A clip from a Moscow, Russia wedding 4min

Oleg Kalyan · June 5th, 2008, 01:00 AM

Carl, thank you!
I used (for this wedding shoot) Canon A1 as main camera, and Canon HV20 as secondary, with semi fish eye wide adapter by Raynox. HV20 shot progressively.

Dror Levi · June 7th, 2008, 02:50 PM

Hi there.
You know I considered your latest video clips to be one of the best one I have seen here.
I think you are very talented and I love the way you put your videos together.
This video is kinda confusing as far as were you going with it.
I don’t think the music fits the video as well I think there is not enough of close-ups like you usually do.
Last, I think there is too much of camera movement, it is ok to have steady shot as well.
I did not mean to sound harsh with my title but seeing your previous video clips made me think you can do much better.
I would love to see your future movies.
Again, I think you do an amazing video clips.

Andy Mace · June 8th, 2008, 09:23 PM

Hi Oleg, I just came across your post and have to say I like your work very much. It does seem a little busy but that's the effect you're going for and you've done a great job. My only complaint is the music. The fade is very disruptive and the pieces do not complement one another. Other than that, I say keep up the good work! Andy

Oleg Kalyan · June 9th, 2008, 10:56 AM

Dror and Andy

Appreciate your comments, compliments,
I will keep on working on improving my wedding videos,

I may tighten up this one as well.

Thanks again!

Chris P. Jones · June 9th, 2008, 10:57 PM

what did the clients think? what do other clients think when you show them this clip?

jones

Oleg Kalyan · June 10th, 2008, 04:36 AM

Chris, thanks for asking,
this clip is a part of a Wedding Film, the clients may not even show the clip, skip, it's in DVD menu.

Usually the clients go for my creative ideas in editing, shooting.

Consider, it's done in a short period of time o wedding day and they get something artistic in addition to more documentary storytelling of their wedding day video.

Do you have a comment?

Chris P. Jones · June 10th, 2008, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg Kalyan

this clip is a part of a Wedding Film, the clients may not even show the clip, skip, it's in DVD menu.

I see, so this is something outside the main documentation of the day. Something different and shorter to show off your editing skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg Kalyan

Do you have a comment?

My comment is just more questions, and along the lines of business rather than artistic.

While most may give you a critique on your editing techniques (which are rather fancy indeed - well done!), as I become an old fogey (another term for you to research :->), I tend to want producers to focus back on their clients and what sells their work to clients.

Is it editing techniques (client likes it because it is fancy), delivery time (client likes it because it is delivered quickly), quantity (client likes it because it is a mountain of footage or because it is short and sweet)?

I would guess that you enjoy editing this type of piece as it gives you a chance to show off more of your talent. What part of your talent, though, sells? Will the client be just as happy and give you referrals if this piece weren't included?

jones

Oleg Kalyan · June 11th, 2008, 03:45 AM

Chris,
I think the clients like most of what we as a wedding videographers/producers give to them... in simple documentary form or more creative dynamic style editing, some colleagues use stedicam, some use mini 35mm adapter...some use crane...

there is no direct need in diversity of styles and tools, as I mentioned probably most of the clients will be happy with well shot video of their wedding day without fancy stuff...

the need to look for a new way/style is in creative process itself,

in "art" there is no place for repetition, a pattern, as soon as it's obvious, it's not an art anymore, so my idea is to bring something different every time to "a client",
I realize that in essence what we do is not art form but rather repetitive patterns of
shooting/editing within restricted confines of a wedding day,

still, every time we do a wedding video, there is a chance to give to a piece a little of your artistic vision, although limited, yet, there is a place to look for novelty.
that's how I see it,

Chris P. Jones · June 13th, 2008, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg Kalyan

in "art" there is no place for repetition, a pattern, as soon as it's obvious, it's not an art anymore,

I never studied art, so that's an interesting philosophy. I have never heard it put that way before.

Are you saying for the pursuit to be remain art that it doesn't matter so much that there is a pattern, but that that pattern not be recognizable?

For example, J.S. Bach's Inventions to my ear sound like art, but they are based on well calculated patterns and progressions. Are they art to my untrained ear but not to someone who detects the pattern?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg Kalyan

so my idea is to bring something different every time to "a client"

I look forward to seeing more! You are the Rachmaninoff of wedding video!

jones

Travis Cossel · June 13th, 2008, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg Kalyan

in "art" there is no place for repetition, a pattern, as soon as it's obvious, it's not an art anymore

Yeaaah, I don't think I can agree with that. Then again, the debate on "what is" and "what isn't" art isn't something I want to get into because it's usually a pretty circular argument based solely on an various individuals' opinions.

Oleg Kalyan · June 13th, 2008, 11:45 PM

ОК, lets leave "what is art" aside, although I think few of us see what we do just as a
pattern based activity in making videos.

