Doesn't the sde render the highlights obsolete? at DVinfo.net

Jason Magbanua · May 26th, 2008, 07:38 AM

With this level or quality and done with such a crew, it almost seems like it steps out of the realm of an SDE and just becomes a highlights clip similar to what you might deliver after the wedding. With multiple shooters, two machines, and one editor from the preps on- I think that is probably more time than a lot of us spend on a highlights clip- which is a great workflow you guys have put together to really give you the option to take it even further.

_____________________________

I picked this quote from Patrick in Raphael's most recent SDE thread. I was thinking there was little point to a highlights clip if a studio can deliver very well done sdes.

I don't know if I've just gotten used to it but I find SDEs easier to do than highlights. More than anything, I think it's the time pressure. Something that would be hard to set (personally speaking) on my own time versus the impending screening in a couple of hours.

In simpler terms, I'd rather get over it in the weekend during the shoot when I'm clocking in the hours anyway rather than capture and edit on a weekday when it's time to relax.

One point of disagreement though is that I think a highlights clip edited after the fact takes more time and resources than an sde.

Your thoughts?

Brandon Potthoff · May 26th, 2008, 08:23 AM

I do a lot of SDE and I have to say that I always easier than doing one later. I know that is crazy sounding but it is the truth. One reason I think that I am in the zone I am getting the shots, editing the shots getting the shots I think will look good with the song as I go. I only have one other person at weddings with me to help me carry things in/out get set up and run the second camera angle. And it can get very crazy!
Pottsie

Ryan Koral · May 26th, 2008, 10:56 AM

i've done a handful of same day edits and it seems like whenever there is pressure involved for me - i'm ONLY trying to go after what i think i'll use - and all the shots and events are all so fresh - that sometimes i think it would be easier to mostly deliver sde's, too. and like you said - you're pretty much done after the wedding.

you're on your way to living the dream :)

Ethan Cooper · May 26th, 2008, 12:14 PM

I'm a slooooow editor. I wonder if a guy like me could pull off a SDE?

What amazes me about some of these SDE's is the effects work that goes into them. I'd be lucky to piece together straight cuts in time to show something, but some of the ones I've seen lately have effects scattered throughout that don't look half bad for being so rushed. My hat's off to you SDE guys.

Brandon Potthoff · May 27th, 2008, 10:34 AM

It also depends on the number of people that are working on the video some people will have 3-4 people devoted just to video with one person there to edit all day so say that your shoot starts at 800 then you get to start editing rith then you may get up to 12 hours to edit.
Brandon

Ethan Cooper · May 27th, 2008, 10:45 AM

Back to the original question about if SDE's render highlights obsolete, I'd say they do only if the quality of the SDE is at least equal to that of your company's usual highlight.
If I were not completely happy with my SDE (I dont do them, but for argument sake) then I'd re-work it and polish it up a bit to make the official highlight for the DVD. I don't see a problem with treating the SDE like a rough draft to be fine tuned at a later date.

Many of these SDE's look better than the highlights I'm currently offering clients, so that's not an issue for those guys.

Patrick Moreau · May 27th, 2008, 11:17 AM

I think the way in which you put the two together has a big impact on how they are perceived by the client, and whether they are seen as being quite different things in the end.

We have a basic SDE package with 2 shooters and no highlights in your main video. We then offer a premium SDE option which includes an extra person all day and you get a highlights with your main video as well. The idea here is that we have a lot more time for the SDE and a lot more footage to do something different with the highlights. I generally advise clients on doing two different styles and try to make the highlights much deeper in terms of chronology and storytelling.

In an SDE, sometimes you might throw a clip in that isn't perfect, or the color grading might be close to what you wanted, or even the audio your laying over top just kinda fits but with a highlights I think you can take all of those to the next level and have something that is more cohesive. I'm not sure if this does more for us, as the artist, or the client - who certainly won't notice all of this small things we have a tendency to agonize over.

I certainly agree that when doing a highlights we can micromanage things to death and take much longer than an SDE to produce. If the StillMotion crew could produce an SDE that rivaled one of our best highlights in terms of the overall story and depth, we would certainly discontinue the highlights in SDE packages- but I think we are far from there so far.

