero issues. This is why I'm confused. Am I understanding you correctly? Here is a link to the thread I was refferring to http://www.dv.com/forums/showReplies.jhtml?sid=1&fid=3&tid=78300003 thx

July 26th, 2003, 06:45 PM	#15
Robert Mann Z. Skyonic New York Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 614	joe, i will post some samples on my site for you to listen to, i may be doing it wrong, but if it ain't broke i ain't going to fix it... give me some time...