"J.S. Bach's Inventions to my ear sound like art, but they are based on well calculated patterns and progressions."
I think Bach in his Inventions "invented" : ), calculated many new musical forms, so did Mozart and probably every other great composer, musician
Novelty that's what we are talking about! Calculating novelty is a must, it's done through senses, reason, inspiration....

"A wedding" is a predictable event, with little variation in story/script, still what most of us videographers do, is present it using our personal vision in shooting and editing, in choice of a music, style, etc.

I'd like to compare ( in a sense of making) wedding videos to movies, every time an audience want to see, experience emotions and that's what drives to go to theaters, to see often same story told through new visuals, yet having meaningful/strong emotional experience.

What drives limited audience to watch wedding video again and again? The universal metaphor of couple relationship, that what makes a private wedding to be of interest to many people beyond the couple, their friends and relatives,
Authenticity of emotions attracts, and predictability of form reduces the interest.

In wedding videos IMO, we have to follow the criteria of creating a meaningful emotional experience and keep it in interesting for and eye in ever evolving form of storytelling...

Just some random thoughts on philosophy of making a wedding video!

(To also clarify it to myself)

Travis Cossel · June 14th, 2008, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg Kalyan

"A wedding" is a predictable event, with little variation in story/script, still what most of us videographers do, is present it using our personal vision in shooting and editing, in choice of a music, style, etc.

Anyone who thinks a wedding is a "predictable event" hasn't shot enough weddings. Just kidding. d;-) Actually, there is some definite truth to that. Even though weddings typically have traditions that are similar from one to another, I've never really felt that a wedding was "predictable". Part of the stress and challenge of a wedding is it's "unpredictableness".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg Kalyan

"A wedding" is a predictable event, with little variation in story/script, still what most of us videographers do, is present it using our personal vision in shooting and editing, in choice of a music, style, etc.

Okay, now to really address this quote. I think the biggest problem with videographers today is that they actually believe this part: "little variation in story/script". Although specific events and traditions might be similar from wedding to wedding, I think the best videographers are the one's that figure out how to tell the story behind THAT COUPLE through those events and traditions. I think most videographers tell the overlying story of what happened, but don't really take the time and energy to get into the underlying story of how it happened FOR THE COUPLE.

Seun Osewa · June 15th, 2008, 02:45 AM

There's just one problem with your excellent video, and that one problem is responsible for all the complaints on this thread. The editing is fast and the music is slow. Your video is basically perfect. All you need to do is look for some fast, heavy, (but romantic) rock music to match it.

Oleg Kalyan · June 15th, 2008, 12:15 PM

Travis, thank you!
I share a lot of what you write, that a healthy discussion indeed,
Getting into as you put it "how it happened FOR THE COUPLE", I find very intriguing and fascinating for videographers and in this sense "Directors", we look for a "Context" within
predictable "Text" of a wedding.

Seun, thank you, I may change the song or cut this promo to one song as suggested,
when I have time, worst, I will keep all the comments for future work considerations!

Colin McDonald · June 15th, 2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg Kalyan

ОК, lets leave "what is art" aside, although I think few of us see what we do just as a
pattern based activity in making videos.

"J.S. Bach's Inventions to my ear sound like art, but they are based on well calculated patterns and progressions."
I think Bach in his Inventions "invented" : ), calculated many new musical forms, so did Mozart and probably every other great composer, musician

Bach's 2 and 3 part Inventions are simple binary form (so no new "form" as such) but it is what Bach does with and within that structure that sets him apart from the many others who use the same basic plan. A bit like your take on a wedding....

(snip)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg Kalyan

"A wedding" is a predictable event, with little variation in story/script, still what most of us videographers do, is present it using our personal vision in shooting and editing, in choice of a music, style, etc.

I'd like to compare ( in a sense of making) wedding videos to movies, every time an audience want to see, experience emotions and that's what drives to go to theaters, to see often same story told through new visuals, yet having meaningful/strong emotional experience.

What drives limited audience to watch wedding video again and again? The universal metaphor of couple relationship, that what makes a private wedding to be of interest to many people beyond the couple, their friends and relatives,
Authenticity of emotions attracts, and predictability of form reduces the interest.

Perhaps this is why so many of us enjoy watching your videos ( apart from the magnificent technique).

June 5th, 2008, 01:00 AM	#16
Oleg Kalyan Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: MOSCOW Posts: 860	Carl, thank you! I used (for this wedding shoot) Canon A1 as main camera, and Canon HV20 as secondary, with semi fish eye wide adapter by Raynox. HV20 shot progressively. Last edited by Oleg Kalyan; June 5th, 2008 at 06:10 AM.