Another thing I wonder about- if adding an SDE removes the highlights, does that lessen the value of what your selling as it is now seen as more of a replacement as opposed to just an addition?

Patrick

Travis Cossel · May 27th, 2008, 11:33 AM

Something to consider is that an SDE only shows the wedding day up through the ceremony. It leaves out the reception. A highlights video showcases the entire wedding day, including the reception. I know in my area the reception is often more of the focus of the day than the ceremony, so I think highlights still have a place.

Patrick Moreau · May 27th, 2008, 12:35 PM

Good point Travis, and I would certainly agree.

However, many people like JMags are really pushing the SDE structure and often seem to have quite a bit of reception footage in there.

Personally, I try to keep it to a minimum as it usually just happened, but I also don't put too much in the highlights.

Raphael Jamil Pranga · May 27th, 2008, 05:02 PM

I think alvin would agree that instead of editing a highlights clip during weekdays, he'd rather finish it just in one day rather than capturing the clips all over again.
I know some peeps who are doing a 6-9 mins SDE there in Manila which is longer than what we usually do. I believe that SDE's can be the new highlights if you just summarize everything from the preps to the reception but of course that depends on your showing time or where they place you in the program of the reception. Here in the Philippines, I really don't know videographers who are still doing the highlights since most of them are already into SDEs.
I guess the answer to Jmag's question depends on your market and of course, the ones doing it. ^_^

Kenny Shem · May 28th, 2008, 06:31 AM

Contrary to what Travis had said, over here in my area, the dinner reception is generally, boring. We do not hold first dance, parent's dance, rarely do you see games being played too. Everybody just sit down and eat. I would therefore agree that having a highlight is abundant since a SDE already show more than 95% of the whole day happenings. However for those of you who shoot interesting interactions during reception, highlight is a good thing to have.

May 26th, 2008, 07:38 AM	#1
Jason Magbanua Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Manila Posts: 317	Doesn't the sde render the highlights obsolete? With this level or quality and done with such a crew, it almost seems like it steps out of the realm of an SDE and just becomes a highlights clip similar to what you might deliver after the wedding. With multiple shooters, two machines, and one editor from the preps on- I think that is probably more time than a lot of us spend on a highlights clip- which is a great workflow you guys have put together to really give you the option to take it even further. _____________________________ I picked this quote from Patrick in Raphael's most recent SDE thread. I was thinking there was little point to a highlights clip if a studio can deliver very well done sdes. I don't know if I've just gotten used to it but I find SDEs easier to do than highlights. More than anything, I think it's the time pressure. Something that would be hard to set (personally speaking) on my own time versus the impending screening in a couple of hours. In simpler terms, I'd rather get over it in the weekend during the shoot when I'm clocking in the hours anyway rather than capture and edit on a weekday when it's time to relax. One point of disagreement though is that I think a highlights clip edited after the fact takes more time and resources than an sde. Your thoughts?

May 26th, 2008, 08:23 AM	#2
Brandon Potthoff Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Springfield, Il Posts: 63	Sde I do a lot of SDE and I have to say that I always easier than doing one later. I know that is crazy sounding but it is the truth. One reason I think that I am in the zone I am getting the shots, editing the shots getting the shots I think will look good with the song as I go. I only have one other person at weddings with me to help me carry things in/out get set up and run the second camera angle. And it can get very crazy! Pottsie

May 26th, 2008, 10:56 AM	#3
Ryan Koral New Boot Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Royal Oak, MI Posts: 21	i've done a handful of same day edits and it seems like whenever there is pressure involved for me - i'm ONLY trying to go after what i think i'll use - and all the shots and events are all so fresh - that sometimes i think it would be easier to mostly deliver sde's, too. and like you said - you're pretty much done after the wedding. you're on your way to living the dream :) __________________ _____________________ www.epicmotion.com www.epicmotion.com/blog

May 26th, 2008, 12:14 PM	#4
Ethan Cooper Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 1,400 Images: 5	I'm a slooooow editor. I wonder if a guy like me could pull off a SDE? What amazes me about some of these SDE's is the effects work that goes into them. I'd be lucky to piece together straight cuts in time to show something, but some of the ones I've seen lately have effects scattered throughout that don't look half bad for being so rushed. My hat's off to you SDE guys. __________________ ∅ -Ethan Cooper