June 7th, 2008, 02:50 PM	#17
Dror Levi Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Pembroke Pines FL Posts: 331	I think you can do better Hi there. You know I considered your latest video clips to be one of the best one I have seen here. I think you are very talented and I love the way you put your videos together. This video is kinda confusing as far as were you going with it. I don’t think the music fits the video as well I think there is not enough of close-ups like you usually do. Last, I think there is too much of camera movement, it is ok to have steady shot as well. I did not mean to sound harsh with my title but seeing your previous video clips made me think you can do much better. I would love to see your future movies. Again, I think you do an amazing video clips.

June 8th, 2008, 09:23 PM	#18
Andy Mace Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 39	Hi Oleg, I just came across your post and have to say I like your work very much. It does seem a little busy but that's the effect you're going for and you've done a great job. My only complaint is the music. The fade is very disruptive and the pieces do not complement one another. Other than that, I say keep up the good work! Andy

June 9th, 2008, 10:56 AM	#19
Oleg Kalyan Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: MOSCOW Posts: 860	Dror and Andy Appreciate your comments, compliments, I will keep on working on improving my wedding videos, I may tighten up this one as well. Thanks again!

June 9th, 2008, 10:57 PM	#20
Chris P. Jones Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Waco, Texas Posts: 89	what did the clients think? what do other clients think when you show them this clip? jones

June 10th, 2008, 04:36 AM	#21
Oleg Kalyan Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: MOSCOW Posts: 860	Chris, thanks for asking, this clip is a part of a Wedding Film, the clients may not even show the clip, skip, it's in DVD menu. Usually the clients go for my creative ideas in editing, shooting. Consider, it's done in a short period of time o wedding day and they get something artistic in addition to more documentary storytelling of their wedding day video. Do you have a comment?

June 11th, 2008, 03:45 AM	#23
Oleg Kalyan Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: MOSCOW Posts: 860	Chris, I think the clients like most of what we as a wedding videographers/producers give to them... in simple documentary form or more creative dynamic style editing, some colleagues use stedicam, some use mini 35mm adapter...some use crane... there is no direct need in diversity of styles and tools, as I mentioned probably most of the clients will be happy with well shot video of their wedding day without fancy stuff... the need to look for a new way/style is in creative process itself, in "art" there is no place for repetition, a pattern, as soon as it's obvious, it's not an art anymore, so my idea is to bring something different every time to "a client", I realize that in essence what we do is not art form but rather repetitive patterns of shooting/editing within restricted confines of a wedding day, still, every time we do a wedding video, there is a chance to give to a piece a little of your artistic vision, although limited, yet, there is a place to look for novelty. that's how I see it,

June 13th, 2008, 11:45 PM	#26
Oleg Kalyan Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: MOSCOW Posts: 860	ОК, lets leave "what is art" aside, although I think few of us see what we do just as a pattern based activity in making videos. "J.S. Bach's Inventions to my ear sound like art, but they are based on well calculated patterns and progressions." I think Bach in his Inventions "invented" : ), calculated many new musical forms, so did Mozart and probably every other great composer, musician Novelty that's what we are talking about! Calculating novelty is a must, it's done through senses, reason, inspiration.... "A wedding" is a predictable event, with little variation in story/script, still what most of us videographers do, is present it using our personal vision in shooting and editing, in choice of a music, style, etc. I'd like to compare ( in a sense of making) wedding videos to movies, every time an audience want to see, experience emotions and that's what drives to go to theaters, to see often same story told through new visuals, yet having meaningful/strong emotional experience. What drives limited audience to watch wedding video again and again? The universal metaphor of couple relationship, that what makes a private wedding to be of interest to many people beyond the couple, their friends and relatives, Authenticity of emotions attracts, and predictability of form reduces the interest. In wedding videos IMO, we have to follow the criteria of creating a meaningful emotional experience and keep it in interesting for and eye in ever evolving form of storytelling... Just some random thoughts on philosophy of making a wedding video! (To also clarify it to myself)

June 15th, 2008, 02:45 AM	#28
Seun Osewa Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: West Africa Posts: 255	There's just one problem with your excellent video, and that one problem is responsible for all the complaints on this thread. The editing is fast and the music is slow. Your video is basically perfect. All you need to do is look for some fast, heavy, (but romantic) rock music to match it.

June 15th, 2008, 12:15 PM	#29
Oleg Kalyan Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: MOSCOW Posts: 860	Travis, thank you! I share a lot of what you write, that a healthy discussion indeed, Getting into as you put it "how it happened FOR THE COUPLE", I find very intriguing and fascinating for videographers and in this sense "Directors", we look for a "Context" within predictable "Text" of a wedding. Seun, thank you, I may change the song or cut this promo to one song as suggested, when I have time, worst, I will keep all the comments for future work considerations!