May 27th, 2008, 10:34 AM	#5
Brandon Potthoff Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Springfield, Il Posts: 63	# of people It also depends on the number of people that are working on the video some people will have 3-4 people devoted just to video with one person there to edit all day so say that your shoot starts at 800 then you get to start editing rith then you may get up to 12 hours to edit. Brandon

May 27th, 2008, 10:45 AM	#6
Ethan Cooper Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 1,400 Images: 5	Back to the original question about if SDE's render highlights obsolete, I'd say they do only if the quality of the SDE is at least equal to that of your company's usual highlight. If I were not completely happy with my SDE (I dont do them, but for argument sake) then I'd re-work it and polish it up a bit to make the official highlight for the DVD. I don't see a problem with treating the SDE like a rough draft to be fine tuned at a later date. Many of these SDE's look better than the highlights I'm currently offering clients, so that's not an issue for those guys. __________________ ∅ -Ethan Cooper

May 27th, 2008, 11:17 AM	#7
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	I think the way in which you put the two together has a big impact on how they are perceived by the client, and whether they are seen as being quite different things in the end. We have a basic SDE package with 2 shooters and no highlights in your main video. We then offer a premium SDE option which includes an extra person all day and you get a highlights with your main video as well. The idea here is that we have a lot more time for the SDE and a lot more footage to do something different with the highlights. I generally advise clients on doing two different styles and try to make the highlights much deeper in terms of chronology and storytelling. In an SDE, sometimes you might throw a clip in that isn't perfect, or the color grading might be close to what you wanted, or even the audio your laying over top just kinda fits but with a highlights I think you can take all of those to the next level and have something that is more cohesive. I'm not sure if this does more for us, as the artist, or the client - who certainly won't notice all of this small things we have a tendency to agonize over. I certainly agree that when doing a highlights we can micromanage things to death and take much longer than an SDE to produce. If the StillMotion crew could produce an SDE that rivaled one of our best highlights in terms of the overall story and depth, we would certainly discontinue the highlights in SDE packages- but I think we are far from there so far. Another thing I wonder about- if adding an SDE removes the highlights, does that lessen the value of what your selling as it is now seen as more of a replacement as opposed to just an addition? Patrick __________________ site // www.stillmotion.ca blog // www.stillmotionblog.com edu // www.stillmotionexperience.com

May 27th, 2008, 11:33 AM	#8
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	Something to consider is that an SDE only shows the wedding day up through the ceremony. It leaves out the reception. A highlights video showcases the entire wedding day, including the reception. I know in my area the reception is often more of the focus of the day than the ceremony, so I think highlights still have a place. __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

May 27th, 2008, 12:35 PM	#9
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	Good point Travis, and I would certainly agree. However, many people like JMags are really pushing the SDE structure and often seem to have quite a bit of reception footage in there. Personally, I try to keep it to a minimum as it usually just happened, but I also don't put too much in the highlights. __________________ site // www.stillmotion.ca blog // www.stillmotionblog.com edu // www.stillmotionexperience.com

May 27th, 2008, 05:02 PM	#10
Raphael Jamil Pranga Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Iloilo City, Philippines Posts: 104	I think alvin would agree that instead of editing a highlights clip during weekdays, he'd rather finish it just in one day rather than capturing the clips all over again. I know some peeps who are doing a 6-9 mins SDE there in Manila which is longer than what we usually do. I believe that SDE's can be the new highlights if you just summarize everything from the preps to the reception but of course that depends on your showing time or where they place you in the program of the reception. Here in the Philippines, I really don't know videographers who are still doing the highlights since most of them are already into SDEs. I guess the answer to Jmag's question depends on your market and of course, the ones doing it. ^_^

May 28th, 2008, 06:31 AM	#11
Kenny Shem Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 163	Contrary to what Travis had said, over here in my area, the dinner reception is generally, boring. We do not hold first dance, parent's dance, rarely do you see games being played too. Everybody just sit down and eat. I would therefore agree that having a highlight is abundant since a SDE already show more than 95% of the whole day happenings. However for those of you who shoot interesting interactions during reception, highlight is a good thing to have.